Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble

MSFN is made available via donations, subscriptions and advertising revenue. The use of ad-blocking software hurts the site. Please disable ad-blocking software or set an exception for MSFN. Alternatively, register and become a site sponsor/subscriber and ads will be disabled automatically. 


Feamane

BFG nVIDIA GeForce 7800GS OC on Win98

Recommended Posts

Hi again,

I am trying to build a new Win98SE game machine and have run into another problem.  I have spent all day reading here and search the web, but have found no answers.

Basic info:
ASRock 4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0 (VIA PT880 Pro/Ultra) with 512MB RAM
BFG nVIDIA GeForce 7800GS OC 256MB
DirectX 9.0c

Thanks to the help here I have the SATA running with an SSD and am getting 99MB/s Avg speed according to DiskSpeed32, which is better than I've ever gotten before on any of my Win98 boxes.  I also have the BFG nVIDIA GeForce 7800GS OC 256MB working using Maximus-Decim's nVIDIA 82.69 Version 1.03 drivers which I could never get to work before, so there is light at the end of the tunnel!  I had tried the BFG NVIDIADisplayWin9x(82_16) and ZakMcKracken 82_69 Driver Edition 0.0.2.1 but neither of those worked for me.

Now, I just have one problem remaining.  When I run 3DMark 2001 I get a score of 12829 with the new setup, while I was getting 14338 before with the old eVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6800 128MB and SATA HDD (which got only 66MB/s on DiskSpeed32).  "Vertical Sync" is turned OFF.

Very disappointing to get a worse score!

Trying to troubleshoot I looked at the AGP Settings tab in the NVIDIA Display Control Panel and see the following information:

Capability    GPU    Chipset    OS    Optimal
AGP version    3.0    3.5    3.0    3.0
Max AGP rate    8x    8x    2x    8x
Fast writes    Yes    Yes    No    Yes

So, is this information accurate?  When it says "OS" does it mean the Via hardware driver for the AGP?  Or is it referring to some other parts of Win98?  Does anybody else get this same information from the NVIDIA Display Control Panel?

I have been using the Via 4.56 driver set for the motherboard, and everything seems to be working.  I also tried installing the Via Pro5.15A AGP driver as a test, but no difference either in the NVIDIA Display Control Panel or 3DMark 2001.

So, is my problem that Win98 is not compatible with AGP 8x and Fast Writes?  Do I need a different Via AGP driver?  Or is there some other parts of Win98 that need to be upgraded?

Thanks,
DJ

 

nvidia_agp.jpg

Edited by Feamane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you set "AGP Mode" to 8x and did you enable "AGP Fast Write" in BIOS?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get a score of 21910 with XFX 7800GS 256MB. I believe I have the same drivers as you installed for mobo and gpu. nVidia control panel shows OS AGP 2x and fast write is Yes. Mobo has 3GB of RAM of which 2 are currently enabled in 9x.
 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, schwups said:

Did you set "AGP Mode" to 8x and did you enable "AGP Fast Write" in BIOS?

Yes, definitely!

Thanks,

DJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, loblo said:

I get a score of 21910 with XFX 7800GS 256MB. I believe I have the same drivers as you installed for mobo and gpu. nVidia control panel shows OS AGP 2x and fast write is Yes. Mobo has 3GB of RAM of which 2 are currently enabled in 9x.
 

It is good to know what kind of score I should be getting.  Interesting that you show Fast Write as "YES" for the OS and I don't, what part of Win98 controls that?  The one difference is I have 512MB instead of 2GB RAM, could that be the only reason for the big performance difference?  I tried different AGP Aperture sizes but I receive the same test result so that doesn't seem to make any difference.  I have 1GB of RAM on order, so waiting for that to arrive to try that.

Any other ideas?

Thanks,

DJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to clarify the only differences between the old build and the new one.

OLD
ASRock 775V88 (VIA PT880)
Via 4.56 driver set
Pentium 4 550 3400MHz LGA775
512MB RAM
SATA HDD 66MB/s avg. throughput speed according to DiskSpeed32
eVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6800 128MB
nVIDIA 81.98
DirectX 9.0c
3DMark 2001 score 14338

NEW
ASRock 4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0 (VIA PT880 Pro/Ultra)
Via 4.56 driver set (also tried the Via Pro5.15A AGP driver)
Pentium Dual-Core E5300 2600MHz (should be about 17% faster according to UserBenchmark)
512MB RAM
SATA SSD (with RLoew's ATA0104A) 99MB/s avg. throughput speed according to DiskSpeed32
BFG nVIDIA GeForce 7800GS OC 256MB
Maximus-Decim's nVIDIA 82.69 Version 1.03
DirectX 9.0c
3DMark 2001 score 12829

Thanks,

DJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't really have an idea but have you tried and benched your 6800 in the new system? Maybe it's just less compatible, being multicore and presumably more recent hardware. And has your new system this increase in  performance per core or only overall, as you only use one core with 9x.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, loblo said:

I don't really have an idea but have you tried and benched your 6800 in the new system? Maybe it's just less compatible, being multicore and presumably more recent hardware. And has your new system this increase in  performance per core or only overall, as you only use one core with 9x.
 

Good questions.  For the CPU comparison:

GeekBench 3 (Single core)
Data courtesy Primate Labs
Pentium E5300    1,358
Pentium 4 550    908

So yes, in single core the E5300 should be faster than the 550.

I have not tried the 6800 with the new motherboard and CPU yet, I will have to try it.  Good suggestion.

I'm very curious why your nVidia control panel shows OS AGP Fast Write = Yes and mine doesn't.  Do you use one of the unofficial services packs?

Thanks,

DJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've checked in my BIOS while booting this morning and, as schwups mentioned above, AGP Fast Write setting is in it just below the AGP Aperture Size one and it's enabled.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I started my last machine Asus P4V800D-X with AGP and installed 3DMark2001SE to compare.

System: Win ME, Via PT880 Ultra, NV GF5900XT 128MB, 2GB DDR3200 Ram (Dual Channel), P4 Northwood 2600MHz - FSB 800, Socket 478, driver NV 82.16 - no panel "AGP Settings" under NV GF FX 5900XT properties, not sure about the Chipset driver - Viagartinf DriverVer=06/29/2006,4.9.0.3460.

Everest confirms current AGP Speed 8x and Fast-Write enabled.

Benchmark score: 11253
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/8/2020 at 5:32 AM, loblo said:

I get a score of 21910 with XFX 7800GS 256MB. I believe I have the same drivers as you installed for mobo and gpu. nVidia control panel shows OS AGP 2x and fast write is Yes. Mobo has 3GB of RAM of which 2 are currently enabled in 9x.
 

I'd be super happy if I could get that score on this rig!

I've been trying some things, all to no avail.  I upgraded the memory from 512MB PC3200 DDR400 to 1GB PC2-5300 DDR2-667 and it improved the 3DMark 2001 score from 12829 to 14217, while I was getting 14338 with the eVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6800 and the 512MB of RAM.

I tried changing the AGP aperture to various settings with no apparent affect.

I also played with overclocking the card to Core 437 and Memory 703, but the difference in the benchmark score was negligible--so I don't think that's worth pursuing further.

I tried installing an ASUS nVIDIA GeForce 7600GS 256MB, but neither the MDG nor the Zak 82.69 drivers will work with it, can't even finish booting windows once the drivers are installed.

Also tried downgrading to the eVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6800 128MB card and I got a small bump in the score to 15082.  This is with the official 81.98 drivers.  So the memory and CPU upgrades allowed the 6800 to score about 300 points higher that it was before, yet I can't get the 7800 to perform even up to the level of the 6800.  :realmad:

So it would seem that while the MDG 82.69 drivers allow the 7800GS card to work in this setup, they are not allowing the full potential of the card under win98.

Are you installing any of the unofficial updates or anything like that which might be enabling you to get the most out of your card?

Anybody else got any ideas?

Thanks,

DJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3Dmark01 is not a good check 3Dmark03 would be better though it still doesn't test pixel shader 3. Trying to push the card faster with BIOS settings is not always best as there seems to be less driving force if broader video window and faster settings are used but if all is working then it is OK to try. If not improving speed then perhaps tame it down a bit. Better to choose your own games for testing and use Fraps for 98 available from MajorGeeks.com. A score of 12829 for those old games would still be at a high frame rate. I get about 15000 points on 3Dmark03 with 7900GS 256MB. The official 81.98 did make some games work a bit better but sacrificed the PCI cards. https://msfn.org/board/topic/175188-ati-widescreen-support-for-win9x/?do=findComment&comment=1157304

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's astonishing how many scores I get more with a 7900GS PCIE 256MB - 40507 scores (3DMark2001SE). System: P5KPL/1600, 3,5 GB RAM DDR2-800 DualChannel, CPU Core2DUO E8500, driver NV 82.69, Win ME.

Edited by schwups

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been trying a bunch of different BIOS settings, nothing seems to give me any improvement.  I have tried disabling just about all the AGP settings and just enabling one at a time, but none of them seem to make any difference.  So right now most of the BIOS settings are stock, with options that won't work with Win98 disabled.  I've been reading up on the BIOS settings to try to learn what they do and testing anything that seems it might help/hurt.

I also tried upgrading the CPU from a Pentium Dual-Core E5300 2600MHz (800MHz FSB) to a Pentium Dual-Core E6800 3330MHz (1066MHz FSB).  This didn't change the 3DMark scores all that much.

I upgraded the memory to 2GB DDR2-800MHz PC2-6400 to make sure it's running at the the motherboard max of 333MHz, no difference.  I did notice that with my BIOS set to Auto it seems to run the memory at the default 266MHz instead of 333MHz so I have to set it manually.  I'm using CPU-Z to determine that since I can't get Sandra to run on this system since I don't have IE (98Lite).

According to DiskSpeed32 I'm getting 99MB/s avg. speed with the SATA2 SSD.  I have DirectX 9.0c installed, which is what I was using with the old rig.  I have also tried installing the GeForce drivers before DirectX, and also after--no difference.

For the current testing I'm just running the desktop at 1024x768x16bits.

My current 3DMark scores are:
2000    11669
2001    16558
2003    5003

I downloaded FRAPS 1.9d and will have to try it out with a game.

So I'm not getting scores anywhere near what other people have reported in this thread.

The one thing that really stands out as possibly indicating the bottleneck is the AGP Settings tab in the NVIDIA Display Control Panel showing the OS as being limited to AGP 2x and no Fast Writes while it reports that the GPU and Chipset have both 8x and yes Fast Writes.  Does this indicate a problem with the Via hardware driver for the AGP (I've tried Via AGP drivers from version 4.56v up to 5.12A so far and have not seen any difference)?  Or is it referring to some other parts of Win98?

Another thought--I'm using plain 98Lite, no unofficial service packs installed.  Is there something in the service packs that improves AGP performance in Win98?

Thanks,

DJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you didn't change a fsb jumper, new cpu is probably running at old speed.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...