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Windows 7 and 8 in 2021


Jaguarek62

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I'm starting to understand that I'll never win the battle against windows 10. Since iTunes ended support, everything is kinda all over the place for me. For how long do you think will at least browsers and steam support Windows 7/8 ? also Nvidia can end the support soon. I'm fully aware that no-one except you guys here cares about older operating systems and it is really sad :(

People are happy with telemetry filled, ugly looking, unreliable crapdows 10. I think 2021 will be the last year I'll be able to enjoy 8.1 before downgrading to windows 10 :( Discord is already complaining about screen share ("For the best experience, Please upgrade to windows 10"). 

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I see that MS stuffed Visual C++ with several functions that get called based on the OS they're running on; SetThreadDescription is one from 10, while GetCurrentPackageId is one from 8, and they infamously did the same with XP functions to shut out 2000.

Firefox and Chromium browsers do not load on Vista if Application Verifier is set to Windows 8/10 on those applications. It's OK for now as they're not really needed, but they may be once Windows 7 is scuttled and they settle on a hard version check to shut it out.

The thing that concerns me most is display driver support, because that changed significantly between 8.1 and 10 (WDDM 1.3 to WDDM 2.0).

And as we found out, some of those version checks are hard to deal with. The only solution seemingly is to correct VerifyVersionInfo in ntdll and of course, that means making wrappers for 7 and 8.1 with that and RtlGetVersion. :wacko:

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A couple things to note here.

1. Why do you need iTunes? Make your music library local if you haven't already and ditch it.

2. 7 is definitely on its way out, but 8 is still kind of a special case since it will be receiving official security updates for a couple more years still. The real breaking point will be drivers, but if people can still find a way to make Windows XP work in this day and age, I don't think that will be too much of a problem. As to Discord, I use that in a browser and on my phone anyway, so no big loss there at all. NVidia/AMD would be a big factor, yes, but the 30 series of current NVidia cards all support 8.1 and even 7, and I know at least with NVidia, they don't start dropping OS support until at least a new line is launched. They could have ditched 8.1 for this 30 series, but they did not, so that also gives 8.1 a few more years of life behind it.

3. DirectX12 has been a bit of a thorn in the side of legacy Windows users, but Vulkan is starting to catch up fast, and Vulkan is OS independent. Perhaps the biggest standards that 8.1 is really missing is support for the latest Bluetooth standard of 5.2 (meh) and Wifi 6, or 802.11ax (more of a problem, but also not a big deal).

4. Finally, even if all this didn't apply, it's still not all doom and gloom. Quite the opposite. There's a reason that Valve has been on a rampage with providing Linux support. They got mad at Microsoft a long time ago and didn't like being beholden to them (think it started with the bul***** UWX), so they're now funneling their money and efforts into Linux to give it a massive boost in compatibility. And it's helping. A lot. This is also probably why Valve dropped Steam support for Windows Vista and below. They believe in and want those people on Linux instead. Back in the day, Linux used to be frustrating to use, and compatibility equally so, but those days are long gone, and in some instances, Linux actually works BETTER than Windows. And even further, it's only going to improve. The kernel has shown itself time and time again to be absolutely amazing for old hardware while still retaining full support for the latest hardware and drivers, now easily auto-detecting what needs to be used and doesn't and seamlessly applies the correct drivers without any input needed.

At the very end of the day, even if Windows 10 didn't suck, we all knew this was gonna happen sometime. OSes get old. New standards are developed. That's just what happens. But just because 8.1 will reach end-of-life sometime is not the end of the world since Linux is now the looming behemoth over Microsoft's OS division, and if Microsoft doesn't shape its a** up, that penguin is gonna start stealing a lot of f****** market share.

Edited by AeroSeeker
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Yes, @AeroSeeker, I agree with you that Linux is in many ways better than Windows 10, but one of the things I love about earlier Windows versions is that the UI was great (for example, Windows Vista's Aero UI and taskbar), but sadly, tweaking Linux to make it look just like a Windows Vista clone is impossible. I'm saying this because I'm not a fan on the Gnome, Mate, XFCE, LXDE etc.etc. themes in Linux.

Edited by Win10-Hater
a rookie mistake lol
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1 hour ago, Win10-Hater said:

Yes, @AeroSeeker, I agree with you that Linux is in many ways better than Windows 10, but one of the things I love about earlier Windows versions is that the UI was great (for example, Windows Vista's Aero UI and taskbar), but sadly, tweaking Linux to make it look just like a Windows Vista clone is impossible. I'm saying this because I'm not a fan on the Gnome, Mate, XFCE, LXDE etc.etc. themes in Linux.

I am essentially the same way. I love Linux and I think it will get big, but in my case, I just don't prefer anything that it offers. Windows 7 and 8.1 just worked when installed and are compatibile on great amounts of hardware.

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5 hours ago, Jaguarek62 said:

I'm starting to understand that I'll never win the battle against windows 10. Since iTunes ended support, everything is kinda all over the place for me. For how long do you think will at least browsers and steam support Windows 7/8 ? also Nvidia can end the support soon. I'm fully aware that no-one except you guys here cares about older operating systems and it is really sad :(

People are happy with telemetry filled, ugly looking, unreliable crapdows 10. I think 2021 will be the last year I'll be able to enjoy 8.1 before downgrading to windows 10 :( Discord is already complaining about screen share ("For the best experience, Please upgrade to windows 10"). 

Same here. Very sad to see that the crappy, spying, crashing, bloated, FisherPrice-looking, user-unfriendly Windows 10 is being promoted by MS guys, who know the power users who used and loved Windows 2000, XP, Vista etc.etc. and still use it to this day. I hate its mobile first approach :(

I'm planning to use Windows Vista and 7 and 8.x till atleast 2023, when full support for the three ends (Vista ESU, 7 ESU, 8.0 Server 2012 updates and 8.1 direct updates). Also, if I can use them for longer, I will certainly do so until either my hardware can't keep up or when these OSes become completely obsolete, and seeing as there are many wise members here at MSFN dedicated to keeping legacy Windows versions alive, that moment is set to come only long after, in the very far future. Also, I'm going to completely move to Linux when Windows Vista, 7 and 8 become obsolete and am never going to bother with Microsoft from that moment.

If you've liked what I said, please do upvote. No compulsion intended though.

Edited by Win10-Hater
Another rookie mistake lol. I typed Windows 200 instead of 2000
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3 hours ago, Win10-Hater said:

Yes, @AeroSeeker, I agree with you that Linux is in many ways better than Windows 10, but one of the things I love about earlier Windows versions is that the UI was great (for example, Windows Vista's Aero UI and taskbar), but sadly, tweaking Linux to make it look just like a Windows Vista clone is impossible. I'm saying this because I'm not a fan on the Gnome, Mate, XFCE, LXDE etc.etc. themes in Linux.

Actually, I had Linux in a VM pretty recently with KDE and I got pretty far in getting it to look like Windows Aero. Transparency effects and everything. Now, I didn't get all the way, truthfully, but KDE is ridiculously customizable, so in that regard, there's a learning curve. Also, I wasn't trying hard at all either since this was just a VM install I was screwing around with.

Edited by AeroSeeker
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3 hours ago, AeroSeeker said:

3. DirectX12 has been a bit of a thorn in the side of legacy Windows users, but Vulkan is starting to catch up fast, and Vulkan is OS independent. Perhaps the biggest standards that 8.1 is really missing is support for the latest Bluetooth standard of 5.2 (meh) and Wifi 6, or 802.11ax (more of a problem, but also not a big deal).

I think WiFi 6 is more on the WiFi card itself, as I've gotten 5GHz 802.11n working on XP with a proper WiFi card.

Edited by asdf2345
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1 hour ago, asdf2345 said:

I think WiFi 6 is more on the WiFi card itself, as I've gotten 5GHz 802.11n working on XP with a proper WiFi card.

Well, all the Wifi 6/Bluetooth 5.2 cards I've seen say Windows 10 and Linux only. Now, it could be they're just saying that as they don't want to officially support anything other than Windows 10 and Linux using the card, but it will still unofficially work anyway. I doubt it though.

Edited by AeroSeeker
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15 hours ago, AeroSeeker said:

Why do you need iTunes? Make your music library local if you haven't already and ditch it.

Well this is not as easy as you may think. Not only am I iTunes subscriber, I own iPhone 12 and iPad, and synchronization only works through iTunes.

15 hours ago, AeroSeeker said:

Vulkan is starting to catch up fast

Well game developers are only seeing dx 12 for some unknown reason. They ONLY really care about Windows 10. I guess screw anyone using 7/8 or linux and MAC?

15 hours ago, AeroSeeker said:

AMD would be a big factor

Amd gpus no longer works stable enough on windows 8.1. I've tested rx 570 and vega 56 and browser acceleration did not work and I got some gpu hangs and driver crashes. It uses wddm 1.1 so...

Until they fix their s***, windows 10 is unusable for me and I'll try to learn linux (altough I don't like many things on linux)

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5 hours ago, Jaguarek62 said:

Well this is not as easy as you may think. Not only am I iTunes subscriber, I own iPhone 12 and iPad, and synchronization only works through iTunes.

Well game developers are only seeing dx 12 for some unknown reason. They ONLY really care about Windows 10. I guess screw anyone using 7/8 or linux and MAC?

Amd gpus no longer works stable enough on windows 8.1. I've tested rx 570 and vega 56 and browser acceleration did not work and I got some gpu hangs and driver crashes. It uses wddm 1.1 so...

Until they fix their s***, windows 10 is unusable for me and I'll try to learn linux (altough I don't like many things on linux)

- Syncing can be done through SyncToy, but I understand it may be a pain to get all your music off of iTunes. Best to get out of Apple's grip now though while you can.

- Maybe for """AAA""" developers, they only want 10, but honestly, most AAA games suck anyway.

- AMD has always been notorious for ***** drivers. That seems like a huge problem though. Have you made sure that something else isn't messing up in your system?

- As to the Intel drivers, I don't know the context at all there.

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36 minutes ago, AeroSeeker said:

Syncing can be done through SyncToy, but I understand it may be a pain to get all your music off of iTunes. Best to get out of Apple's grip now though while you can.

Oh yeah, I’m working on it. Just glad, that it works for now to finish my transfer period to spotify. (Apple effectively lost paying customer).

 

37 minutes ago, AeroSeeker said:

Maybe for """AAA""" developers, they only want 10, but honestly, most AAA games suck anyway.

True indeed. 

 

37 minutes ago, AeroSeeker said:

Have you made sure that something else isn't messing up in your system?

Oh yeah, 3 clean installs of the os itself. The problem is, that the driver only installs through inf file. You cannot use compatibility mode and install it any other way. Amd made sure to block nt 6.2 and 6.3 everywhere they could. Also that is HUGE bs, because on the box for rx 480 Windows 8.1 is displayed and not whole year after this card has released, they dropped the support? 

My ryzen pc build is running rock solid though, nvidia drivers are just awesome, not a single bad word against them. Nvidia seems to care about windows 8.1 and I love them for that

40 minutes ago, AeroSeeker said:

As to the Intel drivers, I don't know the context at all there.

that was ax 200 (wifi 6 spec pcie card) and his respond to one of the person asking on their forum.

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11 hours ago, Jaguarek62 said:

also when I was browsing intel driver support, I found this:

what.PNG

There are a lot of people who aren't in for the operating system and just want to use their PC, so they develop a hate or disliking towards the ones that use their OS for the fun of it.

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To minimize telemetry, try O&O Shut Up.

To avoid telemetry and even problems with a lack of security updates, consider another operating system that goes through continuous updates.

To make Win 10 or even 8.1 look like 7, try Open-Shell.

 

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