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98SE install prep for Dell Latitude D830


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Did you try to disable the Ultra ATA controller? Setting connections to 'none'.

Edited by deomsh
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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, deomsh said:

Did you try to disable the Ultra ATA controller? Setting connections to 'none'.

I'm not sure what you mean, as I uninstalled the driver earlier. Reinstalling it and changing the Dual IDE Channel Settings in Device Manager to "No IDE Channels enabled" made the "Primary IDE controller (dual fifo)" go away, and now the device status for Ultra ATA says: "This device is disabled because the BIOS for the device did not give it an IRQ (Interrupt Request). (Code 29.) You must enable the device in the BIOS. See your hardware documentation for details, or contact your computer manufacturer to get an updated BIOS."

However, while I did this, I remembered seeing something before about how this Ultra ATA controller might actually just be the CD/DVD drive. After restoring the Dual IDE Channel Settings to "Default" (which brought things back to the Primary IDE controller problem), I went into the BIOS and set the Modular Bay Device (which is currently the CD/DVD) to Off, which gave me the same error code as above, so I guess Ultra ATA is actually the Modular Bay area that the CD/DVD is stuck in.

Knowing this, I changed the Dual IDE Channel Settings back to "No IDE Channels Enabled" and added the following to AUTOEXEC and CONFIG.SYS (which were both blank before this):

CONFIG.SYS:
DEVICEHIGH=C:\STUFF\CD\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:IDE-CD

AUTOEXEC.BAT:
@ECHO OFF
C:\STUFF\CD\SHSUCDX /D:?IDE-CD

This gave me access to the CD drive in My Computer. This probably isn't the ideal solution since it added Drive D to the list of drives (which was previously only A and C) that are "using MS-DOS compatibility mode file system" according to the Performance tab, but user keenmaster486 in this forum post suggests that it's the only way you can get Latitudes to use the CD drive in 98, so I guess this means the Ultra ATA might not be a "truly fixable" problem for now?

Also, another funny thing to note: in Safe Mode, a "Secondary IDE controller appears", but never in normal mode.

  

16 hours ago, RainyShadow said:

Looks like AHCI mode is working fine. And it says "Ports: 2"

So, the issue should be elsewhere, i think.


What's the third drive that AHCIMAP was detecting, in this case? Could it mean that one of the things listed as "none" in BIOS like Flash Cache are detected as possible in AHCIMAP, but Sentinel only detects things that are actually active/installed?

Edited by beansmuggler
Mistakenly mentioned "No IDE channels enabled" instead of "Default"
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Sorry for the confusion, I forgot you switched to the 'normal' IDE-Controller.

But I ment the IDE-Controller in general, not the identification from your Intel-inf file (driver of the Primary will in both cases be ESDI-506.PDR I presume).

I was hoping de-activating the controller would help to overcome MS-DOS Compatibility Mode and connect <somehow> your AHCI-Controller to your hard-drive.

Edited by deomsh
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1 hour ago, deomsh said:

Sorry for the confusion, I forgot you switched to the 'normal' IDE-Controller.

But I ment the IDE-Controller in general, not the identification from your Intel-inf file (driver of the Primary will in both cases be ESDI-506.PDR I presume).

I was hoping de-activating the controller would help to overcome MS-DOS Compatibility Mode and connect <somehow> your AHCI-Controller to your hard-drive.

I should note that I made an error earlier in my post that I've since corrected (putting "Default" where it should've been chronologically, where i accidentally said "No IDE Channels enabled"), but I guess it doesn't change anything.

In this case, should I try using AHCILDR provided in the AHCI driver files? I've been hesitant to use it since I don't want to risk damaging the BIOS, but it looks like the options left are starting to disappear.

Also, I feel I should mention that many installations on this machine have given me a bluescreen on their first startup warning me that my drivers would be switched to compatibility mode. Would a new install be warranted to try and circumvent this?

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6 hours ago, beansmuggler said:

What's the third drive that AHCIMAP was detecting, in this case? Could it mean that one of the things listed as "none" in BIOS like Flash Cache are detected as possible in AHCIMAP, but Sentinel only detects things that are actually active/installed?

Do you have an actual Flash cache module installed and enabled? It is an addon SSD card, like the WiFi, etc. cards.

3 hours ago, beansmuggler said:

In this case, should I try using AHCILDR provided in the AHCI driver files? I've been hesitant to use it since I don't want to risk damaging the BIOS, but it looks like the options left are starting to disappear.

It probably just modifies the settings in RAM, highly unlikely to break your BIOS.

Worst case it could (theoretically) modify a NVRAM setting, if that ever prevented your laptop from booting/powering on , you can reset it by removing the CMOS battery for a few seconds.

 

Could you post a short summary of how to replicate your current setup?

I could try it on a D830 at work if i get some free time (that's a rare thing though, so no promises).

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Windows 95C on a Dell Latitude D510

farfigs11 replied to jholt5638's topic in Windows 9x/ME

yea, i agree with above, you have to disable usb emulation in BIOS on Dell laptops that were designed for XP and Vista if you want 9x to detect devices. As for CDROM, set your IDE controller to primary only then run add new hardware non plug and play and it should find the CDROM but DMA won't be available.

January 21, 2018

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1 hour ago, farfigs11 said:

Windows 95C on a Dell Latitude D510

farfigs11 replied to jholt5638's topic in Windows 9x/ME

yea, i agree with above, you have to disable usb emulation in BIOS on Dell laptops that were designed for XP and Vista if you want 9x to detect devices. As for CDROM, set your IDE controller to primary only then run add new hardware non plug and play and it should find the CDROM but DMA won't be available.

January 21, 2018

This one doesn't really seem to work, unless maybe you mean I have to do it on a fresh install? I've tried this six ways from Sunday and it always installs itself as the dual fifo thing and never allows for any CDROM drive. Disabling USB emulation doesn't prevent the two phantom USB-related question marks from appearing, either.

 

On 3/29/2021 at 1:40 AM, RainyShadow said:

Do you have an actual Flash cache module installed and enabled? It is an addon SSD card, like the WiFi, etc. cards.

IDK. The BIOS says I don't have one installed, but it's also said the same for my ModBay device when my CD drive is clearly installed (and it knows that too, since on a different screen in-BIOS it will acknowledge that it's installed). I'm too risk-averse to take it apart!

On 3/29/2021 at 1:40 AM, RainyShadow said:

It probably just modifies the settings in RAM, highly unlikely to break your BIOS.

Worst case it could (theoretically) modify a NVRAM setting, if that ever prevented your laptop from booting/powering on , you can reset it by removing the CMOS battery for a few seconds.

Sounds good. I tried it out, but it doesn't look like it works on my computer. Just hangs on the 98 logo screen. That's unfortunate!

On 3/29/2021 at 1:40 AM, RainyShadow said:

Could you post a short summary of how to replicate your current setup?

I could try it on a D830 at work if i get some free time (that's a rare thing though, so no promises).

When I get some time I could get a write-up going, yeah. My setup has had months of existence messing with variables though, so it might be easier if I reach another reset point.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/29/2021 at 1:40 AM, RainyShadow said:

Could you post a short summary of how to replicate your current setup?

I could try it on a D830 at work if i get some free time (that's a rare thing though, so no promises).

Ok, decided to use this time to restart and provide exactly how I carried out this new setup I just did.

Here's some information in the BIOS that seemed helpful to be sure we're on the same page:

Processor ID: 00010676
Processor Cache Size: 6144KB

Memory installed: 4096 MB
Memory technology: DDR2 SDRAM

Primary hard drive: 160 GB HDD
Mod bay device: DVD+/-RW
System DBay device: none

Video controller: Intel Crestline GRaphics
Video BIOS version: 1588
Video memory: 8 MB

Audio controller: Sigmatel 9205
Modem controller: Conexant HDA D330 MDC
Wi-Fi Device: Intel Wireless
no cellular/bluetooth device

no flash cache module

This is the BIOS settings you start out with (things unmentioned seemed unimportant and were at their default setting):

Integrated NIC: Enabled w/PXE
Internal modem: enabled
external usb: enabled
parallel port: ecp
serial port: com1
pc/1934: off
sata: ahci
modbay: enabled
flashcache: off
asf mode: off
microphone: enabled

ambient light sensor: off
primary video: onboard video

cpu xd support: enabled
signed firmware update: disable
tpm security: off
tpm activation: deactivate
computrace: deactivate

multi core support: off
dynamic acceleration: off
speedstep: off

usb emulation: on

internal bluetooth: off
internal wi-fi: enabled
internal cellular: off

Here are the steps I went through (not exactly straightforward but I wrote them as I did each step to be sure):

 

0. Boot from CD ROM and make sure you have drive pre-partitioned to 10001 Mbytes in fdisk (this is what it says on my Win98 CD, can't remember what the actual size is from when I first apportioned it)
1. Format C:, no volume label
2. xcopy your win98 folder to C: with the /E flag
3. xcopy STUFF folder to C: with /E flag (STUFF contains seperate folders for AHCI driverset, chipset drivers, D600 drivers, HDAFILES directory, SATA drivers [now unused], and video drivers)
4. Reboot and disable USB emulation
5. Restart and boot from CD ROM
6. Start computer with CD support
7. C:\WIN98>setup /p i
9. Just go thru it all with default settings (computer name LAPPY so everyone knows you're cool), also skip making a setup disk
10. Let it restart but boot from CD again with CD support
11. Copy AHCI4.INF, MACHINE.INF, MACHINE2.INF, and VBEMP.INF from STUFF to the INF folder
12. Realize you're stupid and restart to re-enable USB emulation so you can boot from cd again and copy HIMEMX.EXE to C:\
13: Add "DEVICE=C:\HIMEMX.EXE /MAX=523264" to CONFIG.SYS
14. Rename MSHDC.INF in the INF folder to MSHDC.BAK
15. Make these changes to safe mode: https://msfn.org/board/topic/142953-more-than-1-gib-in-win9x-safe-mode/
16. Reboot and turn USB emulation back off
17. Let the installation continue
18. Use StrongBad as your name so everyone knows you're *really* cool
19. Use your code and continue with installation (when asked for VBEMP driver disk, point to C:\STUFF\VID; when for AHCI, point to C:\STUFF\AHCI)
20. Make sure date/time is current and uses EST, auto adjusts for DST
21. Let it keep going and restart itself, don't give yourself a password
22. Install everything is asks for from in the INF directory (should just be the monitor and nothing else)
23. Uncheck "Show this screen each time WIndows 98 starts"

At this point, everything should have installed and AHCI port 2 and 3 should be exclamation points. The following should be yellow question marks: O2Micro CCID SC Reader, PCI Card, PCI Ethernet Controller, PCI IDE Controller, PCI Network Controller, and two PCI Universal Serial Buses. The CD drive doesn't show, and the Performance tab should say how compatibility-mode paging reduces overall performance and that drives A and C are using compatibility mode.

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Well, today i did as you described and got Win98 on that D830 in about the same state as yours.

The only notable difference should be that i have a NVidia GPU here, i selected the 32MB VBEMP driver and it worked fine.

Unfortunately, i didn't have time to do any experiments with it. Maybe next week, if things aren't too crazy at work...

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  • 3 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

I was doing some reading around today and saw here that someone was able to get an M70 (which is apparently based on a D810) to work properly with ICH8 chipset drivers. Would this be worth a shot?

 

Also, should I switch to PATCHMEM with ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1 instead of HIMEMX?

 

This post on the D600 also suggested going the ATA route and just messing with resources until the conflicts are gone, but it sounds potentially fragile as more things get installed

Edited by beansmuggler
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Posted (edited)

I tried restarting and going back to ATA mode and using PATCHMEM with ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1 (though I still have to use HIMEMX in the setup process) and that got rid of the drive C compatibility mode and the "compatibility-mode paging reduces overall performance" messages in the Performance tab, leaving just the message about drive A being in compatibility mode (which I still don't get since drive A remains unattached to this computer due to it being USB and nonfunctional). Unless I figured out how to build something specifically to help this computer, I feel like I'm going to have to stick with CD drive access through DOS settings in CONFIG.SYS/AUTOEXEC, though I'll keep the AHCI stuff on hand if anything ever comes up.

The O2Micro CCID SC Reader, PCI Card, PCI Ethernet Controller, PCI Network Controller, and two PCI Universal Serial Buses are still the only things remaining like with the AHCI setup, so I guess I'll start trying to hunt those down. I tried that 100000 driver pack listed somewhere else on this site and, while it had a driver I definitely recognized by name, nothing I tried seemed to detect anything new (I didn't try all the subfolders, but that's too tedious to be worth it imo), so I'll keep looking elsewhere. Given how the XP drivers for this computer required .exe installers for wifi, audio, and 02micro, I might try to find Ethernet first. So far I have a copy of the DOS and win2k drivers for it, but I doubt that either of those would be useful.

 

EDIT: found a 98SE version of the Ethernet controller driver here , but it doesn't seem to work like it should. Maybe it's because I used the wrong .cat file the first time around, but installing this device, looking at its properties, and now even booting up all have an added freeze to them while I wait for something mysterious to happen behind the scenes. Might try doing a reinstall to see if it was something wrong with the .cat I used the first time (it was for windows ME rather than 98SE i think), but I'm still stuck on the yellow exclamation point for now.

Edited by beansmuggler
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Posted (edited)

Somehow, I was able to get the CD-DVD drive detected through the slipstream drivers while trying to get an ATA mode /p j (I think? I've reset this thing at least 10 times in the past few days) boot to work and now I guess I'm gonna try to rededicate to the grind if possible. I don't know exactly what caused it, but I was trying to delete Enum and reinstall different drivers and so on, and in one of the reboots I somehow got a CD-DVD drive listed under the primary fifo, though my setup still wasn't stable and had to be abandoned. I haven't been able to replicate it since. This is my Sisyphus task

 

(I feel like I'll end up abandoning this again anyways since I'm currently stuck at a pattern of events that keeps me from booting consistently, but the prospect of having this all possible without relying on DOS CD is appealing now that it seems possible)

Edited by beansmuggler
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Posted (edited)

It is a well known 'secret' if Windows' SETUP can't find CD/DVD drives having MS-DOS drivers in CONFIG.SYS/AUTOEXEC.BAT can be helpfull. In one of your previous post's I found you are using SHSUCDX in AUTOEXEC.BAT.

As far as I know SETUP will search for MSCDEX. Afterwards MSCDEX will be REM'd out by Windows SETUP.

In your case such a line would look (something) like this: C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:IDE-CD

Don't know if this will be helpfull, just an idea that came up to my mind.

Edited by deomsh
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, deomsh said:

It is a well known 'secret' if Windows' SETUP can't find CD/DVD drives having MS-DOS drivers in CONFIG.SYS/AUTOEXEC.BAT can be helpfull. In one of your previous post's I found you are using SHSUCDX in AUTOEXEC.BAT.

As far as I know SETUP will search for MSCDEX. Afterwards MSCDEX will be REM'd out by Windows SETUP.

In your case such a line would look (something) like this: C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:IDE-CD

Don't know if this will be helpfull, just an idea that came up to my mind.

Tried this and kept messing with things to see if anything would change, and while I'd see the CD drive in safe mode, it wouldn't show up in normal mode even though Setup seemed to rem the entry. After unchecking "Disconnect" in Safe Mode, I decided to try out changing one of the resources on the driver to some other empty setting and it suddenly permitted the drive. However, it doesn't seem to keep working after I restart the computer, as it goes back to yellow exclamation mode and hides the CD drive. This might be because my CD drive seems to take a few tries to start up, but I'm not sure (it makes stopping and starting sounds a few times each time the computer turns on).

Edited by beansmuggler
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