gerwin Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 (edited) I recently made a small low power system. A Core 2 Duo 2,66 GHz. Windows XP SP3 x86. Initially I had a trusted old Radeon of the HD 6000 series in there: Gigabyte HD 6450, 1GB DDR3. From around 2011. ---- Works fine. CPU-Z says PCI Express link speed max 16x, current 16x. 3DMark2001SE benchmark says: 30456 points. Today for fun I borrowed an MSI Geforce GT 710, 1GB DDR3. Wikipedia says the GT 710 is a late Geforce 700-series release from 2016. Driver v368.91. iCafe version. Recognizes the card. 3DMark2001SE benchmark says 24245 points. Initially had stability issues, but these seem to have subsided. Maybe because I added a system fan to keep it cool. Driver v344.75. Has a GT 710 device ID, but had to add another device IDs to make it install. NVIDIA_DEV.128B = "NVIDIA GeForce GT 710". 3DMark2001SE benchmark says 24160 points. No stability issues so far. Issue with both drivers: CPU-Z and GPU-Z keep saying that the card uses only 1x PCI-express (1 lane), with 8x being the maximum for this chip. 'Issue' with both drivers: This card actually performs worse then its 5 years older Radeon counterpart. Looking at the specs of the GT 710, it should have easily overtaken the Radeon. But something is holding it back. EDIT1: Internet searching leads me to suspect that this GT 710 may require a motherboard with UEFI instead of a BIOS to work without issues!? The MSI box does not mention such. But then this card is supposed to have a 'Hybrid' BIOS: https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threads/requesting-legacy-non-uefi-vbios-for-nvidia-gt-710-2gd3h-lp.282892/ EDIT2: Took another card of the exact same type from the office. This time though: PCI-Express seemingly at 8x link width. Hurray! 3DMark2001SE benchmark says 30554 points. Still poor, but somewhat believable. This card is a 2016 production, the previous one was from 2019, or maybe it was just that the previous card was not seated properly? PS. Unfortunately AMD with its Radeon made zero progress in this timeframe for their low-power offering. The 2014 Radeon R5 230 is actually 100% the same GPU chip as the 2011 HD 6450. Even though it came after the HD 7000 and HD 8000 (OEM) series. Edited March 22, 2021 by gerwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerwin Posted March 16, 2021 Author Share Posted March 16, 2021 (edited) I edited my post above. long story short: GT 710 (DDR3) works under WIndows XP, but is somewhat slow for its age and specifications, at least compared to the HD 6450. Edited March 18, 2021 by gerwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerwin Posted March 20, 2021 Author Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) Another GT 710 is in for testing: GigaByte GV-N710D5SL-2GL Device ID: NVIDIA_DEV.128B Passive cooling 2GB GDDR5 VRAM with higher memory clocks. Produced Week 26 2020. Bought new this week. Apparently also has a hybrid VBIOS for legacy systems 3DMark2001SE benchmark goes from 30554 points for the DDR3 card to 37285 points for this GDDR5 one. With driver v344.75. Driver v368.91 iCafe version also works, but I had a hang when loading the benchmark and went back to v344.75. No stability issues with that driver so far. I was a little worried that 2GB VRAM is overly large compared to the rest of the system and that it would remove an extra chunk of usable system RAM. But it was 3,0 GB in the Windows system properties (4GB actually installed), and it is still like that. PCI-Express lane activation is again troublesome. With both driver versions it was stuck at 1x PCIe initially (benchmark decreases to 26878 points). Other times it is stuck at 8x and not going idle. It is NOT caused by improper seating of the card in the slot. For now I think it is caused by Warm reboots. Cold boots, but also a cycle to standby then waking seem to bring PCIe to 8x lanes. In the attached image, I colored the fields that are actually different from the previous MSI GT 710 card. Edited April 4, 2021 by gerwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-H Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Posts moved to a new thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerwin Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 Fine with me. Thanks. I since found the term used for the PCI-express lane upscaling and downscaling: "Link State Power Management". Manual override is lacking in Windows XP. https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_xp-performance/link-state-power-management-settings-in-xp/b91e3069-3a6f-4a85-bc3c-3a063687946c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modnar Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 Why don't you use the last XP driver from nVidia (NOT iCafe version), the XP 368.81 driver? It is rock solid, I've used it with GTX 970, 660, 680, 780Ti, Quadro K6000 and now with GTX 980 (of course with added ID's in the nvdispi.inf for Maxwell chips and put under section18 as 750Ti). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerwin Posted March 31, 2021 Author Share Posted March 31, 2021 Good to know that al these cards worked in XP with that driver. I may try v368.81 when I have some time. But I am somewhat expecting to have the same 3DMark hangs again, which I had with the v368.91. These two drivers are just one week apart in file date. From what I now read, the "iCafe" is just some official NVidia alternative packaging. When you open the installer with 7-zip, the "Display.Driver" folder is pretty much the same. And that is what I extracted, modded and installed manually, in all cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixel Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 On 3/31/2021 at 2:02 AM, gerwin said: From what I now read, the "iCafe" is just some official NVidia ... Yes , Nvidia iCafe are absolutely official and WHQL . https://www.nvidia.com/en-ph/geforce/icafe-certified-program/ Also , there are rumours saying they are based on Quadro. Do you know where to find v368.91 for XP 64-bit or any other iCafe starting from 347.xx for 64-bit XP , I'd like to try them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixel Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 On 3/20/2021 at 7:37 PM, gerwin said: With driver v344.75 Try driver 347.09 . I've got better performance with it using XP64 vs 344.75 . https://drivers.softpedia.com/get/GRAPHICS-BOARD/NVIDIA/NVIDIA-GeForce-Graphics-Driver-34709-for-XP.shtml 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerwin Posted April 3, 2021 Author Share Posted April 3, 2021 17 hours ago, Dixel said: Try driver 347.09 . I've got better performance with it using XP64 vs 344.75 . Thanks for the tip. Actually I used v344.75 because IIRC you mentioned it in the other topic here. I just tried driver v347.09 for a bit, but at least in my 32-bit setup, it makes little difference, behaves pretty much the same. 3DMarks2001 gives 37230 points with this driver, it was 37285 before. The icafe driver v368.91 was mentioned in a Russian 'guide to running Windows XP 32-bit in 2021', which was also posted here, as a word document. 18 hours ago, Dixel said: Also , there are rumours saying they are based on Quadro. Do you know where to find v368.91 for XP 64-bit or any other iCafe starting from 347.xx for 64-bit XP , I'd like to try them. Sorry. I have no idea. Actually I am only recently reading up on the Geforce series, I was using AMD Radeon cards ever since the NVIDIA bad solder issue of 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixel Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 19 hours ago, gerwin said: Thanks for the tip. Actually I used v344.75 because IIRC you mentioned it in the other topic here... You're welcome , 344 are good for XP . I just wanted to help you as much as I could , but 347 gives me better picture quality and fps with newer games. I test on Titan (700 series) so the experience could be quite different . What can we do about that ? I would definitely suggest a very popular (back in the day it was on top) 347.26 . You will see some very good reviews about it. About later drivers , in my experience , I had plenty of troubles with everything starting from 350 , not only with Vista , but with XP too. Currently I'm testing XP64 RTM and I think 347.26 is the winner . And yes , I too had black screens with newer drivers , but not a single problem with the ones below 350 . I think it depends on the card (chip revision and the such) . For example , driver 362 works ok with the usual Titan , but with Titan that has chip revision B1 it has problems , like you described (black screens). This link is for you, for 32-bit. https://drivers.softpedia.com/get/GRAPHICS-BOARD/NVIDIA/NVIDIA-GeForce-iCafe-Graphics-Driver-34726-for-XP.shtml 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerwin Posted April 7, 2021 Author Share Posted April 7, 2021 Much appreciated. Yes I will try v347.26 when I have some time. Your observations are noted. With v347.09 brief testing, I have seen one hang with 3Dmark2001SE. Showing a benchmark intro screen, about to fade in, but it remains very dark forever. Two other runs; no problem. Driver v368.91 had this same issue quite regularly, maybe like half the benchmark runs got stuck like that. With v344.75 I have never seen this hang, despite that I have benchmarked it a dozen times now. Note that for me personally: I am already satisfied with the GT 710 card and the driver v344.75. It performs a bit better then its AMD counterpart, the Radeon HD6450, whilst staying cooler. No system fan required :). I hoped it would perform more then it does, but I now understand this GT 710 chipset was especially redesigned for low power usage. Half the shader-transistor count is factory-disabled. The Windows XP PCI-Express lane-idling-behaviour is a bit annoying, just have to remember to do a standby-wake cycle before 3D usage, whenever the system loaded from reset/reboot instead of a cold boot. Maybe, one day good day, I will try and find the PCI register responsible for this, and poke it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixel Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 (edited) @gerwin , yeah , 344.75 is one of the best ! That's why I mentioned it first . But there are users that just want newer drivers no matter what . I guess there's plenty of folks thinking newer is better . But sometimes we really do need newer ones , so I'd line them up in that order : 344.75, 347.26 , 347.09 , also may look at 361.77. This is the only one from 36.x.x.x. that doesn't have glitches if used with VGA or DVI display and quite fast . And this is it for XP , no more drivers , good or bad. I do not consider 368 driver at all . Why ? 368.81/91 are mega-glitchy , also not supported officially. Do note : 361.77 {sometimes} doesn't play well with HDMI. https://drivers.softpedia.com/get/GRAPHICS-BOARD/NVIDIA/NVIDIA-GeForce-iCafe-Graphics-Driver-36177-for-XP.shtml EDIT : If you're still going to try 347.09 , be sure to use WHQL (not beta), because there are two versions floating around. I actually tried beta ! It is OK , cursor moved so fast , like crazy , folders opened in a nanosecond ! But it had texture problems in one game. This one should be WHQL. https://drivers.softpedia.com/get/GRAPHICS-BOARD/NVIDIA/NVIDIA-GeForce-Graphics-Driver-34709-for-XP.shtml Edited April 8, 2021 by Dixel added new info 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED-CHAMBER Posted April 24, 2021 Share Posted April 24, 2021 I recently installed a GEFORCE GT 710. But a few BSODs from time to time ruin my day. I have the 368.69 driver, since the newer one was even worse. My question is, what should I modify in the installation files to be able to use one of the drivers that you mention? Is it in the nvaci.inf file? I tested and modified this line ... [NVIDIA_Devices.NTx86.5.1] %NVIDIA_DEV.0DCE.0564.1025% = Section001, PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_128B&SUBSYS_27113842&REV_A1 <= %NVIDIA_DEV.0DCE.0565.1025% = Section002, PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0DCE&SUBSYS_05651025 %NVIDIA_DEV.0DCE.0566.1025% = Section001, PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0DCE&SUBSYS_05661025 %NVIDIA_DEV.0DE9.0487.1025% = Section002, PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0DE9&SUBSYS_04871025 ... ... I'm a bit lost here ... [Strings] DiskID1 = "NVIDIA Windows XP (32 bit) Driver Library Installation Disk 1" NVIDIA = "NVIDIA" NVIDIA_DEV.128B = "NVIDIA GeForce GT 710" <===== NO EFFECT NVIDIA_DEV.0DCE.0564.1025 = "NVIDIA GeForce GT 555M" NVIDIA_DEV.0DCE.0565.1025 = "NVIDIA GeForce GT 555M " NVIDIA_DEV.0DCE.0566.1025 = "NVIDIA GeForce GT 555M " NVIDIA_DEV.0DE9.0487.1025 = "NVIDIA GeForce GT 630M" NVIDIA_DEV.0DE9.0488.1025 = "NVIDIA GeForce GT 630M " ... ... And the installer continues until I get a message saying that it wants to install NVIDIA GeForce GT 555M and I have decided not to continue. I am trying to install version 347.09, but any suggestions are welcome. Some help? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED-CHAMBER Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Finally I managed to do it. No more BSODs with my old games and programs, at least for now. I can say the 344.75 driver is the best choice so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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