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My Browser Builds (Part 2)


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On 10/18/2020 at 7:35 AM, grey_rat said:

ArcticFoxie,
Hardware acceleration and layers.offmainthreadcomposition.async-animations are not active in NewMoon 27

I do have the offmainthread active but do not have hardware acceleration active.

I recall that I enabled offmainthread from a "fps" comparison and don't recall hardware acceleration making any difference so kept disabled.

But, apples to apples, I also do NOT enable hardware acceleration in Chromium either.

 

I'll do another side-by-side comparison later in the day as far as YouTube on NM27 vs NM28 vs Chromium v49.

The last time I did the comparison Chromium v49 "won" *easily*.

But I didn't try any YouTube addons in NM at the time.

 

I actually HIGHLY prefer NM27 over NM28.

One reason is the way that Stylem works in NM27 vs NM28.

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I apologize if it's already been referenced, but the thread is just too long.  But is there a way to extend the compilation life of x86 Basilisk 52?

My mom runs real Basilisk x86 on a 32-bit Windows 7 installation.  They run a lot older 16-bit Windows and BOWEP games from the early 90s, so 32-bit Windows 7 is just easier for them.  I suppose they can just continue to run the final 32-bit Basilisk release, but I just want to keep browsing safe for them.

Should I post this in the Windows 7 forum instead?  XP compatibility is no longer needed, but I figured this was the best thread to discuss all things Moon-Matt.

https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=25397

 

 

Edited by Jody Thornton
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11 hours ago, Sampei.Nihira said:

Can also use NM28.
My PC has roughly the same hardware.
But he has to choose his security configuration very conscientiously
Image below NM28 with 5 open tabs:

With "alot of tabs" I mean dozens to hundreds. ;-) In this case NM27 was much more responsive than NM28 on a A64 3000+ / 1 GiB. With just five tabs, you're right!

kind regards
soggi

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2 hours ago, Jody Thornton said:

I apologize if it's already been referenced, but the thread is just too long.  But is there a way to extend the compilation life of x86 Basilisk 52?

...I figured this was the best thread to discuss all things Moon-Matt.

https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=25397

You figured correctly IMO. There was already some discussion on October 9:

https://msfn.org/board/topic/180462-my-browser-builds-part-2/?do=findComment&comment=1188777

I’m sure that 32-bit Basilisk 52 will continue to be a topic of interest here.

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17 hours ago, soggi said:

With "alot of tabs" I mean dozens to hundreds. ;-) In this case NM27 was much more responsive than NM28

AGREED!

My computer has FIVE monitors and it's not uncommon during research projects to have FOUR of them with New Moon Windows each with a DOZEN or so tabs.

NM27 is much more responsive than NM28.

If you want to run a test, use this version of NM28 - http://o.rths.ml/palemoon/palemoon-28.1.0a1.win32-git-20180922-3c04affe2-xpmod.7z

That NM28 version will be just as snappy and responsive as NM27.

It was shortly into the 28.2.x versions that the NM28 sluggishness set in.

Edited by ArcticFoxie
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5 hours ago, ArcticFoxie said:

It was shortly into the 28.2.x versions that the NM28 sluggishness set in.

Although NM28 compatibility is great. I am also not satisfied with responsiveness of NM28 on my i3 Sandy Bridge laptop (4GM RAM). Even when considering that it is not a fast laptop. It has NM 28.8.0a1 from 2019-12-06. Responsiveness sometimes becomes particularly bad, and in that case closing tabs does not help. Restarting NM28 entirely usually helps. I will try the version you suggested for a while, seemingly dated 22-09-2018.

I don't think it is really fair to tie office.com outlook behavior in with this, as it is particularly heavy on resources. Typing emails there is lagging behind on this laptop. I suppose it is already remarkable that office.com works at all.

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I think you'll be happy with that NM28 version dated 2018.

I personally use a NM27 version dated 2017.

I will take quick, snappy, and responsive any day of the week over "patched for security".

"Security", in my view, is a d@mn dog chasing its own tail.

And, in my view, unless you're visiting p0rn sites or illegal downloads, then "security schmaacurity".

Most "security vulnerabilities fall in the realm of "stand on one foot, rub your bellie clockwise, tap your forhead, flush the toilet, cycle the furnace" and everything has to happen precisely within milliseconds to actually be "vulnerable" - one in a million shot...  Just never happens in "real life"...

I'm also NOT a fan of "feature creep" - explain to me why a browser targeting XP has code for Start Menu Tiles that are only Win 8 and higher ???

But I digress.  :buehehe:

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54 minutes ago, ArcticFoxie said:

I think you'll be happy with that NM28 version dated 2018.

I personally use a NM27 version dated 2017.

I will take quick, snappy, and responsive any day of the week over "patched for security".

"Security", in my view, is a d@mn dog chasing its own tail.

And, in my view, unless you're visiting p0rn sites or illegal downloads, then "security schmaacurity".

Most "security vulnerabilities fall in the realm of "stand on one foot, rub your bellie clockwise, tap your forhead, flush the toilet, cycle the furnace" and everything has to happen precisely within milliseconds to actually be "vulnerable" - one in a million shot...  Just never happens in "real life"...

I'm also NOT a fan of "feature creep" - explain to me why a browser targeting XP has code for Start Menu Tiles that are only Win 8 and higher ???

But I digress.  :buehehe:

Probably because the source material has the code

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5 hours ago, ArcticFoxie said:

explain to me why a browser targeting XP has code for Start Menu Tiles that are only Win 8 and higher

@roytam1's Pale Moon fork does not target Windows XP exclusively; it can run very well on Windows OSes past XP, i.e. Vista, 7, 8, 8.1, 10; "our" maintainer has, among other things, extended upstream support "below" the officially sanctioned Windows OSes, to include Vista/XP/2k (probably with "Extended Kernel" installed); I see no reason to remove support for OSes other than XP (this would be plainly selfish :angry: coming from XP users), since our UXP fork has already diverged enough from upstream to be a separate platform...

 I am aware of people (several of them here on MSFN) on Win7+ using New Moon 28  and/or MyPal 28 because they prefer them to the upstream offering... Divergence is more pronounced on the Serpent 52 fork, e.g. it has retained WebExtentions support, thus a person on, say, Win8.1 can't use official Basilisk if said person wants a "legacy-style" browser with additional WE support; e.g., recent discussion about WEs restoring "classic" Youtube layout comes to mind...

Denying people the ability to appreciate @roytam1's offerings on OSes other than Windows XP is an OS-discriminatory stance akin to the one exhibited by upstream, denying their applications to Vista/XP users :angry:; and I stand to be corrected, but Win8-specific codepaths in the platform won't even load when the application is launched under XP, so I wouldn't call "Start Menu Tiles" support in the platform/app code a "feature" that has "crept"... ;)

The majority of people here that have stayed on Win<7 are tied to some older hardware which, for a wide variety of reasons, don't want/can't make parts with... Each one's (older) hardware combination (motherboard, CPU, GPU, etc.) is probably unique, so it might be unwise to generalise on overall performance going just by one's own particular setup(s)... Thankfully, Roy tries to maintain a wider variety of forked browsers to accommodate most older setups, the key here is what works best for "you" (your H/W, S/W, workflow, etc.).

I'll refrain from commenting on your "security" views, I said recently that this is a (mostly) democratic community, thus all opinions are welcome/heard ;) (to the point they don't violate forum rules); FWIW, we have here proponents of both extremes on the subject of "security"... :P

Best regards :)

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17 hours ago, ArcticFoxie said:

My computer has FIVE monitors and it's not uncommon during research projects to have FOUR of them with New Moon Windows each with a DOZEN or so tabs.

Hardcore! And nice! I would like to have two monitors...maybe one day. I like the good old 4:3 ones and have a NEC MultiSync LCD 2180UX...with a second one would likely use the pivot function to work on my website project and for just reading.

But I run NM27 with hundreds of tabs...searching for old BIOSes, drivers, game patches and manuals requires this.

17 hours ago, ArcticFoxie said:

If you want to run a test, use this version of NM28 - http://o.rths.ml/palemoon/palemoon-28.1.0a1.win32-git-20180922-3c04affe2-xpmod.7z

Thanks, but I won't do that. I'm OK with the latest NM27, apart from the missing language pack and even more the not loading/working time line bar when using the Wayback Machine, the latter is quite annoying - maybe @roytam1can do something concerning this.

11 hours ago, gerwin said:

Although NM28 compatibility is great. I am also not satisfied with responsiveness of NM28 on my i3 Sandy Bridge laptop (4GM RAM). Even when considering that it is not a fast laptop.

Sorry, but...LOL!? Actually I'm using a IBM/Lenovo T60 with Intel Core 2 Duo T5600, Intel GMA 950, 1 GiB RAM and a relatively slow Toshiba MK8034GSX HDD. When I have used too many tabs of the hundreds opened ones or used a few (or sometimes just one) for PHP/JS bloated websites (keyword: WordPress, I hate it...), often I have to close and restart NM27 for "normal" use.

9 hours ago, ArcticFoxie said:

I will take quick, snappy, and responsive any day of the week over "patched for security".

"Security", in my view, is a d@mn dog chasing its own tail.

And, in my view, unless you're visiting p0rn sites or illegal downloads, then "security schmaacurity".

Nah...if it's kind of usable, I prefer to take the latest build. A working German language pack would be nice to have, but I'm OK with English. When it comes to OS, it's OK for me to take an older one (because I like pre WinVista much more), but a browser is more critical...and therefor I also use NoScript and Adblock Latitude to have a minimum of extra security - through my searches for my website I have to visit many, many different websites and some of them are at least questionable/dubious.

kind regards
soggi

Edited by soggi
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No disagreement on "security" perspectives.

I did point out that as far as browser preference goes, that the reality is that nobody can answer that question but you (the person that was asking which browser to use).

Sure, we have a lot of "cheerleaders" here that will say "use this browser, I use it and so should you" (paraphrasing, of course).

But I was striving to provide some "logical justifications" as to why I use NM27 over NM28.

I only use EIGHT add-ons so I don't doubt that my needs are for sure less "broad" than others.

I do take the security stance of "save often" and kinda don't 'care' if I get hit with a virus (I never have, knock on wood).

I keep a disk image handy for full unattended reinstall and don't save anything to the local hard drive.

My computer can crash and I'm back up fully operational in 20 minutes.  :thumbup

2020-10-21_2-54-09.jpg

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11 hours ago, soggi said:

I'm OK with the latest NM27, apart from the <snipped> not loading/working time line bar when using the Wayback Machine, the latter is quite annoying

Related upstream support forum thread:

https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=24993&p=197006

The website admins basically write code targeting very recent Javascript engines and/or Chrome-specific web technologies (e.g. ShadowDOM, part of Google Web Components); latest New Moon 28 should function correctly with WBM's timeline bar :); as for getting this to work under NM27, I can only guess it'd be an extremely difficult task, if at all achievable... :(

Best greetings :)

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Hi

On 10/18/2020 at 8:17 PM, VistaLover said:

Good Old Youtube also does a brilliant job of re-instating the non-polymer youtube interface (which is more lenient towards computer resources, especially applicable on older hardware/OSes), but, as it is an id-less Web Extension not supported on Serpent 55/52, it doesn't install out-of-the-box :( ; but if you modify its manifest.json file to include a gecko-id, then it will install (and work) OK!

I had the bad idea to take the latest version 1.15.2 of "Good Old Youtube" with the VistaLover modification. The add on has been changed to no longer work with Serpent 52.:dubbio:

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