Official - Windows 10 Worst Crap Ever!

[NoelC]

Holding back only works for so long.

 

I know the effort it's taken to make the various versions of Windows into workable systems.  Been doing it since time began (to borrow a phrase).

 

For me...

 

Win 10 has taken at least 1.5x as much effort and time to tame and muzzle as did Win 8.1 (which I am currently still using as my main workstation OS), while providing about the same functionality PLUS a bunch of things I don't need or want.

 

Win 8.1 in turn took about 1.5x effort as much as Win 7, and delivered about 105% of the functionality PLUS a bunch of things I didn't need or want. 

 

Win 7 took about the same effort as Vista and delivered about 120% of the functionality.

 

Vista took about 1.5x as much effort as XP and delivered about 150% of the functionality. 

 

I could go back further the point is already made.  We're getting less and less and having to spend more and more to maintain something that's useful.

 

Trouble is, Microsoft has PROVEN that it will no longer even be possible to make a statement like the above, unless you start breaking things down into 4 month segments.  Worse yet, they've even taken to making it cost MORE time and effort to keep older Windows systems under control, with all these roll-outs of "cloud-integrated" features they're retrofitting into Windows 7 and 8. 

 

I've reached a stable state where I can trust my systems again, but that will only keep until the next set of updates, which I'll have to vet, then - frankly - guess at whether to install (because Microsoft simply doesn't document them well enough any more).

 

-Noel

[dencorso]

Resistance is futile...

 

[bookie32]

Hi guys!

 

Tommy!

I agree with you on the spying and third party apps etc.....but as NoelC enlightens us he has been doing this since time began.... most of us tweak our desktops in some way or another...whether it be in a small way or large...just never looked under the hood as much as many do here...

 

NoelC!

I have never really looked under the hood like a lot of your guys and it is scary how much has been going on that I really wasn't aware of or just didn't pay attention....but that time has gone and I am awake now...

 

bphlpt!

Thanks for your explanation into why dhjohns commented like he did....  but as jaklaz points out he didn't think it was my post that was funny rather that "You are a very funny man" ...never thought of my self as doing stand up comedy before...glad it makes some members laugh...it is better than the alternative...

 

dencorso!

I remember the Borg....  

I agree it is futile...I honestly can't see why there is any point in staying with an OS that you have to change a ton of stuff to be completely happy...we could just all do as this guy has done....  or maybe I haven't understood your reference to "Resistance is futile"

 

 

I haven't been that displeased with Windows 7...or have I....I have been using Object Dock as my starting point for a long time...just find it quicker with all my icons on one dock and it is setup to how I like it....now I am just noticing I that I have never really used Windows 7 as it was intended...I like a clear desktop so I hide all my icons apart from my object dock...

 

 

The great thing about the extensive knowledge here is one can improve things without the risk of breaking too much...

 

I am prepared to do some changes to a OS version to get it how I want it to look...but having to remove all that makes a new OS what it is intended to be takes the cake....The worst thing with the new changes for spyware etc they can and probably will be changed with an update...So, maybe "Resistance is futile"...?

 

Microsoft have made a big mistake if they think people are not going to notice the spying software....and as long as there are companies...how small (mine I am referring to) can warn the customers to the pitfalls of buying or upgrading to something that just a new listening bug for the American government...

 

I do realise that that statement is going to **** a few people off...sorry...

 

bookie32

Edited September 14, 2015 by bookie32

[jaclaz]

Holding back only works for so long.

 

I know the effort it's taken to make the various versions of Windows into workable systems.  Been doing it since time began (to borrow a phrase).

 

For me...

 

Win 10 has taken at least 1.5x as much effort and time to tame and muzzle as did Win 8.1 (which I am currently still using as my main workstation OS), while providing about the same functionality PLUS a bunch of things I don't need or want.

 

Win 8.1 in turn took about 1.5x effort as much as Win 7, and delivered about 105% of the functionality PLUS a bunch of things I didn't need or want. 

 

Win 7 took about the same effort as Vista and delivered about 120% of the functionality.

 

Vista took about 1.5x as much effort as XP and delivered about 150% of the functionality. 

 

I could go back further the point is already made.  We're getting less and less and having to spend more and more to maintain something that's useful.

 

Trouble is, Microsoft has PROVEN that it will no longer even be possible to make a statement like the above, unless you start breaking things down into 4 month segments.  Worse yet, they've even taken to making it cost MORE time and effort to keep older Windows systems under control, with all these roll-outs of "cloud-integrated" features they're retrofitting into Windows 7 and 8. 

 

I've reached a stable state where I can trust my systems again, but that will only keep until the next set of updates, which I'll have to vet, then - frankly - guess at whether to install (because Microsoft simply doesn't document them well enough any more).

 

-Noel

Well, someone needs to explicit the calculation, let's see if the math is correct:

XP (please read as 2K with some added bells and whistles) functionality=100 effort=100

Vista (roughly after 1 to 2 - ONE to TWO years later) functionality= 100*1.50= 150 effort=100*1.50= 150

7 (please read as Vista SP3) functionality=150*1.20= 180 effort=150*1.00= 150

8 N/A

8.1 (one year later) functionality=180*1.05= 189 effort=150*1.50= 225

10 (another year later) functionality=189*1.00= 189 effort=225*1.50= 337.50

 

Now if we call overall efficiency the ratio between functionality and effort we have:

XP 100/100=1

Vista 150/150=1 (but after a LOT of time since release)

7 180/150= 1.20

8 N/A

8.1 189/225=0.84

10 189/337.50= 0.56

 

Now besides NoelC's requirements (that may be "niche") are the "bunch of things" he doesn't want or need increase functionality enough to reach the 1.20 (or even the 1.00) efficiency ratio of 7 or XP?

 

jaclaz

[vinifera]

maybe the statement "this is the last Windows" is true

nobody will want next version ahahah

[NoelC]

Hate to say it, but selling ad space for even a measly 100 million pairs of eyeballs will keep the lights on in Redmond.  They haven't failed.

 

And they will continue degrading older versions by loading them up with Windows Updates that take them in directions never expected by the folks with those old licenses, so I expect the Win 10 usage will go up to probably 200 million at least in the coming few years.

 

Realistically, anyone with any savvy will find it a very difficult decision to move to Mac or Linux.

 

In the words of Emperor Palpatine...

 

 

-Noel

[bookie32]

Hi NoelC

I guess my comments about Windows 10 being used as a listening bug for the American government struck a chord...

 

OK! Let us look at this from another perspective...While I admit and can understand a lot of users wanting an OS that is familiar on all media...I don't see any trend showing millions going out and buying Microsoft units on the smaller tablet platforms...

 

If we are going to go down the road of about 200 million users in the coming years...then that doesn't really even cover America so that isn't going to help Microsoft sales...?

 

Another thing to look at is the Millions of large corporations going over to Linux for their servers (security) that is already happening here in a little country like Sweden. Large companies, banks etc haven't any confidence in Microsoft already so pardon me if your statement "Realistically, anyone with any savvy will find it a very difficult decision to move to Mac or Linux" doesn't make sense...

 

But then again I haven't any savvy, so the move wont affect me...

 

Millions are using Linux on their own home servers because it is so widely supported by millions across the globe actually trying to create an OS that they are proud of and not how much it will make for the share holders...and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg like Microsoft server versions...it is actually free! Of course large corporations pay for the support for their Linux based servers - but I don't see that coming close to the rip off charges Microsoft have... 

 

At the moment it is the size of Microsoft and the fact that they are controlling the sales of their products in many retail outlets across the planet, and that once a new version comes out the retail outlets only stock the new version and the staff are brain washed into telling their customers that there aren't any older versions of Microsoft to buy...and the fact that their are many major companies producing cheap crappy computers with a version of Windows on them (also being controlled by Microsoft).....so I guess that stepping stone could be a difficult one to overcome...

 

But even in the scheme of things, even if I am just one insignificant little company trying to do the best for my customers....many are already asking about Mac...the sad thing is I don't see Mac producing or filling local retail outlets with cheap crappy computers that have their OS on them - but then again those that have seen the light buy Mac because they aren't afraid to pay more for their reliable computers....

 

I am fed up with companies boasting about the processors, ssd drives, amount of memory on these cheap crappy computers being shoved on the unsuspecting public...many of them just think they are getting a good deal and not that the rest of the computer is being made of inferior components, and that they are coming to me with their new Windows 10 computers that are basically going slow from the outset....and want me to speed them up a bit....

 

The amount of referrals to the local Mac store is going up - but I am just an insignificant speck in the great scheme of things...

 

Getting off my soap box now...

 

bookie32

 

[bookie32]

Sorry

Just realised doh!

Realistically, anyone with any savvy will NOTfind it a very difficult decision to move to Mac or Linux.

 

 

Hate to say it, but selling ad space for even a measly 100 million pairs of eyeballs will keep the lights on in Redmond.  They haven't failed.

 

And they will continue degrading older versions by loading them up with Windows Updates that take them in directions never expected by the folks with those old licenses, so I expect the Win 10 usage will go up to probably 200 million at least in the coming few years.

 

Realistically, anyone with any savvy will find it a very difficult decision to move to Mac or Linux.

 

 

 

 

-Noel

 

bookie32

[NoelC]

No, I meant it the way I wrote it. 

 

People who have invested time and effort into learning Windows aren't going to easily be able to just "switch" on a whim.  These are the people I'm calling "savvy".  Some even have developed businesses to sell into the Windows market.  How difficult is that to change?  Not trivial, certainly.

 

I'm not pro-Windows 10, not at all, but I'm just being realistic.  Those who do find value in running Windows will inevitably find themselves using Windows 10 - it's just a matter of time.  There may be a few who are completely happy with an old version, but even many of them sooner or later will experience a failure of some sort and be forced into a hard decision:  Windows?  Mac/Linux?  Farming?

 

Many users do need just to surf the internet, maybe buy a few things, order pizza.  They may find an iPad to their liking (hey, we have one here; I'm not planning to buy a Windows tablet even though I am a dyed-in-the-wool career software engineer with a business that sells to the Windows market).

 

-Noel

[bphlpt]

I'm not pro-Windows 10, not at all, but I'm just being realistic.  Those who do find value in running Windows will inevitably find themselves using Windows 10 - it's just a matter of time.  There may be a few who are completely happy with an old version, but even many of them sooner or later will experience a failure of some sort and be forced into a hard decision:  Windows?  Mac/Linux?  Farming?

 

Now Noel, I seem to remember that you said something similar about Windows 8.x, yet you now say you will be "left out in the cold" if you remain with Windows 8.1 as the other 8.x users are probably the most likely to switch to Windows 10, while those of us, many, many of us, who happily stuck with Windows 7 continue merrily along.  I agree that Microsoft desperately wants us to "upgrade", and we very well might be forced to at some point due to "a failure of some sort", but yet there are devoted users of XP, Win2K, and even Win9x that valiantly continue on to this day.

 

I also agree that the vast majority of "users do need to just surf the internet, maybe buy a few things, order pizza."  That's where the lion's share of the user market will go, as long as the equipment is inexpensive, reliable, and familiar and/or easy to use.  So I understand that's why MS tried to force the same interface across all platforms to build familiarity and make the decision for the user to pick a Windows mobile platform an easy one.  But that effort failed in the mobile market and the interface was not familiar and easy for computer users so it is failing there, too, even when it's "free" to address the cost aspect.  Not to mention the recent emphasis on privacy concerns, etc.  Anyway, Windows 10 doesn't do anything better for the "vast majority" than the iPad, Android tablet, and the other such products including any smart phone, so those are what the "vast majority" will keep using.  And as dencorso pointed out, many large businesses are just now switching from XP to Windows 7, so that market should continue for awhile.

 

If I really need a computer, and dealing with a Microsoft product just becomes more trouble than it's worth, even I am looking more and more at Linux, maybe ChaletOS as bookie32 pointed out (Thanks bookie ), see here and/or here and here. since it seems inexpensive, easy, and has a familiar interface.

 

And as you have said, with all the stuff that Microsoft is doing, even if we think it is crap and/or invasive, they will most likely continue to keep the lights on for some time to come.  They are just continuing to lose our respect and their reputation as a market leader and innovator, at least to many of us.

 

Cheers and Regards

[NoelC]

 

If I really need a computer, and dealing with a Microsoft product just becomes more trouble than it's worth, even I am looking more and more at Linux, maybe ChaletOS as bookie32 pointed out (Thanks bookie ), see here and/or here and here. since it seems inexpensive, easy, and has a familiar interface.

 

I've considered alternatives as well.

 

But here we are, still running Windows.  We do not easily give up all the knowledge we have gained and become a newbie again.

 

Our computers still work.  I even bought a brand new one 5 months ago that was able to take a Windows 7 install.  All I'm saying is that that's not going to keep.  At some point we will be forced into a choice that does not include doing nothing.  Microsoft is actively working to make that happen.

 

-Noel

Edited September 15, 2015 by NoelC

[bphlpt]

No argument from me.  I'm just saying that one could take that argument to extremes.  I mean after all, at some point they are going to produce systems that can no longer run Windows 10, so taking that approach we might just as well give up and quit using computers at all.  Actually, that does have some merit since in some ways we as a society might be better off with less technology and more personal interactions.  Being forced to think for and entertain ourselves would probably have some long term benefits.

 

But in the meantime, "Our computers still work."  So I'll keep on keeping on.  Not with blinders on, mind you.  But I still see no convincing argument to change, yet.

 

Cheers and Regards

[NoelC]

Thinking long-term here...

 

Ask yourself, why does _______ still work on Windows __?

 

In my case, I might substitute ("Visual Studio", Photoshop", "Subversion", and any number of tools/utilities that facilitate my work) for the first and "(7, 8.1)" for the second.  Others might just care about 7, and still others might say XP.

 

You, of course, have tools YOU rely upon and can fill in your own blanks.

 

So why is using these tools on these versions of Windows still viable?

 

• The answer is:  Because what I can do with ______ on __ is valuable to someone.
    
• A secondary answer is:  Because Windows __ is still in use by hundreds of millions of people.
    
• A tertiary concern is:  Because Microsoft has always considered compatibility important.

 

Now think about where we are, and why the above answers are changing (long term):

 

• Microsoft - good idea or no - is actively deprecating the desktop and thus at some point will be leaving behind compatibility with everything that has come before, even though they don't have anything new that replaces it all.  They certainly have the manpower to have created a Windows 7-like theme and to have polished the Windows 10 desktop into being second to none in usability. They chose not to.  They don't want us doing computing as we have done.  In fact, for anyone involved in the pre-release program, it's clear they barely decided to revive the desktop for Win 10 at the last moment.  Put bluntly, Win 10 build 10240 might run your ______ today but Win 10 build 12xxx almost certainly won't.  Our skills and knowledge are being thrown away, whether we like it or not.
   
• The user base of the "old" Windows system is eroding.  Not by terribly fast, and if we're lucky the usage will stay in the hundreds of millions for some years to come.  But make no mistake, Microsoft is actively working - presumably without stepping over clear legal boundaries - to change what people feel is valuable.  Fortunately, it takes a lot of talent to do that, so they haven't succeeded wildly just yet.
   
• They have decided to force people down their chosen path going forward.  It's not by accident or by any engineering limitation that they have locked down the Windows Update process.  They know they can't get everyone to upgrade on the merits of a newer, better system, so they're trying to dupe everyone into "up"grading to whatever they actually CAN build.  Once locked in, you really will be faced with "stay on the bandwagon" or "jump to a different bandwagon".  There will be no "lagging behind".  Today we can put build 10240's balls in a vice and control Windows Updates - barely.  It's not hard to imagine a version where that's impossible.
   
• Also, our "old" Windows __ systems are being actively degraded by Microsoft through Windows Updates.  Today we can *just barely* separate updates we want from those that further Microsoft's goals to make you hate Windows __.  That's not going to keep.  And regarding what we're already running...  Think carefully about this:  What have they already drop-loaded in there?  They've been thinking up this strategy for most of a decade now, and we can't see the source code.  What if your system became slower and slower and more and more buggy?  That used to be "tin foil hat" talk, but today?

 

What does this all mean?

 

No less than this:  We're seeing the beginning of the end of the ability to continue as we have been.  It will come to an either/or decision, well before we want it to - because "the dark side only deals in absolutes."

 

-Noel

[bookie32]

Hi guys!

 

NoelC

OK I stand corrected on your original statement....

 

I, of course, understand your point of view and am grateful for you pointing out it in more detail...and yes a lot of us have invested time, money and energy into learning Windows - but by the same token if people are going to have to learn a new system, desktop etc and for many that is a big deal - then many will choose another path like Mac or Linux.

 

The reason I learnt Linux in the first place is I wanted a reliable system for my servers that didn't cost an arm and a leg....Linux doesn't offer everything that Windows does on that subject - but the cost is time and not a hole in your bank balance...

 

I can't remember that last time I used Windows to create an image of a customer computer...I tend to use Clonezilla these days...but as NoelC says it means becoming a newbie and learning something new and many wont want to make that effort...

 

I am glad to say I am not a total newbie to Linux and it wont hurt me as much as others to make the switch...

 

The average home user will not have a problem moving to Mac or Linux...but huge corporations that have invested huge sums of money in the Microsoft way - then, of course, that is another story...

 

If Microsoft continue down the path they are going - then I hope it has a big cliff at the end of it an put us all out of our misery....

 

I am just wondering where this leaves the games community....games that demand more and more of a graphics card, processor, memory etc...just take a look at some of the rigs people are building to run their games!!

 

What are Microsoft going to do for them?

 

Like I said before...most games users don't spend much time wondering about the OS just their ability to play their games...

 

This is a great opportunity for the games developers to think about Linux as a long term solution...

 

I, for one, will not just sit back and accept the crap that is going on right now and I can run my Windows programs for some time to come in Linux the good thing is as more powerful components become available the programs one needs to use to run Windows products wont be a drain on resources that are noticeable...

 

I will, however, continue to use Windows 7 on my works computers for as long as their is support for it even if it means installing it on a new computer if my older ones die on me...but after Windows 7 unless Microsoft change their attitude it will be bye, bye for good!

 

bphlpt:

Thanks for the links....I have actually seen them before and have commented on this guys favourite Linux...

 

There are so many different versions available it can make your head spin...everyone is basing their version on another version that is based on another version and so on...

 

bookie32

 

 

[ralcool]

A supportive argument of maintenance for an OS goes like this,

 

One of my systems (not in my Sig..) is Windows 7, 32bit. Roughly 8- 9years old, Grandfathers' axe.

 

It has the horsepower to do what it does. Run Win32 programs. Lots of collected stuff over many many years.

 

Hex editors, screen grabbers, iso rippers, Eprom burning tools, sizable pron collection... whatever.

 

Now....not first time.... a motherboard failure put the machine out of action, it actually blew the fuse in the psu as well. Nasty.

 

Okay, Well normally I'd use the opportunity to perform an upgrade.  A shiny new i5 or 7... No.

 

I hunted about to find the exact same board to replace! (Although anything in the P4x series would've sufficed probably)

 

And the primary reason was because Windows 7 wouldn't care- and boot again normally like nothing happened.

 

The true value of my machine is its contents- not the OS.. but the OS is imperative to operate the contents.

 

And for those who would suggest a simple matter of reinstalling Windows and contents really doesn't appreciate how non-trivial that can be.

 

Linux will never run any of my old/abandoned/unsupported, totally useful software I have- and know how to use.

 

No 'app' will ever have the depth or complexity of good well written Win32 programs.

 

Scale up my situation to larger businesses or technical operations. I can see the friction.

 

Cheers.