One billion people using Windows 10 ...

[MrNadix]

47 minutes ago, Bruninho said:

If only they had given the option to show the start menu like the classic one (but with the modern fluent design, of course) then it wouldnt be that bad. They could even compete with the Classic/Open Shell add-on. Same goes for the file explorer - needs more customization to give the users a 9x feel on newer design. This way they can cater for the whole audience. The file explorer is so bad that I had even thought about using the old WinFile they did for Windows 10 on GitHub.

But no, they do not listen us...

Microsoft isn't going to listen us. Modern Microsoft only listens one kind of people, their investors, they only want to still updating Windows spending as less money as possible, is sad, really sad. Yes, i'm going to keep my Windows 7/Vista/XP installation until i can and if i need something not supported i'm going to use my Manjaro partition because if this thrend continues, windows 10 is going to be as unstable or more as the pre-reset longhorn builds (i never saw other Windows version deleting personal user files) and about the telemetry/spyware i don't going to say anything because everyting is said.

I  keep all my computers running XP except my main laptop, that laptop unafortunelly only supports 10, no GNU/Linux tho, only W10.

Edited May 15, 2020 by MrNadix
"or more"

[win32]

2 hours ago, MrNadix said:

that laptop unafortunelly only supports 10, no GNU/Linux tho, only W10.

I just went through that with my father's ASUS Kaby Lake laptop. It could probably run W7/8.1 but no one wants to buy extra licences so I tried Linux and had issues with the several distros I tried. One of the GPUs seemed to keep crashing Xorg or the WM. Tried GhostBSD but the touchpad didn't work. So it was back to W10.

Open-Shell has definitely improved on the classic start menu, but I do feel that the way it implements its explorer modifications is quite strange, being inside the ribbon interface. So I would prefer the Windows 2000 shell, especially with an option to have the taskbar the way it was before Windows 7 (the grouping of items is odd to me, as is the mixing of "quick launch" items with other taskbar items). Maybe we should recompile Calmira as x86-32 or x64? Or maybe we can run NewShell from NT 3.51 since that is probably native win32. I think there's also an IBM Workplace Shell for NT, though that would be like using OS/2.

[cc333]

On 5/15/2020 at 2:23 PM, win32 said:

I just went through that with my father's ASUS Kaby Lake laptop. It could probably run W7/8.1 but no one wants to buy extra licences so I tried Linux and had issues with the several distros I tried. One of the GPUs seemed to keep crashing Xorg or the WM. Tried GhostBSD but the touchpad didn't work. So it was back to W10.

That's too bad.  It seems that many of the bigger PC makers are conspiring with MS to force everyone to use Win10 (Intel all but admitted to the fact when they announced that Kaby Lake onwards would have no official support for anything other than 10).

 

On 5/15/2020 at 2:23 PM, win32 said:

Open-Shell has definitely improved on the classic start menu

I still use the last closed-source version, Classic Shell 4.3.0, because I've had bad luck with Open Shell every time I've tried it (it *really* doesn't like Windows 7 or 8.x, as it crashes often and exhibits very strange UI glitches that render it unusable.

 

On 5/15/2020 at 2:23 PM, win32 said:

the way it implements its explorer modifications is quite strange, being inside the ribbon interface

That aspect doesn't bother me, as I don't use the feature (I use OldNewExplorer instead, as the Win Vista/7 Explorer UI, while still not my favorite, is in many ways far superior to the Ribbon UI in Win8 and up).

 

On 5/15/2020 at 2:23 PM, win32 said:

I would prefer the Windows 2000 shell, especially with an option to have the taskbar the way it was before Windows 7 (the grouping of items is odd to me, as is the mixing of "quick launch" items with other taskbar items)

Have you looked into 7+TaskBarTweaker?  It goes a long way toward making the taskbar more sane (it doesn't make it XP-like, but I'd say probably more Vista-like).

 

On 5/15/2020 at 2:23 PM, win32 said:

Maybe we should recompile Calmira as x86-32 or x64? Or maybe we can run NewShell from NT 3.51 since that is probably native win32. I think there's also an IBM Workplace Shell for NT, though that would be like using OS/2.

Yeah, that would be very nice.  If someone could find a way to make the Win2000/XP explorer.exe (with its original XP-style UI) work on 7 and up, that would pretty much solve all our usability problems.  It should be technically possible, except it probably links to various system dlls that have had their contents either rearranged or removed in newer Windows versions.  Perhaps with some kind of patch, the old explorer can be linked to renamed versions of any XP-compatible dlls it needs to work?

It should also be theoretically possible to get a 100% classic taskbar and start menu this way, if this hypothetical patched up explorer were set as the default shell.

c

Edited May 28, 2020 by cc333

[Bruninho]

There's a forum (WinClassic) where people have worked on bringing the classic theme back. As far as I know its a quite excellent work but requires too many handmade modification, it isn't just an one click solution like the Inexperience Patcher for XP.

Actually I just gave up modifying Win 10 and just accepted it as it is. It is just not worth the hassle. I basically installed Classic Shell, OldNewExplorer, changed a few bit and that was it. (I also went through the privacy/data collection/telemetry settings to shut the s**t down)

When Win 10 build 2004 comes, I expect to have a more bearable UI design with these new fluent design icons. As a designer I cannot stand the current icons (I hated the XP ones, can't believe they are still there).

But but but... I still prefer Win 9x/2000 UI.

[Jody Thornton]

3 hours ago, cc333 said:

Yeah, that would be very nice.  If someone could find a way to make the Win2000/XP explorer.exe (with its original XP-style UI) work on 7 and up, that would pretty much solve all our usability problems.  It should be technically possible, except it probably links to things various system dlls that have had their contents either rearranged or removed in newer versions.  Perhaps with some kind of patch so the old explorer can be linked to renamed versions of any XP-compatible dlls it needs would work?

It should also be theoretically possible to get a 100% classic taskbar and start menu this way, if this hypothetical patched up explorer were set as the default shell.

c

Try Explorer++ - I use it on Windows 8.  It really does look a lot like XP Explorer the way I have it set up.

[cc333]

On 5/15/2020 at 7:21 PM, Jody Thornton said:

Try Explorer++ - I use it on Windows 8.  It really does look a lot like XP Explorer the way I have it set up.

I think I have tried that, but it can't be set as the default shell and provide a taskbar and desktop, can it?

 

On 5/15/2020 at 4:15 PM, Bruninho said:

There's a forum (WinClassic) where people have worked on bringing the classic theme back. As far as I know its a quite excellent work but requires too many handmade modification, it isn't just an one click solution like the Inexperience Patcher for XP.

I know of that forum.  The work they've done there is remarkable, but the tools they've developed so far definitely still aren't reliable enough for day-to-day usage.

 

On 5/15/2020 at 4:15 PM, Bruninho said:

As a designer I cannot stand the current icons (I hated the XP ones, can't believe they are still there).

I've never minded XP's icons, though I do like the simpler look of 98 and 2000's icons quite a bit better.

It also amazes me that many of those icons are still embedded within the latest versions of 10, though they don't seem to be exposed in the UI as much, having been partially replaced with more updated equivalents (the "This PC", AKA "Computer", AKA "My Computer icon", for instance;  The windows 98 version of this is my favorite.)

c

[ZaPbUzZ]

so um you guys tried server 2016 or 2019? its a lot quieter online

[cc333]

19 minutes ago, ZaPbUzZ said:

so um you guys tried server 2016 or 2019? its a lot quieter online

No, I haven't.  Perhaps I should?

c

[win32]

30 minutes ago, cc333 said:

No, I haven't.  Perhaps I should?

Well, 2012R2 idles at 500-700 MB of RAM compared to nearly 1.5 GB for Windows 8.1. Given the tendency for the NT 6 servers to be relatively unbloated yet remaining very usable for desktop usage (not much to do after enabling desktop experience and WLAN; in fact it's even easier than to set up than Server 2003), I would say that Server 2016/2019 would be far better than regular Windows 10, and possibly better than LTSC (which I've managed to get it to idle at 1.1 GB).

You could make Windows 10 much lighter using a variety of tools, but the intrusiveness of that OS makes it difficult to keep it the way the user wants, so you may as well get an OS configured light OOB, like Windows Server.

I have 12 GB of RAM, and I like a game that many say is great with 16. Of course, most people play it on Windows 7/8.1/10. But the client versions use over 1.5 GB of RAM that could be better used with the game; so 2012R2 with RAM savings of over 800 MB could prove useful. Thankfully this game also supports XP x64 which uses even less RAM but that's a fluke, as most people (and at least some developers) think 64-bit computing started with Vista or 7.

I just need to install a new instance of XP x64, and then after that I'll set up 2019 and see how it compares.

Edited May 28, 2020 by win32

[ZaPbUzZ]

There are subtle differences between desktop and server. Marketing to windows 10 between some steam games tends to break on windows server 2019 their overly resource hungry mechanisms that shouldn't be in games anyhow. (Maybe its crypto mining)

There is no system reset and you may find sometimes manual installs of system patches need to be done that auto update can hang or queue not sure whats up with that.

NTlite is useful for admin style offline patching (get the update details from auto update paste in google get from microsoft catalog repair auto update in troubleshooter then install patch offline with NTlite)

Great side is a well respected custom anti malware HOST file is better in server 2016+ that Microsoft is usually blocked in many aspects in windows 10 that don't apply in server additions thus the constant try to connect will not be there and some being large HOST offerings they're not utilized as frequently. Less tracking and exploitation. Less network latency.

Given the COVID19 Pandemic and the internet shortages of everyone home bored online its a great deal less lag to surf without the "you can't think for yourself" internet cloud. 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by ZaPbUzZ
spelling grimmer punctuation