My Browser Builds (Part 4)

[NotHereToPlayGames]

5 hours ago, Mathwiz said:

I've written a fair number of very simple Web pages, and I absolutely cannot understand why any Web developer would rely as heavily on JavaScript as most do for tasks the Web server itself would be much more suited to do.

Agreed.  I suspect it has to do more with "ad revenue".  (ps, the narcissism reply was NOT directed at you specifically or I would have quoted you directly...  just saying MSFN likes to "always" think developers are "out to get them"...  moving on...)

I'm not quite sure how the "ad revenue" works.  But the web sites that you have written (it's been several years since I have), I suspect they don't use third-party "resources"?

I've often wondered why my BANKING web site (if I allowed it to!) pings FACEBOOK.  Then there's the obvious googleanalytics ping (again, if I allowed it to).

Then there's the countless dozen of "cdn" web sites that are also attempted connections (that my banking web sites work even without).

Another common one of late is "techlab-cdn".

[VistaLover]

15 hours ago, roytam1 said:

SM-2.53.x is based on gecko56, and SM-2.57.x is based on gecko60

... Thanks ; so, does that mean the Wiki article I referenced is at fault?

Edited January 30, 2023 by VistaLover

[roytam1]

39 minutes ago, VistaLover said:

... Thanks ; so, does that mean the Wiki article I referenced is at fault?

I would say: yes.

SeaMonkey does have reason for its minor version numbers. $GeckoVersion - 3 = SeaMonkey's minor version.

Edited January 30, 2023 by roytam1

[diuco]

Hi there! I'd like to install some browser that will work in the long term with windows 7, and i'm therefore searching if some even support windows xp and will last me longer. I've found my options are mypal, newmoon and kmeleon all based on the gecko engine, am I right? Which one is best and how are they different?

Will these browsers age well being so niche and with few users or are there soon be bugs, incompatibilities and problems... Will they be able to keep up with ever more complex future webpages? Do the browsers get automatically updated? What languages are they available in?

Thanks a lot.

[NotHereToPlayGames]

15 minutes ago, diuco said:

Will they be able to keep up with ever more complex future webpages?

No.

[mina7601]

2 hours ago, diuco said:

Which one is best and how are they different?

@Mathwiz wrote about the differences for New Moon and K-Meleon:

As for which browser is the best, well, test each browser, and see which one is the best for you. It depends how you use them. Mypal's difference is that 28.xx.x and 29.xx.x branch have a user interface from old version of Firefox, while the 68.xx.x branch is based on Firefox 68.12.0esr.

2 hours ago, diuco said:

mypal

There are two versions of Mypal, the old 28.xx.x and 29.xx.x branch, and the new 68.xx.x branch (which can be found here). I personally use the 68.xx.x branch.

2 hours ago, diuco said:

I've found my options are mypal, newmoon and kmeleon all based on the gecko engine, am I right?

Mypal, yes, it's based on Gecko. K-Meleon and New Moon, no, they're both based on Goanna engine. (Correct me if I am wrong for Pale/New Moon, as I personally don't use it)

2 hours ago, diuco said:

What languages are they available in?

Mypal is available in English (United States), but you can install your own language in it: For the old 28.xx.x and 29.xx.x branch, you can get them from here, For 68.xx.x branch, you can get your language from here, and instructions on how to apply your downloaded language (in xpi file format) to 68.xx.x is here (note: the site is Japanese, but, use a translator to translate the website). K-Meleon is available in the following languages: English (United States), German, Spanish, French, Italian, Russian, Chinese (China). New Moon is available in English (United States), but you can install your own language, read this post to know how.

2 hours ago, diuco said:

Do the browsers get automatically updated?

New Moon and K-Meleon are updated every week by roytam1. Mypal, well, it's on a slower pace by Feodor2.

Welcome to MSFN, by the way.

Edited January 31, 2023 by mina7601

[diuco]

Thanks a lot!

[UCyborg]

On 1/30/2023 at 2:18 AM, Mathwiz said:

Believe it or not, I sort of agree. Certainly with the "slow" part. It's especially ironic given that Pale Moon started out as simply Firefox  optimized for performance on Windows.

Yeah, then the amount of JS exploded and we are where we are. That Nextcloud JS is quite banal, I asked on PM forum, basically:

class p {
    bus;
    constructor(e) {
        "function" == typeof e.getVersion && l()(e.getVersion())
            ? c()(e.getVersion()) !== c()(this.getVersion()) && d.warn("Proxying an event bus of version " + e.getVersion() + " with " + this.getVersion())
            : d.warn("Proxying an event bus with an unknown or invalid version"),
            (this.bus = e);
    }
    getVersion() {
        return "3.0.2";
    }
    subscribe(e, t) {
        this.bus.subscribe(e, t);
    }
    unsubscribe(e, t) {
        this.bus.unsubscribe(e, t);
    }
    emit(e, t) {
        this.bus.emit(e, t);
    }
}

Remove bus outside of constructor because it's already defined in the constructor:

class p {
    constructor(e) {
        "function" == typeof e.getVersion && l()(e.getVersion())
            ? c()(e.getVersion()) !== c()(this.getVersion()) && d.warn("Proxying an event bus of version " + e.getVersion() + " with " + this.getVersion())
            : d.warn("Proxying an event bus with an unknown or invalid version"),
            (this.bus = e);
    }
    getVersion() {
        return "3.0.2";
    }
    subscribe(e, t) {
        this.bus.subscribe(e, t);
    }
    unsubscribe(e, t) {
        this.bus.unsubscribe(e, t);
    }
    emit(e, t) {
        this.bus.emit(e, t);
    }
}

So for this one:

class m {
    handlers = new Map();
    getVersion() {
        return "3.0.2";
    }
    subscribe(e, t) {
        this.handlers.set(e, (this.handlers.get(e) || []).concat(t));
    }
    unsubscribe(e, t) {
        this.handlers.set(
            e,
            (this.handlers.get(e) || []).filter((e) => e != t)
        );
    }
    emit(e, t) {
        (this.handlers.get(e) || []).forEach((e) => {
            try {
                e(t);
            } catch (e) {
                d.error("could not invoke event listener", e);
            }
        });
    }
}

I think you have to do it like so, put handlers definition in a constructor:

class m {
    constructor() {
        this.handlers = new Map();
    }
    getVersion() {
        return "3.0.2";
    }
    subscribe(s, e) {
        this.handlers.set(s, (this.handlers.get(s) || []).concat(e));
    }
    unsubscribe(s, e) {
        this.handlers.set(
            s,
            (this.handlers.get(s) || []).filter((s) => s != e)
        );
    }
    emit(s, e) {
        (this.handlers.get(s) || []).forEach((s) => {
            try {
                s(e);
            } catch (s) {
                d.error("could not invoke event listener", s);
            }
        });
    }
}

But sure, Pale Moon is bad since it doesn't follow standards.  At least that's what they think. Obviously, in this case, developer really doesn't have it any easier because mainstream Chromium/Firefox allows declaration/definition outside of constructor.

[soggi]

18 hours ago, diuco said:

Hi there! I'd like to install some browser that will work in the long term with windows 7, and i'm therefore searching if some even support windows xp and will last me longer. I've found my options are mypal, newmoon and kmeleon all based on the gecko engine, am I right? Which one is best and how are they different?

Will these browsers age well being so niche and with few users or are there soon be bugs, incompatibilities and problems... Will they be able to keep up with ever more complex future webpages? Do the browsers get automatically updated? What languages are they available in?

Thanks a lot.

Personally, i would recommend to use the latest official Pale Moon on Win7, despite it doesn't support WinXP anymore. Furthermore - if XP support is important - I would recommend New Moon 28 or Serpent 52 over K-Meleon 76 as the latter shares it's basis with New Moon 27, which is behind the possibilities of NM28's basis.

None of @roytam1's builds builds include an automatic update mechanism, you have to replace them with every release by hand.

We will see how well they will age... It mostly depends on which websites are important for you.

16 hours ago, mina7601 said:

New Moon is available in English (United States), but you can install your own language, read this post to know how.

Does it really work? The last time I wanted to use a Pale Moon lang pack in New Moon I had no success.

kind regards
soggi

[IXOYE]

Hi

I can't see the peertube instances on the Roytam1 browsers
is there a solution for this problem?
it works on Chrome

https://instances.joinpeertube.org

Edited January 31, 2023 by IXOYE

[VistaLover]

6 hours ago, IXOYE said:

is there a solution for this problem?

No (the site employs dynamic module import, "import()", very unlikely to be implemented in UXP platform any time soon ) ...

6 hours ago, IXOYE said:

it works on Chrome

... Of course it does!

https://caniuse.com/es6-module-dynamic-import

Edited January 31, 2023 by VistaLover

[mina7601]

56 minutes ago, soggi said:

Does it really work? The last time I wanted to use a Pale Moon lang pack in New Moon I had no success.

What New Moon version (if you remember) were you using at that time?

Edited January 31, 2023 by mina7601

[soggi]

New Moon 28 (and New Moon 27 as "back-up").

It would be great for family members which have problems to understand English, for me it doesn't matter.

kind regards
soggi

Edited January 31, 2023 by soggi

[VistaLover]

6 hours ago, soggi said:

Personally, i would recommend to use the latest official Pale Moon on Win7

"Personally", I'd stick with whatever browser on Win7SP1 is based on Chromium 109 (EoS for that OS), for as long as it still meets my browsing requirements ... ALL the forks to be found here in this thread basically target WinXP/Vista and even the UXP-based ones (NM28/St52) still fall considerably behind, web-compat-wise, Chromium 109 (and are very unlikely to catch up with it in a timely fashion, if ever...).

I'd also keep an eye on the Win7 "communities" and the Chinese browser market (), as was the case with XP until recently , some Chromium 109+ codebase is bound to be backported to Win7... Additionally, there's promise in the air for a "Win7-Extended-Kernel", so not all things are "doom-and-gloom" ...

FWIW, Mozilla Firefox still supports that OS, with no official cut-off date announced yet...

Edited January 31, 2023 by VistaLover

[nicolaasjan]

<offtopic>

@VistaLover, you missed my PM from Jan 10.