AstroSkipper Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Dave-H said: Thank you so much for that! I've actually had Otter Browser installed for years, and I've always kept it up to date, although I never actually use it! It never occurred to me to even try it with the LNER site, but as you say, it works (almost)! It's not quite right, I can't get rid of the cookie warnings for instance, but it's not the horrible mess that it is on 360Chrome. It didn't surprise me that it had failed on Firefox 52.9 ESR, as more and more sites are starting to have problems on that, but not working on 360Chrome 13.5 was a big surprise, and quite worrying! I guess it's a JavaScript problem, but I'm not expert enough on site coding to diagnose that. I didn't perform a deeper check. It seemed to render properly at the first look. Sometimes, a different browser engine helps. Edited July 8, 2022 by AstroSkipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPerceniol Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 I was able to get past the cookies and accept them (gawd, they taste terrible, I'll stick to oatmeal raisin).... V11 and DC Browser the same ... doesn't look good but I don't know what Its supposed to look like; either. Serpent also the same. I've never in my entire (miserable .. kidding, or am I) life used Otter Browser but thank you @AstroSkipper I've downloaded it and will try it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPerceniol Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Dave-H said: It's not quite right, I can't get rid of the cookie warnings <OT> Even though I've been warned, I still enjoy a lorna doone shortbread cookie ... call me a rebel. <OT> 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vidx21 Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) On 7/5/2022 at 1:27 PM, XPerceniol said: I also find: --disable-file-system --disable-gpu ...to be helpful in both 360 and DC Browser. In fact, I use for DC Browser: --no-first-run --disable-file-system --disable-gpu --disable-logging --disable-webg --disable-component-update --disable-background-networking --ssl-version-min=tls1.2 --enable-strict-mixed-content-checking --no-pings Tons of flags that I'll write later today. Overall a better option than V12 IMHO, and maybe (just maybe) the autor will discover a way to update it again We're gonna bring DC Browser back to life, of course, when you are feeling up to it, No rush, just get better and stronger each day and try to detox just little each from from the madness. thanks for flags you provided. "--disable-file-system --disable-gpu" really works in term of memory relief. I can see when a thread of memory release as a tag is closed. I can't find what "--disable-file-system" do it seems disable file sytem file api but nothing in detail. For DC browser update I will be looking forward it. Edited July 9, 2022 by vidx21 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroSkipper Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 6 hours ago, vidx21 said: I can't find what "--disable-file-system" do it seems disable file sytem file api but nothing in detail. Actually, the flag --disable-file-system would have to prevent the access of Chrome apps (and extensions?) to the user's local file system. It seems to be a security option, although then a read and write access of installed apps to the user's local file system wouldn't be possible anymore. Is that the idea? What do you think? I didn't find any details about this flag either, only the description "Disable FileSystem API". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidao Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 19 hours ago, Dave-H said: Thanks, this is very strange. I wonder what they've done to make it so incompatible? Annoying, because I can't use it on any browser on XP now. May be the Browser Kernel was not surport the website 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmccaff1 Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 16 hours ago, XPerceniol said: I was able to get past the cookies and accept them (gawd, they taste terrible, I'll stick to oatmeal raisin).... V11 and DC Browser the same ... doesn't look good but I don't know what Its supposed to look like; either. Serpent also the same. I've never in my entire (miserable .. kidding, or am I) life used Otter Browser but thank you @AstroSkipper I've downloaded it and will try it. Otter Browser is definitely a good option for XP, especially if you like WebKit and/or the Opera 12.x interface...I still like to use the original Opera 12.18 for some lightweight browsing from time to time, but this is a worthy successor to the classic Presto Opera legacy browsers. It has a lot of capabilities that classic Opera lacks (including correctly rendering this forum; in fact, I am writing this reply from the latest stable Otter Browser release with JavaScript enabled!), but is behind other browsers such as the UXP-based ones in other useful features. In general, it's a great browser if you understand WebKit's strengths and weaknesses (it beats Presto in rendering but doesn't quite get up to higher Gecko/UXP/etc. levels) and can live without some of the fancier features you'll find in UXP-based browsers, MyPal 68 and the like. It's also a lot more stable than it used to be, though I can imagine earlier releases may have had speed advantages over the latest builds (though speed ultimately doesn't mean very much if the browser itself isn't particularly stable). Otter Browser gets my stamp of approval (for what VERY little that's worth)! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-H Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Yes, thanks for that. This is off-topic here of course, but I've been very impressed how the developer of Otter has stuck with it all this time. Its updates are few and far between, its user forum is dead, and it seems to now be completely just one person's project. It was of course specifically intended to be a replacement for my much beloved Presto Opera, as was Vivaldi, but the latter went the Chromium route of course, and that was the end of it as far as XP was concerned. It never occurred to me that the LNER site might work in Otter, and when @AstroSkipper pointed it out, I was amazed! As far as this thread is concerned, I'm more concerned that the site won't work in 360Chrome 13.5, and it's the first site that I've seen completely fail to render properly in that browser. I can only assume that the site now needs a Chromium version newer than 86, or there is some JavaScript incompatibility. It's not a site I use very often, but it was certainly fine the last time I used it, so they must have done some code changes. Looking at it in Firefox 102 it looks to me exactly as it did before, so it hasn't actually been redesigned, something's just been done in the background. Can anyone see it correctly in any version of 360Chrome? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Draker Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) On 7/8/2022 at 7:26 PM, Dave-H said: Could someone do me a favour and check out this site for me (it's nothing dodgy, I promise!)? https://www.lner.co.uk/ Dave , it's not a complete mess , but it looks more like if you just switched the java script off. Works fine on chrome 104. This is exactly the same situation with my gym website. EDIT: I also tried MiniBrowser (chrome 87) and the same "mess". Edited July 9, 2022 by D.Draker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-H Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Interestingly it doesn't appear to be a JavaScript problem, which is what it looks like I agree. If I switch JavaScript completely off in Firefox 102 and go to the site it still looks fine, apart from a few missing images. So the poor formatting doesn't appear to be caused by a JavaScript failure. Curiouser and curiouser........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VistaLover Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) On 7/8/2022 at 9:26 PM, Dave-H said: https://www.lner.co.uk/ It's always worked fine before, but now on XP in Firefox 52.9 ESR and more worryingly in 360Chrome 13.5, it's just a mess. On 7/8/2022 at 10:06 PM, Dave-H said: I wonder what they've done to make it so incompatible? Annoying, because I can't use it on any browser on XP now. On 7/8/2022 at 11:55 PM, Dave-H said: but not working on 360Chrome 13.5 was a big surprise, and quite worrying! ... but I'm not expert enough on site coding to diagnose that. 23 hours ago, XPerceniol said: Serpent also the same. 5 hours ago, Dave-H said: I'm more concerned that the site won't work in 360Chrome 13.5, and it's the first site that I've seen completely fail to render properly in that browser. I can only assume that the site now needs a Chromium version newer than 86 4 hours ago, D.Draker said: I also tried MiniBrowser (chrome 87) and the same "mess". 2 hours ago, Dave-H said: the poor formatting doesn't appear to be caused by a JavaScript failure. Curiouser and curiouser........ ... Well, Serpent 52.9.0 is my default browser here (Vista SP2 32-bit); when loading https://www.lner.co.uk I get the mis-rendered page layout everyone else got in this thread... But, as suspected, the root cause is NOT Javascript code per se, but CSS code instead ; the LNER site has been redesigned internally (an uncalled for change just to cater to newer web standards [read Google Chrome and its Firefox sibling]) to use newer CSS code not supported by the XP/Vista browsers mentioned here with regards to this issue... In Serpent's "about:config" internal page, I enabled "layout.css.report_errors" (from false to true), then I opened Web Console (ctrl+shift+k) and loaded the LNER homepage anew; multiple Missing closing ‘)’ in negation pseudo-class ‘,’. Ruleset ignored due to bad selector. CSS errors populated the Web Console output... Doing a search for that specific error, I arrived at: support compound selectors and complex selectors within :not() negation pseudo-class a Bugzilla "bug" first reported on Oct 31st 2013, but only "closed" on Oct 29th 2020 (!) ... The new CSS feature was finally implemented in Mozilla Firefox v84.0+ ... You can read more about that CSS feature in https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/:not and https://css4-selectors.com/selector/css4/negation-pseudo-class/ and https://caniuse.com/css-not-sel-list The "CCS-selector-L4 negation pseudo-class" (the feature now required by the LNER site) has been implemented in Chrome starting with version 88: so that's why that site doesn't render correctly in ALL 360EE versions compatible with XP/Vista... Sad as it might sound, stable Chrome is now at version 103, (most useful) sites will never cease the endless game of catering ONLY to what latest Chrome exclusively supports; backwards compatibility isn't even an after-thought nowadays ... Chromium 86 (fork point of 360EEv13/13.5) is now 17 major versions behind current Google Chrome release branch, it has now started to show its age with regards to WebCompat 2022... Opting not to visit sites optimised for latest Chrome might be one way to deal with the modern web (when on "legacy" browsers supporting XP/Vista), but it's just "sweeping the problem under the rug"; what if it's a site you absolutely have to use, say in order to buy a railway ticket on-line? What if, like me, you don't own an Android device, either? Damn you Google... Edited July 9, 2022 by VistaLover 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotHereToPlayGames Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Dave-H said: Interestingly it doesn't appear to be a JavaScript problem, which is what it looks like I agree. Does not look like a JavaScript problem. You have one (maybe three, based on error console) .css files not being loaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotHereToPlayGames Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 18 minutes ago, VistaLover said: But, as suspected, the root cause is NOT Javascript code per se, but CSS code instead Bingo! I'm just now catching up. Definitely a .css issue. Yahoo websites used to do that all the time. Back then it was a known Firefox FLAW that web designers would utilize ON PURPOSE to force their userbase to use Firefox! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotHereToPlayGames Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 25 minutes ago, VistaLover said: Opting not to visit sites optimised for latest Chrome might be one way to deal with the modern web (when on "legacy" browsers supporting XP/Vista), but it's just "sweeping the problem under the rug" Proxomitron to the rescue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-H Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Thanks so much guys, especially @VistaLover, great detective work! So, it appears that 360Chome 13.5, which I thought would be pretty much OK at least in the short term, already isn't! How would Proxomitron fix this? Certainly using ProxHTTPSProxy seems to make no difference to the problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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