Win7 Pro SP1 64bit PC Developing Problem?

[WalksInSilence]

So you're thinking the original blue screen and forced reset might have damaged a module rather than the other way around? I do use a power surge protector on my PCs and all connected equipment; not as good as a voltage stabiliser or a set up with an Uninterruptible Power Supply but the latter I don't think would have helped in the circumstances. Sudden power drop - unlikely unless you're saying the PC's PSU could have been involved.

I did worry about the PSU when I was building the PC because I decided to stick with the CoolerMaster case supplied one, marked as a CoolerMaster 500W ATX Power Supply RS-500-PCAP-I3. I knew it was an entry level one and the 12V only 360W rail is considered poor but it is still way over spec for what I have on that PC (3rd gen i5/1GB Radeon GPU/16GB RAM, 1 x SSD, 2 x HDDs, 3 x fans, GZ77 MB). Even the most generous calculations of power requirements suggest <350W at full whack.

   

However I'm still thinking that even if a RAM module problem is at the heart of this I'm probably going to have consequential file system errors to sort out.

Edited May 1, 2021 by WalksInSilence

[Dixel]

We can't be certain what caused this . I said it could be {at least} 2 reasons. ESD or spikes. Your PSU (sorry) is not a real 500W PSU . 360W on 12V rails combined is only a 400W PSU. Cooler Master lies , as usual . Actually they all lie , at least most of them . Corsair is on my top liers' list , Cooler Master is on the second . Look here :

https://computerstoreberlin.de/media/image/product/197749/lg/fsp-fortron---source-atx-400pnf-atx-netzteil-400-watt-301919.jpg

This one is a true 400W PSU , and it has 348W on 12V rails and 180W on 5v rails. So again , see how Cooler Master lies . They don't have their own manufacturing lines and they order some cheap OEM units. To be fair , there was ONE somewhat good unit GX 650W (only the model from 2011)

But yet again , it was not made by the Cooler Master itself , they ordered it from an OEM manufacturer , just a bit better manufacturer . 

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/cooler-master-gx650w-bronze/3.html

My favourite PSU is FSP600-80GLN 600W - no failures for many years from several  units I own/owned in various PCs under load. It works very well in different countries : 100/240v . About expensive brands , I've had mixed results with them over the course of my "computer years".

I hate everything from EVGA and Seasonic , yes . Sorry if someone's disagree . No need to argue , I will not change my opinion. 

[WalksInSilence]

In my other desktop which has had way more use than the 'problem' one ie. 3+ years older and used 5:1 more often on a weekly basis I used a bronze certified XFX 450W PSU that has behaved perfectly for now 5 years. That PC is slightly lower spec: similar, actually one generation later, Gigabyte MB and 1GB mildly over-clocked (factory) GPU,  i3 4th generation and only half the RAM but many more fans.

The 450W PSU has proved more than enough for that and suggests even if the Coolmaster "500W" one is only 400W its not going to have been stressed to anywhere near that maximum with what I've been using the 'problem' PC for so far.

However I've always had in mind to upgrade it and to that end I've had a well reviewed EVGA 600W 80+ certified PSU sitting unused for over a year in the bigger replacement case I bought as part of that upgrade project. A 6GB GPU upgrade, being the main raison d'etre.

I'm now thinking that this problem might be the prompt I needed to go ahead with the upgrade project but I want get the PC as it is at least back to normal before doing that.      

[WalksInSilence]

Just a quick update which may help any others coming here in the future with similar PC symptoms.

Used Memtest86 (current version) from disc and as I suspected my from 'new' RAM modules were both good and the MB's four RAM slots all OK too. Quickly identified the erroring 4GB Corsair DDR3 XMS3 module of the two (matched) other ones I'd fitted - tens of thousands of errors reported.

The other module is fine and still works as it should with the two other good ones after three full Memtest runs. But, of course, my RAM is now down to 12GB (3 x 4GB).

Interesting, a bit, is that with just the 'bad' RAM module fitted the PC still booted. I couldn't be bothered to test it any further than that but it shows the module was still functioning, so it was clearly not entirely dead.

I do not think there is any way I'm going to find a single or double pack of perfectly matching DDR3 XMS3 4GB 1600MHz now.

So what to do? Should I replace all the RAM with 4 x 4 new 4GB ones (any make) or buy, at roughly the same price, 2 x 8GB (any make) or see if I can find 2 x 8GB 1600MHz Corsair XMS3 modules and add them to the existing best 2 x 4GB Corsair XMS3 1600MHz ones to give 24GB total?

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by WalksInSilence
typo

[Tripredacus]

You should try to match timing and speed of the memory, and size if you want dual channel. But to be honest, if the purposes you use the computer for are such that you wouldn't notice the memory running at a wrong speed, then it doesn't matter. If you are playing modern games or doing engineering or video editing, then you want to have everything match.

[Dixel]

@WalksInSilence , do not buy Corsair (any items from Corsair) under any circumstances . It failed you already . It failed me a gazillion of times . You can leave the working modues as they are and just buy another matched pair to fit into other slots. Kingston isn't any better , avoid . I's suggest bying Samsung or Hynix made in Korea . Or something from Crucial, like Crucial Ballistix. G.Skill RipJaws are somewhat OK too . Try to choose low latency though.

[WalksInSilence]

I've been using exclusively Corsair XMS3 DDR3 modules in both my desktops; the PC I'm on now has 4 x 2GB ones which have given me no trouble in over 5 years.

However I'll take on board the advice, particular the low latency but that's the problem with the Corsair options now.

The same type XMS3 available currently are all the later 1.5v CL11 type whereas the ones I have are all CL9 v1.65. One of the reasons I was so pleased to find the two used extra 2 x 4GB modules were that they are CL9 1.65v 1600MHz too.

I've actually contacted Gigabyte MB support about this to get the definitive answer on whether they have any qualms about mixed latency configurations. Some MB manufacturers specifically mention that it is not recommended. My Gigabyte manual and the web site do not say anything about that so I thought it worth asking.

The PC concerned is the one I am intending to upgrade for gaming use, that's why I fitted 16GB of RAM. Apart from the GPU I wanted to replace the 120GB SSD too with a much larger one. But if I'm having to to shell out on a full set of matched RAM that's going to have to be put on the back burner.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by WalksInSilence

[Dixel]

@WalksInSilence , 1.65v is a terrible RAM (no wonder , because it is Corsair). Gotta be some awful chips so they need that high voltage . I run Crucial DDR3 1600 with timings 7 (yes , CL7! ) and 1.35 voltage. Even some generic RAM from Samsung should run with 1.5v and CL9. 1.5v and CL9 is kinda default for 1600MHZ RAM.

[WalksInSilence]

Gigabyte Support replied very quickly confirming that they do not recommend mixed latency RAM modules either and also recommend replacing all of them with matched modules.

So the best advice seems to be to do that and go for something other than Corsair.

Disappointing from a financial point of view but if replacing all of the RAM is what's recommended by the MB manufacturer as well I can't argue with it.

Thanks all for the help. 

[Dixel]

@WalksInSilence , you're welcome . I do not know which country you're in , but I think it's not a problem to buy 4 used modules (Samsung or Hynix , even Elpida with Elpida chips is fine) for cheap . Just make sure the chips are "SEC" , marked with SEC (made by Samsung) , or Hynix. Samsung 16 GB (4x4GB) DDR3-1600 PC3-12800U , for example in Germany is about 45-57 Euro with VAT for 4pcs, should be minus 19% (if shipped to the States) , plus delivery. Better look for CL9 or CL10 , quite easy to find and it will be cheaper than those from "famous" brands. You don't need any cooling on the modules with 1.5v, BTW . I couldn't find a CL9 module picture , these ones are CL11 , but it should give you an idea how they look like .

https://computerstoreberlin.de/media/image/product/288228/lg/samsung-16-gb-4x4gb-ddr3-1600-pc3-12800u-m378b5273ch0-ck0-312023.jpg

https://computerstoreberlin.de/Samsung-16-GB-4x4GB-DDR3-1600-PC3-12800-M378B5273DH0-CK0-311679

Note SEC on the chips.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Dixel
typos , again

[WalksInSilence]

Thanks for the further advice, appreciated.

UK BTW.

[Dixel]

5 hours ago, WalksInSilence said:

Thanks for the further advice, appreciated.

UK BTW.

Great Britain (that's what they taught us to call it during my school days) is a good country , indeed , let's hope it stays that way during these dark times . Though electronics is somewhat more expensive. Glad to be of help. BTW , these still can be overclocked in the BIOS , I even suggest to buy DDR3 1333 CL9 or DDR3 1066 CL7 and then change the settings in the bios , no need to add any additional voltage , just play with the settings . For example DDR3 1333 CL9 can work at 1600MHZ , but you shall need to up the timings , change to CL10 (if chips are ok , they won't require more voltage).

[WalksInSilence]

To be pedantic: the full name of the UK is the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", which is a bit of mouthful and why its easier to use UK. Britain ie. British or even Brits is OK too. However the regional nationalists may get a bit cranky if you call the whole country England rather than Britain or the UK.

Only trouble I have with your Samsung RAM recommendation is that the modules are all a bit basic looking. I know that underneath they're much the same but whilst I'm not interested in the garish colours, branding and eccentric heatsink designs I do like the Corsairs XMS3 RAM's clean professional styling. They look the business. The inside of the PC in question isn't as pretty as it could be and although it does not bother me that much my aesthetic taste balks at prospect of installing raw green PCB mounted chips on a predominately electric blue/cyan MB.

 

 

[Dixel]

I totally understand , the advice was based on "Disappointing from a financial point of view". I'm not saying I'm an ancient guru with hundreds of years of experience , but I worked with lots of computers parts since 90's , even though I do not like asian manufactured stuff in general , Samsung is one ot the best these days , honestly . Why ? Too few to choose from . We do not have European manufactured stuff anymore . In the end , they all place orders at OEM plants and then just label the parts. Of course , you may try your luck with Corsair again . 

[jaclaz]

18 hours ago, WalksInSilence said:

The inside of the PC in question isn't as pretty as it could be and although it does not bother me that much my aesthetic taste balks at prospect of installing raw green PCB mounted chips on a predominately electric blue/cyan MB.

I thought I had seen everything on the internet, but I was evidently wrong, very interesting.

Could be an idea for the manufacturers, offering motherboards (and their connectors), Ram sticks, etc. in a limited number of RAL colours.

jaclaz