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My Browser Builds (Part 3)


roytam1
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I had other thing https://github.com/Feodor2/Centaury/ fork of their basilisk. 

Their incursion about i do not inform them how they can obtain a copy of such Source Code Form by reasonable means in a timely manner.

I deleted all executables there, wait what next, maybe it is a point to delete the whole my github to go somewhere else, what do you suggest?

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3 hours ago, feodor2 said:

I had other thing https://github.com/Feodor2/Centaury/ fork of their basilisk. 

Their incursion about i do not inform them how they can obtain a copy of such Source Code Form by reasonable means in a timely manner.

I deleted all executables there, wait what next, maybe it is a point to delete the whole my github to go somewhere else, what do you suggest?

Tobin must think himself very clever to have found a supposedly actionable fault in you not specifying to his satisfaction the exact steps to get the source code (which is in fact available, let's not forget that). Well, since apparently he's now wanting you to remove all his contributions from your code, you could play his game and ask him to provide an exact list of his personal contributions so that you could remove them. If he can't be expected to determine which Github code corresponds to which release version, then surely you can't be expected to hunt down his contributions either. In fact it may not even be possible for you to do so, because the fact that Tobin has commited certain code doesn't necessarily mean that he's the author of that code (as opposed to just copying something over from Mozilla, for example); and some of the code he's authored has very likely been commited by other people, like Moonchild. So, let him provide the list and prove his original authorship if that's the path he wants to take. IANAL (I am not a lawyer), of course, and I don't think his claims have merit, but why not have him(/them all) work for it instead of just trying to intimidate people. ;)

In any case it's very unfortunate that Pale Moon people choose to spend their energy on hounding people for pointless reasons instead of improving the (sadly) increasingly obsolete browser. Mypal and Centaury pose no threat to their IP, they're just hounding you to earn some sort of a "victory" :rolleyes: and feel better about themselves in the face of losing the game in the big picture. (As a sidenote, I feel I should give some small credit to athenian200 for at least not behaving like a petulant child - which can't be said about the other two, especially Tobin. :thumbdown)

All that said, and regardless of this MCP attack, @feodor2, it actually wouldn't hurt you to properly tag your Centaury releases (in the Mypal repo) and provide a source archive for each release. It is indeed pretty inconvenient to have to go by just the commit dates. You absolutely don't deserve their attack, but in a way you gave them the means to try it by being a bit lazy.

Edited by mixit
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On 8/24/2021 at 3:58 PM, feodor2 said:

I had other thing https://github.com/Feodor2/Centaury/ fork of their basilisk. 

Their incursion about i do not inform them how they can obtain a copy of such Source Code Form by reasonable means in a timely manner.

I deleted all executables there, wait what next, maybe it is a point to delete the whole my github to go somewhere else, what do you suggest?

This is what is called a RED HERRING here in the US.

It's an "attempt" at creating a LOOPHOLE in the "license agreement".

Timely manner  --  "I asked for it TWO MINUTES AGO and they haven't replied yet, this is a breach of our license."  NO IT IS NOT, but "timely manner" can mean anything they want it to mean!  Or so they think, try taking that up with a judge.  "Timely manner" can mean ONE YEAR to one judge and ONE MONTH to another.  But it does NOT mean "two minutes" to any judge on the planet!

Reasonable means  --  "I had to click three links instead of one, my time is too valuable to have to click three links!".  Again, try taking that up with a judge, from any continent, from any planet.

 

But anywhoo...  It is extremely sad...

 

 

On 8/24/2021 at 5:45 PM, mixit said:

You absolutley don't deserve their attack, but in a way you gave them the means to try it by being a bit lazy.

I agree!

I do, however, find myself ruling against Roytam on this one.  We're probably not supposed to admit this out loud but please bear with me and allow a brief explanation.

Look at how LONG this "issue" has been ongoing - and 'we' still have a download link with "palemoon" right in the name?

The USERS of Basilisk/Serpent don't even know what to call it!  The download link says basilisk, the about screen says Serpent.

WE know what they are, but the newcomer does not - and that's where this whole thing started, many months ago, with no resolution whatsoever still to this day.

I don't know who Binary Outcast is, but did Roytam releasing BNav axe Binary Outcast's project before he/she was even able to release his/her first beta version?

But on the other hand, I also don't think (but I am no lawyer!) that Roytam has done anything where Tobin/Moonchild could issue a warrant for his arrest else I think they would have by now, that is the way this has all unfolded, the ongoing saga, no resolution whatsoever, no end in sight, ad nauseam.

 

But feodor2 has followed all of those branding rules - from the beginning!

EXCELLENT JOB, feodor2, KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!

Edited by ArcticFoxie
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12 minutes ago, ArcticFoxie said:

EXCELLENT JOB, feodor2, KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!

Yes, absolutely!:worship: I should have emphasized this in my post as well. Don't let them intimidate you into leaving, @feodor2!

Edited by mixit
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1 hour ago, ArcticFoxie said:

but the newcomer

This is XP (which I love, as y'all know)... so, no, there'll not be many "newcomers", in fact, and most "outgoers" are long gone, already. Whoever ventures here from scratch now needs to be very interested, ultra very motivated, and patient, to be able to get anything working (or be a leach who deserves to writher in the sun while starving!) so, no: if one needs spoon feeding, anything earlier than 1x ( :puke: ) is not for them. Let roytam1 worry with meaningful things, not that. As people at old Aston Martin used to say to those who insisted their cars ought to display some indication of what it was in the front: "if one looks at the rearview-mirror and doesn't recognize instantly it's an Aston Martin, they don't deserve to know it!".  :angel

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8 hours ago, XP2003 said:

I don't understand why they don't go proprietary

Because they can't. Unless they rewrite whole engine without using any mozilla code to get rid of MPL2 license.

I do pre-release (there is no point-release) and people should be able to find exact git commit revision that I use to build from my snapshot notes.

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4 hours ago, Montana Slim said:

Ok, I'm interested... where is it?

I'm not @feodor2's spokesperson, but since you're asking me, the source for the latest Centaury release (0.17.0) looks to be at https://github.com/Feodor2/Mypal/archive/b9d3b502ef4786aa77d30e9ace63494422fa00a4.zip

Sorry, too busy atm to properly write up the steps to get there, but I can say that I was able to figure it out without ever asking @feodor2 (or anyone else) about it.

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Mypal source code has ALWAYS been EASY to find!

I personally wouldn't mind a how-to guide on HOW to compile it myself.

You can "claim" that they exist, such as this  --  https://developer.palemoon.org/build/windows/

But has anyone here ever FOLLOWED those instructions  --  they do not work.  I've tried a dozen times in the last two years and I've always failed  :blushing:  :puke:

The Linux instructions might work, but I only dabble in Linux for GUI-something-different-FUN, I can't really "do" anything in it  --  http://developer.palemoon.org/build/linux/

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It's sad to see that the Pale Moon devs have such a toxic attitude, even though they are literally gaining from MyPal financially, seeing as the standard browser in MyPal is DuckDuckGo with Pale Moon tracking

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=palemoon

 

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Sorting of bookmarks is indeed affected by Windows Regional Settings under Windows NT 5.2. The first dropdown list which changes the number formats. I only found 3 locales that behave oddly. Restart of New Moon is needed to effect the changes.

Estonian: S->Z->T

Latvian, Lithuanian: H->Y->I->Y-G

I don't understand the rationale for this. The letter Y does not exist in the official alphabet. Putting it in the middle doesn't make it correct and incompatible with names and brands from other languages. Apparently, in Unicode there are tables for every or most locales because they do in fact sort letters with diacritics differently (with the parent letter, immediately after, or at the end).

The solution is simply to switch to English (United States) and adjust the currency and separator symbols as needed.

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Regarding search engine financial gain, that is interesting indeed.

Not sure how to estimate that "financial gain" - nor is it really any of my business, in my opinion, but there is some public-domain sites ( https://www.sitelike.org/similar/palemoon.org/ ) that do place a "value" which does I suppose at least put things in a little perspective.

google.com = $3,335,302,900

duckduckgo.com = $5,100,900

opera.com = $1,261,700

mozilla.com = $894,900

kmeleonbrowser.org = $451,200

firefox.com = $145,200

mozilla-russia.org = $107,200

msfn.org = $40,700

maxthon.com = $25,900

palemoon.org = $19,000

basilisk-browser.org = $600

browser.360.cn = $100

rtfreesoft.blogspot.com = $0

binaryoutcast.com = $0

mozilla.org = $0

mypal-browser.org = $0

vivaldi.com = $0

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Search engines usually pay browsers to have them added as default, or pay revenue share for any ad revenue generated through searching based on the tag in the URL. The first option is how Firefox tends to get a large amount of funding. [source]

SInce MyPal uses palemoons tag, it could be possible that searching through DuckDuckGo with MyPal ends up positively for Pale Moon. From a purely business perspective, assuming there is a revenue share in place, the more users MyPal would have, the more Pale Moon would benefit as well.

Best case would be that the Pale Moon devs make peace, MyPal continues to grow and we will be able to use a great browser on XP for the coming years :)

Edited by XP2003
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20 hours ago, VistaLover said:

Thanks, but how is this better to browsec-3.16.16 (and 3.16.16.2_unofficial) ? :dubbio:
I visited the link posted (and used machine translation to read it ;) ), that post doesn't make it clear for me...

I then went on to try it in latest St52 [v52.9.0 (2021-08-20) (32-bit)] ; clicking the toolbar button just toggles the extension (and connection) ON/OFF, there's no apparent way I can choose one of the four available "free" locations (NL, SG, UK, US), as the extension always defaults to the Dutch (NL) server... :(

2.0.7 works in Firefox 45-48, NewMoon27, in KM installed but no icon (on/off).

For 3.16.16 - min Firefox 52, NM28.....

In 2.0.7 unofficial changed the storage paths, well, it works.

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