Jump to content
MSFN is made available via donations, subscriptions and advertising revenue. The use of ad-blocking software hurts the site. Please disable ad-blocking software or set an exception for MSFN. ×

New power supply standard: ATX12VO


TrevMUN
 Share

Recommended Posts

So I've  been hearing about this one since last year. Intel's working with motherboard manufacturers to introduce a new power supply standard that's probably going to up and replace power supplies as we've known them since the mid-90's. PSUs on this standard will only supply 12V power. Intel touts this as a way for computers to lessen energy usage when idling.

Here's Intel's design document for ATX12VO. KitGuru also has an article about this in a more easily readable format.

That's going to come with an overhaul to how the connectors work, and also require motherboards to handle converting voltage that don't take 12v out the gate. The end result: ATX12VO requires entirely new types of motherboards. Because of that, we can probably expect this technology to supplant existing power supplies in the coming decade.

As for why that's important: it's going to be another hurdle to overcome for us legacy OS enthusiasts. It's one thing to hunt down motherboards that support 9X, 2K, XP, Vista and such; it'll gradually get even harder once the power supply market adopts the ATX12VO standard and stops producing current form factor power supplies. That's, of course, assuming that companies don't build backwards compatibility into their PSUs, but I doubt that even if some did they wouldn't keep it up for very long.

Whether or not we can rely on the existing stocks of power supplies out there to work reliably for pre-ATX12VO equipment in the future, I can't say for sure. The [H]ard forum has some debate about that, with one user noting "A sealed PSU is never going to last 30 years of service, no matter the usage, without being completely recapped at least a couple of times. Head on over to the vintage computer forum where we have PSUs from the mid 90s and older with dead electrolytics and exploding tantalum caps."

This bridge is still quite a ways down the road, but it's something to think about. We'll see how things play out, I suppose.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


That's really cool! As a solar power hobbyist, having things that run natively on 12 volt is a plus. Only thing im not sure about is how storage will be 12 volt only, most storage today uses 12 and 5 volt, or just 5 volt. Powering it wont be an issue, though... the modern PC provides a healthy amount of current capacity @5 volts through the USB ports.

 

Quote

"A sealed PSU is never going to last 30 years of service, no matter the usage, without being completely recapped at least a couple of times. Head on over to the vintage computer forum where we have PSUs from the mid 90s and older with dead electrolytics and exploding tantalum caps."

As for that, my absolute oldest AT psu (~1993) is in dire need of recapping, but the next oldest 2 (96 and 97) are still going strong. Both have been opened for cleaning, but no service has been performed and they dont need any. I think they'll make it the few years left to 30 without issue. and I do have other power supply units that are definitely older than 30 and still going strong. The ones in VCRs come to mind.

But i sincerely doubt that AT/ATX PSU shortages will be much of a setback. There's always going to be converters to buck/boost your input whatever voltage to 3.3, 5, and 12 volts, (and even -5/-12, if you need those)

Edited by i430VX
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a good point, I didn't think about the possibility of someone making adapters for an ATX12VO power supply for pre-ATX12VO motherboards and equipment. I have no experience with electrical engineering, but I wonder what such an adapter would look like ...

As for storage devices, I'm not certain, but I think that the motherboard will take responsibility for providing 5v power for the devices that need it. I guess you'd be hooking those devices up to the mobo for power rather than through the power supply.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...

@TrevMUN, thank you for the article , what is the best PSU to buy in advance for at least several years ahead ? I want to buy several. Preferably without LED lights and without paint coating . We've got a wide range to choose from here. The problem is they all look like chinese crap to me. I was quite satisfied with FSP (Fujitsu Siemens Power) 700W , but they don't make them anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Dixel said:

@TrevMUN, thank you for the article , what is the best PSU to buy in advance for at least several years ahead ? I want to buy several. Preferably without LED lights and without paint coating . We've got a wide range to choose from here. The problem is they all look like chinese crap to me. I was quite satisfied with FSP (Fujitsu Siemens Power) 700W , but they don't make them anymore.

seasonics (s12-II not s12-III and focus gold been good ones and made by oem) just avoid s12-III, it uses one japanese cap while, rest are cheapo I mean teapo. s12-II had all caps japanese

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

seasonics (s12-II not s12-III and focus gold been good ones and made by oem) just avoid s12-III, it uses one japanese cap while, rest are cheapo I mean teapo. s12-II had all caps japanese

Thank you ! This all we have (available right now) from seasonics here . Usually it is much more , but now kinda limited due to [insert any "reason" from the news].

I want something between 700 - 800W, so I removed all lower models from the text. Remember I have a GPU that cooks very well , lol. it needs 275W-300W alone.

Seasonic G12 GC-750 80+ Gold 750 Watt

Seasonic B12 BC-850 80+ Bronze 850 Watt

Seasonic G12 GC-850 80+ Gold 850 Watt

Seasonic FOCUS-GX-750 750W

Seasonic Focus GX-850 80+ Gold 850 Watt

Seasonic Focus PX-750 80+ Platinum 750 Watt

Seasonic Focus PX 750 750 Watt

Seasonic PRIME GX-750 750 Watt

Seasonic Connect 750 Modular (80+Gold) 750 Watt

Seasonic Focus PX-850 80+ Platinum 850 Watt

Seasonic PRIME PX-750 750 Watt

Seasonic FOCUS-GX-1000 (80+Gold) 1000 Watt

Seasonic PRIME GX-850 850 Watt

Seasonic PRIME GX-1000 1000 Watt

Seasonic PRIME TX-750 750 Watt

Seasonic PRIME PX-850 850 Watt

Seasonic Prime Snow Silent 80 Plus Titanium 750 Watt

Seasonic Prime-TX-700 Fanless (80+Titanium) 700 Watt

Seasonic PRIME PX-1000 1000 Watt

Seasonic PRIME TX-850 850 Watt

Seasonic Prime Ultra 1300 Gold (80+Gold) 1300 Watt

Seasonic Prime Ultra 1300 Platinum (80+Platinum) 1300 Watt

Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 1000 Watt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dixel said:

Usually it is much more , but now kinda limited due to [insert any "reason" from the news].

I am still waiting my power supply. Store status shows not available still.

1 hour ago, Dixel said:

I want something between 700 - 800W, so I removed all lower models from the text. Remember I have a GPU that cooks very well , lol. it needs 275W-300W alone.

higher power psu never hurts. Less load unit gets longer it lasts.

1 hour ago, Dixel said:

Seasonic FOCUS-GX-750 750W

Seasonic Focus GX-850 80+ Gold 850 Watt

Seasonic Focus PX-750 80+ Platinum 750 Watt

Seasonic Focus PX 750 750 Watt

Seasonic PRIME GX-750 750 Watt

Seasonic Connect 750 Modular (80+Gold) 750 Watt

Seasonic Focus PX-850 80+ Platinum 850 Watt

Seasonic PRIME PX-750 750 Watt

Seasonic FOCUS-GX-1000 (80+Gold) 1000 Watt

Seasonic PRIME GX-850 850 Watt

Seasonic PRIME GX-1000 1000 Watt

Seasonic PRIME TX-750 750 Watt

Seasonic PRIME PX-850 850 Watt

Seasonic PRIME PX-1000 1000 Watt

Seasonic PRIME TX-850 850 Watt

Seasonic Prime Ultra 1300 Gold (80+Gold) 1300 Watt

Seasonic Prime Ultra 1300 Platinum (80+Platinum) 1300 Watt

Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 1000 Watt

these are ones I can recommend. Note if you get seasonic connect you need plenty if case space for that weird looking power splitter thing. Prime is best in quality and focus PX/GX if limited budget and still want reliable quality unit. PX got higher power rating

3 hours ago, Dixel said:

buy in advance for at least several years ahead ? I want to buy several.

I guess I know where my next salary goes. Will buy new power supplies for backup so in future if new standards kills ATX12V (It will for you own benefit because who does not buy brand new hardware every day).

Or in future there is more personal computers. Only locked down non user programmable appliances and anyone who wants to keep using user programmable multipurpose computer is treated as crazy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/16/2021 at 3:27 PM, TrevMUN said:

That's a good point, I didn't think about the possibility of someone making adapters for an ATX12VO power supply for pre-ATX12VO motherboards and equipment. I have no experience with electrical engineering, but I wonder what such an adapter would look like ...

Imagine (today) that you have a normal motherboard and you want to power it from your car (boat/roulotte/camper/etc.) battery.

Meet the pico-PSU:

https://www.onlogic.com/eu-en/technology/glossary/picopsu/

https://www.onlogic.com/eu-en/computers/components/power-supplies/picopsu/

These were born for "car computing" and of course they are "low power" as they used to be in common use with low - power mini-itx boards and similar, but there is nothing preventing (when the need will arise) for making similar ones with more power.

jaclaz

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/11/2021 at 6:10 PM, Dixel said:

@TrevMUN, thank you for the article , what is the best PSU to buy in advance for at least several years ahead ? I want to buy several. Preferably without LED lights and without paint coating . We've got a wide range to choose from here. The problem is they all look like chinese crap to me. I was quite satisfied with FSP (Fujitsu Siemens Power) 700W , but they don't make them anymore.

I'm late to the party, but my daily driver's got a SeaSonic PSU: FOCUS PLUS Platinum SSR-850PX. It's not in the list @Mr.Scienceman2000 provided, but it is a Focus PX model, so I assume it would still pass muster.

Granted, when I was picking parts back in 2019, I was more concerned with something that might give my system "room to grow," for example if I wanted to dabble in overclocking. I've heard that if you're more concerned about maximizing efficiency, you'll want to get a power supply that's at or near peak efficiency for the typical wattage used by your computer. "The FOCUS PLUS Platinum Series achieves 80 PLUS® Platinum certification with its 92 % efficiency at 50 % system load" according to SeaSonic's site, so Palouser would need to be drawing 425W for that kind of efficiency.

I just looked into that and found that the Titan X Maxwell idles at 8W, games at 224W, and has a TDP of 250W; Palouser's CPU, an Intel i7-6950X, idles at 60 W and can go from 250 to 290W depending on the game ... huh. Without even realizing it I went for a power supply that's already efficient for gaming with Palouser's current setup ...

On 10/12/2021 at 9:04 AM, jaclaz said:

Meet the pico-PSU:

Oh hey! I saw mention of these a few days ago when I was looking into ideas for building a low-power PC that could be used as a custom router/modem/LAN firewall. The guy building the PC in that post didn't go with one because he wanted the ability to slot in a big graphics card in the future. Though I bet a Pico would be great for a custom router/modem/firewall PC.

They only seem to go up to 120W, though, so that could still pose an issue for vintage setups with thirstier power requirements.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everyone , @Mr.Scienceman2000 , @TrevMUN , thank you very much for the suggestions ! Unfortunately I had to return the Seasonic Focus PX-850 back the to store (yes , we are still able to return everything back in my country , no questions asked ). Why did I return it ? It's noisy by design , the airflow is poor , it has that stupid dust gathering board for the "cable management" inside , and I didn't like it's too tight on space inside , the vent itself is noisy too , it rotates (why?) even with a small load ! I hope Seasonics s12-II is good and without that dust gathering junk [it has normal cables], but not produced anymore , so I still do not know what to buy ...

Edited by Dixel
a typo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Dixel said:

I hopes Seasonics s12-II is good and without that dust gathering junk [it has normal cables], but not produced anymore , so I still do not know what to buy ...

is was best seasonic PSU for low budgdet but was replaced with cheaper s12-III. One point companies did bad budget power supplies they they did ones with high quality then they went back down cutting down quality to any class.

Only other OEM psu I could recommend is superflower though those only got 5 year warranty for some reason

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

was replaced with cheaper

Like everything else ...  I honestly don't know what to choose . It's plenty of them here , but seems they aren't designed to last , even if they're not used. Superflower also has that dust gathering board . I do not want to collect dust , so no "cable management" for me. I want a classic psu with real grille , without paint (just bare metal) , without cable management , without LED lights , without "beautiful" cables , etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/17/2021 at 3:07 AM, TrevMUN said:

... building a low-power PC that could be used as a custom router/modem/LAN firewall.

 

Don't. :w00t:

Of course it depends on needs, but personally I re-use for those el-cheapo thin clients, they  are - usually - much better quality than "common" hardware, of course they are on the low power side, but the whole stuff has been designed and manufactured to last.

A whole site dedicated to these:

https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/

usually you can find them for a little amount on e-bay or similar, like 20-30-40 bucks, and power consumption like 10/20/30 W.

jaclaz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Huh, so the Focus PX was too noisy, even with that Fanless Mode button? I was just looking at Seasonic's page on that model and it says it's a successor to the model my computer's power supply uses. So I suppose the problems would be the same (or worse) if you had sought out the model I've got. If noise is an issue, have you thought about fanless PSUs? I know SeaSonic makes one, though @Mr.Scienceman2000 would be the guy to say whether or not it's any good I think.

4 hours ago, Dixel said:

I honestly don't know what to choose . It's plenty of them here , but seems they aren't designed to last , even if they're not used. Superflower also has that dust gathering board . I do not want to collect dust , so no "cable management" for me. I want a classic psu with real grille , without paint (just bare metal) , without cable management , without LED lights , without "beautiful" cables , etc.

Outside of really generic brands like Sparkle Power or something, I'm not sure if any manufacturers still make old-style unpainted power supplies with a fan grill instead of a mesh panel. Corsair's most basic offering right now appears to be the VS series, which have basic levels of power efficiency. But even those feature a black finish, mesh panel instead of fan grill, and sleeved cables.

Even Antec's EarthWatts line appears to have gone for that aesthetic, though it looks like Newegg still sells the ones that were painted green and have a fan grill instead of mesh panel. Which, I suppose, would be pretty novel.

But then we're getting into aesthetics instead of function and performance. If you really want to go for older style power supplies, though, you might want to look for one you can repair and maintain. I don't know how easy it is to do with newer power supplies, but given the [H]ard forum had people talking about recapping older power supplies, it should be possible.

1 hour ago, jaclaz said:

Of course it depends on needs, but personally I re-use for those el-cheapo thin clients, they  are - usually - much better quality than "common" hardware, of course they are on the low power side, but the whole stuff has been designed and manufactured to last.

Thin clients are a good option, too. I'd poked around Parky Towers before looking to see what's out there, and some of those models have amazing low power consumption! I wonder how they do with thermals, though. I know that commercial routers can have problems with overheating, so I thought one fix (once I finally have a place of my own!) would be to just take matters into my own hands.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Dixel said:

I do not want to collect dust , so no "cable management" for me. I want a classic psu with real grille , without paint (just bare metal) , without cable management , without LED lights , without "beautiful" cables , etc.

I would want one too but it seems no quality brand no longer makes those. I want psu like my antec 350w was but higher wattage and without cap issue. That thing lasted from 2004 to 2010 or so when exploded due capacitor plague. Some prebuilts still got those power supplies but they are usually low quality or limited connectors

I guess industrial power supplies would be more like it

 

Better luck trying to find metallic computer case that is not mostly plastic. My 2004 antec sonata case i still going strong and got dual 120mm fan slots. Simple black and stylish and strong metal body with only front being plastic.

Edited by Mr.Scienceman2000
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...