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Why do so many people say staying on older versions of Windows is stupid?


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I see on many, many forums, such as r/windows, the Microsoft discord and even the Linus Tech Tips forums where people mention using 7 or so nowadays and people lose their minds, breaking out in cyber arguments about if its a good or bad idea to keep using them. So I have a question. 

Why do so many people just have problems about older operating systems? As well as that, how many real-people would actually say if 7 or 10 is better? Most of my family says 7 is a lot better. Even a lot of my friends say 7 is better than 10. 

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Brainwashed ...

Or just going with the crowd . I know a guy , who works in IT (coding and scripting, to be precise) . He is kinda good at this , I mean really , no jokes .

But he says Win 10 is OK . It puzzles me. Also , he says Win 7 is utter junk . Doesn't say anything about Vista , never tried , he is young. No older than 28.

On 4/17/2021 at 9:25 PM, Tonny52 said:

how many real-people would actually say if 7 or 10 is better?

To answer the second part , I tried to like Win-7 , it was hugely popular (which is a very bad sign , actually ! A bad omen xD ). Win 7  just doesn't render as good as Vista . CPU utilisation is lower with 7 . Why ? I feel like Win-7 simply caps the programmes , it is slower at start , it writes/reads too much data to HDD , hence SDDs became that popular . So I'm sorry , but I do not share your satisfaction with WIn 7 . I even think Win-7 is a project to boost SDD sales. I have much better FPS with the same drivers with almost all DX9 - DX11 games on Vista . Maybe they (people you talk about) tried to compare win7 and win10 and got better FPS , I dunno. Visually Win8/10 are ugly as hell , I agree. So my answer will be win7 is bad , but don't know how much worse than win 10, or who is worse between the two bad . OK ?

P.S. 

Perhaps you have some real tests to compare Win7-Win10 on the same hardware ? Rendering , games , etc. As for me , I woudn't even touch it ! Even if it will render something faster (I doubt that , though).

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"Because Windows <number of latest windows version here> is way better and works perfectly on me compared windows <number of any previous windows version> and you are just scared of new things and move on and wont understand from security at all"

that same response been used since windows 98 rolled out with it bloated ie4 desktop and many did not like it as response to peoples who used windows 95, then when win98 and 98se and ME got eol and xp and 2k were more mainstream same started again. Soon 2k neared eol and same started insist to it, then xp eol and same argument started again. Same response been out now over 20 years because newer must be better to some.

 

For most basic users there has not been notable changes in windows since 95, most notable changes are to power users like me. Windows 98 was windows 95 with ie4 and active desktop, Windows ME was rebranded Windows 98 with few ui changes and usb driver and dos mode removed. Windows 2000 was real improved due usb and NTFS. Windows XP was polished Windows 2000 expect improved compability to legacy applications, new management features and few others that mattered me and of course Iiked new themes it could support. Windows vista was originally developed around Server 2003 and had some improvements mostly to 64bit support while remaining decent compability. Windows 7 was polished windows vista sp2 with few under hood changes. Any Windows version after that forgot all good UI design guidelines by forcing beginner mobile ui to desktop pc. Most peoples just believe what Microsoft and media says them from Millions of hackers attacking to every old Windows version out there and also see no issue upgrade since all they do is play few new AAA titles, watch cat videos on chrome and got no legacy apps used.

 

I say best is to ignore them. Lot peoples do not like anything old technology since believe those are bad compared new ones. I am using oldshcool nokia phone from 2003 (6600) and peoples think it is stupid and insecure and how hackers will hijack it but I do not care. It can make calls and got 40.3kbp/s mobile data incase need plus can swap battery myself (unlike on new ones). Same said from me running windows 7 and xp instead of "teh latest and greatest windows 10" but I use it anyway since can do all type of modern things on it thanks to this board and it developers (newmoon, mailnews etc.). Someday peoples will hopefully realise the facts on that newer is not always better

Edited by Mr.Scienceman2000
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4 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

.. thanks to this board and it developers (newmoon, mailnews etc.). Someday peoples will hopefully realise the facts on that newer is not always better

I agree completely - many thanks to MSFN and developers like @roytam1 (as well as other developers here) that work hard at what they do :yes:

PS: I also use an old LG Flip Phone and I've no intention to buy a smart phone.

Edited by XPerceniol
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19 hours ago, Dixel said:

Perhaps you have some real tests to compare Win7-Win10 on the same hardware ? Rendering , games , etc. As for me , I woudn't even touch it ! Even if it will render something faster (I doubt that , though).

I actually have. From passmark scores that I did on 7, 8.1, and 10 2004:

7 was the best for CPU, 2nd best for RAM usage, worst for disk usage, and 2nd for graphics.
8.1 was the best for graphics, 2nd best for CPU, and best for RAM usage. 8.1 had the best overall score.
10 was the worst in pretty much everything else. Only thing that can redeem itself is the better program compatibility. 

In my case, the only thing that 10 gives me is that running a billion windows open at once runs laggy on 7 with Aero transparency enabled. Aero was a little bit of a hog even though it looked really nice. Probably the problems with 8 and newer is that Microsoft stopped caring about it, and just started piling more stuff onto it. Thats why I call it, Inconsistency Hell. Sad to see that the days of consistency are numbered now.

Use whatever works for you. I don't care if you use MS-DOS, Me or Vista. I use 7 and 10 because those are the two that i'm used to.

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7 hours ago, Tonny52 said:

I actually have. From passmark scores that I did on 7, 8.1, and 10 2004:

7 was the best for CPU, 2nd best for RAM usage, worst for disk usage, and 2nd for graphics.
8.1 was the best for graphics, 2nd best for CPU, and best for RAM usage. 8.1 had the best overall score.
10 was the worst in pretty much everything else. Only thing that can redeem itself is the better program compatibility. 

was different big enough for cover possible margin error?

8 hours ago, Tonny52 said:

In my case, the only thing that 10 gives me is that running a billion windows open at once runs laggy on 7 with Aero transparency enabled. Aero was a little bit of a hog even though it looked really nice.

I never had that problem with my system despite having 29gb of my 32gb ram used by VM, firefox instances, steam etc. Sounds like you are running out of vram or ram. What gpu and how  much ram I had similar issues when was low on resources. It is eye candy aero bad side that it needs video memory to run.

 

8 hours ago, Tonny52 said:

Use whatever works for you. I don't care if you use MS-DOS, Me or Vista. I use 7 and 10 because those are the two that i'm used to.

^this. I started computer use earlier than you back when there was windows 9x still and NT 4.0 was out so my preferences are Windows 98-windows XP and sometimes vista then windows 7 to few modern titles. For you starting use computers was likely win7 era atleast sounds like it.

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8 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

I never had that problem with my system despite having 29gb of my 32gb ram used by VM, firefox instances, steam etc. Sounds like you are running out of vram or ram. What gpu and how  much ram I had similar issues when was low on resources. It is eye candy aero bad side that it needs video memory to run.

4GB GDDR5 VRAM, 16GB DDR4 2400 RAM. I did actually figure out that its one program causing it. Whenever Discord is in the foreground or open at all, and playing back someones screen / camera, it causes Aero to lag down to 30 FPS. With it minimized, Aero goes up to 75hz. 

8 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

^this. I started computer use earlier than you back when there was windows 9x still and NT 4.0 was out so my preferences are Windows 98-windows XP and sometimes vista then windows 7 to few modern titles. For you starting use computers was likely win7 era atleast sounds like it.

I started using computers around the Vista era, but we still used XP at the time. We moved to 7 on the family PC in 2011, but I can remember using XP for a year before then, but can barely remember that. It was mainly 2013+ when I started fully remembering and enjoying it, so yes, Windows 7 era.

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People just repeat what they are told and this is especially true if they do not fully understand how something works. The root of this comes from sales pitches from companies from years ago. Even old versions of Windows have had advertisements like "most secure ever" which implies the predecessor is not secure once the new version comes out. Also people conflate installing updates or the ability to get new updates with security. They know some bad thing happened to someone online and there is an update, and if you have the update you will be protected from that thing. But people do not actually look at what the update is, or the CVE or anything like that. They have no idea whether or not the update even has anything to do with their operating environment or how they use their system. This is why I never understand people who just go an install all of the updates, or worse, brag about installing all of the updates. No one needs all those updates, but people will just put them all in there anyways because it is easier than learning how their computer or OS actually works and being able to determine which updates they actually need.

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1 minute ago, Tonny52 said:

4GB GDDR5 VRAM, 16GB DDR4 2400 RAM. I did actually figure out that its one program causing it. Whenever Discord is in the foreground or open at all, and playing back someones screen / camera, it causes Aero to lag down to 30 FPS. With it minimized, Aero goes up to 75hz.

that is new bug to me. What gpu? I need to try it on my system to see if get same. Can you use something like afterburner or gpu-z to check vram usage while lags?

3 minutes ago, Tonny52 said:

I started using computers around the Vista era, but we still used XP at the time. We moved to 7 on the family PC in 2011, but I can remember using XP for a year before then, but can barely remember that. It was mainly 2013+ when I started fully remembering and enjoying it, so yes, Windows 7 era.

sounds familiar story. I used windows 95 and windows 98 on my dad computers and took me few years before got my first computer (cannot recall exact year but was long ago). It had Pentium 4 2.80, whopping 1gb of ddr ram, ati 9800 and windows XP. I played games and run Virtual machines on Virtual pc 2004 and 2007 on it. That computer originally drove me study to IT technician since wanted understand more from computers and programs and never looked back since. Was best decision I made

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4 minutes ago, Tripredacus said:

This is why I never understand people who just go an install all of the updates, or worse, brag about installing all of the updates. No one needs all those updates, but people will just put them all in there anyways because it is easier than learning how their computer or OS actually works and being able to determine which updates they actually need.

some peoples does that even on enterprise environments and it caused headache to me few times. All systems with in domain messed up thanks to someone accepting not even neccessary feature update on wsus server that broke start menu on all systems.

Edited by Mr.Scienceman2000
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

that is new bug to me. What gpu? I need to try it on my system to see if get same. Can you use something like afterburner or gpu-z to check vram usage while lags?

NVIDIA GTX 1050 Ti. I can check the VRAM usage. I wonder if an alternative Discord client would fix this. 

 

5 minutes ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

some peoples does that even on enterprise environments and it caused headache to me few times. All systems with in domain messed up thanks to someone accepting not even neccessary feature update on wsus server that broke start menu on all systems

I know the IT guys at my school, and I've asked them why they updated to Windows 10 so fast (they updated in April 2016) and they mentioned to me how they've always updated fast (they went to 7 in April 2010) because some of the administrators run software that needs to run the latest version of Windows, and instead of having different OSes deployed they just run the same thing on everything to keep it all together, but have mentioned to me that they are considering not updating as often because of how often Windows 10 updates come. They have a lot of consistency issues, where they gave me exact percentages; 60% are on 1909, 20% are on 1809, 10% are on 1709, 5% are on 1607, 4% are on 1511, and 1% are still on Windows 7. They also told me that with Windows 7, they had better control over the computers and generally had less tickets. They told me though that updating their servers is the least of their priority, with most of them still being on 2012 R2 and a few being on 2008 R2. They haven't adopted Win10 in their servers yet.

Edited by Tonny52
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3 minutes ago, Tonny52 said:

NVIDIA GTX 1050 Ti. I can check the VRAM usage. I wonder if an alternative Discord client would fix this.

if you do not need screenshare try run it inside firefox or chrome. I run my discord inside firefox and can still use voice, search and others. One thing you may try before it is disable discord hardware accerlation. It been causing gpu driver freezing on my windows 7 system before switched to browser.

5 minutes ago, Tonny52 said:

I know the IT guys at my school, and I've asked them why they updated to Windows 10 so fast (they updated in April 2016) and they mentioned to me how they've always updated fast (they went to 7 in April 2010) because some of the administrators run software that needs to run the latest version of Windows, and instead of having different OSes deployed they just run the same thing on everything to keep it all together, but have mentioned to me that they are considering not updating as often because of how often Windows 10 updates come. They have a lot of consistency issues, where they gave me exact percentages; 60% are on 1909, 20% are on 1809, 10% are on 1709, 5% are on 1607, 4% are on 1511, and 1% are still on Windows 7. They also told me that with Windows 7, they had better control over the computers and generally had less tickets. They told me though that updating their servers is the least of their priority, with most of them still being on 2012 R2 and a few being on 2008 R2. They haven't adopted Win10 in their servers yet.

last windows server that had big improvement was windows server 2003 and it shadow copy feature. It allowed snapshots from files on shares incase user removed them by accident. Reduced it department headache a lot

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Just now, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

disable discord hardware accerlation.

I think I did this, but i'll check if this is still disabled. 

Just now, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

last windows server that had big improvement was windows server 2003

I wouldn't say 2003, I would say 2012 R2. 2012 R2 finally added UEFI to HyperV and Microsoft finally started getting marketshare in the virtualization world. I would not use Hyper-V before 2012 R2 because its just too feature-less. 

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