Browsing the web on 98/ME in 2019 and beyond

[Bruninho]

3 hours ago, Goodmaneuver said:

Bruninho, What web site gives the wrong font family? I think you need to update fonts? I made a mistake SeaMonkey does not need 2K settings. Are you OK about changing KEX registry settings and the alteration to Core.ini?
 

Hi! No websites. It’s the browser UI fonts - different from the system UI and Some menu options have a small bold black vertical bar at the end of the texts. I will provide a screenshot when possible.

I think that SeaMonkey 2.6.1 (based on Fx 9) does not have this issue, but 2.7.2 (based on Fx 10) does.

As for KEX registry settings and Core.ini, as long as you point out what I need to change in them, I will be fine. I am a front-end web designer, I know a thing or two about programming. Hehehe.

If this all works out, I can try to test higher SeaMonkey versions. According to their website:

The last version for Windows with support for older CPUs not supporting the SSE2 instruction set was SeaMonkey 2.40.

The last version with Windows 2000 and Windows XP without SP2 support was SeaMonkey 2.9.

The last version supporting Windows XP/Server 2003 and Vista/Server 2008 was SeaMonkey 2.49.5.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Bruninho

[siria]

roytam's NewMoon26 and KM-Goanna74 (same engine) are compiled for Win2000. NM doesn't run on my 98se, but KG74 looks fine if KernelEx compat is set to Win2000 too, as was already mentioned by others.
My menu font looks normal, only KG74 menus in general have some killer bug on 98, under certain circumstances causing crashes (e.g. after deleting a menuline dynamically during session, or if a menuline contains forbidden(?) special words, etc). But that's only one of several killer bugs, and strongly suspect those are rather 'normal' and fixable KM bugs, not necessarily win98 related.

UI-fonts: no clue, but if prob remains and no real fix or better suggestions appear:
in Mozilla browsers with XUL-GUI (=not KM) adding a special css setting in profile/chrome/userChrome.css may help?
Or try a tweak in "ui.css" in default stylesheets? (path see post above, details search web ;-)

---

Tip for win98 fancy WEB fonts:
to see most (not all) fancy modern characters and emojis on current webpages, mainly on instagram, the widely recommended Symbola font works wonders. If it's Latin characters wouldn't look so absolutely awful, may even choose it as main font, not just as automatic fallback font for missing characters.
Must be copied into c:/windows/fonts folder, and then in K-Meleon chosen in
F2 > PageDisplay > Fonts
for several language groups in the dropdown menu, especially for Western, Other(UNICODE), Cyrillic, Central European or whatever is browsed.
For each, have font Symbola chosen in Cursive+Fantasy fields, that seems to work as automatic fallback if the main font misses single characters. Not sure how this works exactly and if both Cursive+Fantasy are needed, just glad it works. At least in KM. Also found 2 more emoji fonts which work, but overall they have much less characters as Symbola, so sticking with it.
Pref example to test in other Mozilla browsers:
font.name.cursive.x-unicode = Symbola
font.name.fantasy.x-unicode = Symbola
etc
Also saw this in my aboutconfig now, no idea if native or perhaps once added manually for testing, or perhaps THIS may be causing the automatic fallbacks? But can't harm anyway:
font.name-list.serif.x-unicode = Times New Roman, Microsoft Sans Serif, Symbola

---

Thanks for the Opera userstyle/userscript links!
Will try to learn it when getting around. For the moment still a bit postponing since it's a lot of work and old Opera currently only my 3rd fallback browser, but userstyles (css, e.g. for msfn) and userscripts (js) are absolutely essential functions today.
Always so much great info here and help stuff, very glad about it, but sadly getting around to learn it far less as I'd like too, sigh. And if not needing it in main browser then so quickly forgotten again. Always hope this forum will live forever and can look it up later again when some day needing it urgently ;-)

---

Google SEARCH width:
No idea about width on other computers, but just in case: that site depends strongly on useragents, at least the available options. After their recent server changes had to set ua FF10 to still get all menu options, older and younger didn't work, and fiddled with some minor css tweaks again. Still cursing though that the number of total HITS is now completely inaccessible, huge prob! Find absolutely no workaround - anyone a tip...?
Regarding WIDTH, mine shows also about 736px. No prob since that looks fine on 1024, but of course, if people with GIANT screens get the same one, that may be a bit tiny... Just for curiosity did a quick test what affects width in my current browser, and found this to work:
body, #main {width: 95% !important; max-width: none !important; }

[siria]

Bruninho said:
> KernelEx is updated to 4.5.2016 according to the verify.exe, although I got it from
> here: https://retrosystemsrevival.blogspot.com/2018/05/kernelex-45201617-updates.html
> which says a different version.

Thanks for posting this! Although I usually prefer to download from original topics on msfn here, but long since am not sure anymore exactly howto install KernelEx cumulative updates. Admittedly also haven't really researched it yet nor studied the first page lately, since last time my update attempts were a nightmare, and probably not getting around anytime soon to such a major undertaking again.
But now just took a quick look at this blog page, noticed it has detailed installation instructions, and an easily accessible download, which hopefully is a complete compilation of everything after basic 4.5.2? And it contains an update.bat file, which I'm not necessarily planning to use, but its content now has my hopes flying high: There's only a bunch of new files to drop into windows/kernelex Folder? Is that really all, no registry mess to fear or anything landing in the normal Windows system folders (neither manually nor automagically)? Which hopefully means if anything goes wrong or doesn't work, I could simply copy back the previous files again in DOS? Not needing to do a backup of whole Windows folder again?? If so, an update seems finally in reach again...

Regarding this update.bat, have no clue about DOS and syntax, but wonder if there's a typo here?
if exist %src%\*.exe xcopy %src%\*.dll %dst%\kernelex\ /-Y

Edited March 4, 2020 by siria

[Goodmaneuver]

Important: I have MP4 files set to open KMP in CometBird so Pncrt can not be used as a MSVCRT substitute in CometBird because Msvcp60 gets involved and Pncrt has not got __lc_collate_cp. Hence Pncrt if used as Msvcrt will be in memory from CometBird. I will edit my post shortly.

I have uploaded Core.ini version 20 which is current version with the mods Jumper wanted though Win95 setting is enhanced with several functions yet de-enhanced by removing IsProcesorFeaturePresent I think it is a conflict of improvement and de-improvement since Win98+ was meant to be backward compatible with Win95.

By opening Regedit.exe the KernelEx settings are here [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\KernelEx\AppSettings] We need to make a manual adjustment when we want to make a group of files use the same setting. For example *\MSVC* = BASE. There are two sections; the Configs section; this is where the specific mode changes are and the Flags section; this is where the disabled and override modes are set in DWORD. Make sure when adjusting the Configs section with a new String Value that there are no other conflicts. For example files count as the having the same name, (ie MCVCP60 is equivalent name as MSVC* for example), and having two different Configs settings is a conflict. You can not also have for example a file set to run say as NT40 and a Flags setting of 1 which is a more common error to search for. Entries with Flags setting of zero can be removed for clean up purposes.

 

CORE.zip

Edited March 11, 2020 by Goodmaneuver
Mistake in Core.ini

[Bruninho]

I will need to see this with more time this weekend. I have medical exams to do because of an unknown gastrointestinal problem. Currently I am fine.

btw it’s not possible to make a .reg file with the changes so we just have to merge?  Reproducing all the steps you did to get where you are with your win98 could bring more people (like me) to test and help for more data to improve, for example. Just a guess. I have to go now, long night ahead and I have been missing sleep hours (probably this is part of my problems).

[Goodmaneuver]

It is not advisable to merge KEX settings. The registry is running in RAM and is in a special order. If we export the KernelEx AppSettings settings delete the entries then sort the exported reg file entries in alphabetically order for instance in each section then merge back again, a system restore will probably be necessary, it will not work. Manually added registry entries need to be done or use the file properties KernelEx drop-down menu. You can merge a good copy of AppSettings into a deleted AppSettings section if order of entries have not been altered. Merging without deleting first is on track to make conflicts happen. A reg file can be made from NotePad if first line has REGEDIT4 then next line usually is blank or use an exported file and empty out unwanted entries then fill in new ones. Keep well.
 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Goodmaneuver

[Bruninho]

I'm back from my exams. Still one more to do, though. I'm feeling perfectly fine so far, yet I'm still under treatment for my gastrointestinal problem.

Anyway, about Windows 98... I think I will just restart everything and redo the VM from scratch so I can follow each step carefully to do all the things that were mentioned here. I still don't know what I should do though - there is so much information flying here on this forum that sometimes one things says X, other thing says Y. But this time when I finish installing the OS and update all the drivers, I'll do a snapshot so I don't need to reinstall again.

EDIT: Created a new VM, installed vmware tools, sb16 drivers, directx9c, USB drivers and checked everything working on device manager, so did a snapshot. Now I have to figure out what next. Probably install KEX and try to find out how to update it properly. There's no easy way out... (Rocky Balboa vibes).

EDIT2: Actually I think I forgot to install the unofficial service pack updates first. Will do it now, so if anything goes wrong, I still have a pure snapshot to go back.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Bruninho

[Bruninho]

On 3/4/2020 at 12:17 PM, siria said:

Bruninho said:
> KernelEx is updated to 4.5.2016 according to the verify.exe, although I got it from
> here: https://retrosystemsrevival.blogspot.com/2018/05/kernelex-45201617-updates.html
> which says a different version.

Thanks for posting this! Although I usually prefer to download from original topics on msfn here, but long since am not sure anymore exactly howto install KernelEx cumulative updates. Admittedly also haven't really researched it yet nor studied the first page lately, since last time my update attempts were a nightmare, and probably not getting around anytime soon to such a major undertaking again.
But now just took a quick look at this blog page, noticed it has detailed installation instructions, and an easily accessible download, which hopefully is a complete compilation of everything after basic 4.5.2? And it contains an update.bat file, which I'm not necessarily planning to use, but its content now has my hopes flying high: There's only a bunch of new files to drop into windows/kernelex Folder? Is that really all, no registry mess to fear or anything landing in the normal Windows system folders (neither manually nor automagically)? Which hopefully means if anything goes wrong or doesn't work, I could simply copy back the previous files again in DOS? Not needing to do a backup of whole Windows folder again?? If so, an update seems finally in reach again...

Regarding this update.bat, have no clue about DOS and syntax, but wonder if there's a typo here?
if exist %src%\*.exe xcopy %src%\*.dll %dst%\kernelex\ /-Y

Right now I've just installed them all manually and carefully (after a little headache). So far I haven't tested any software yet, but kernelex reports its working OK. No issues when running verify.exe. I'm about to try some software like newer SeaMonkey versions, starting with 2.9.

@Goodmaneuver: As for the Core.ini updates posted above, I still haven't tried it. Actually... what should I do? Just drop the Core.ini? Which regedit tweaks should I do after that, if necessary? I currently do not have any software installed with Kernelex, only before Kernelex install, like 7-zip 9.20 and winzip 10.0.

Actually, with 7-zip, I dont get the icons for the .7z files. I think I need to associate them.

So far I think I am doing well with this VM. Didn't try to browse the internet or play any game yet. Next I will try to install the LAVFilters and VSFilter that were recommended to me in another forum thread by @loblo.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Bruninho

[Bruninho]

I've installed the KEX updates (except the above provided Core.ini) and I went to try again SeaMonkey 2.7.2 with the Fx10 NSS updates. (SM 2.7.2 is based on Fx10). All attempts to load Google.com crashes the browser and hangs the program. I have to CTRL ALT DEL to end the task. When I try to load sites like http://lite.cnn.io, it loads quickly and as expected. Probably SM 2.7.2 can't handle heavy sites... but google.com isn't a heavy site!

[FantasyAcquiesce]

On 3/4/2020 at 7:17 AM, siria said:

Bruninho said:
> KernelEx is updated to 4.5.2016 according to the verify.exe, although I got it from
> here: https://retrosystemsrevival.blogspot.com/2018/05/kernelex-45201617-updates.html
> which says a different version.

Thanks for posting this! Although I usually prefer to download from original topics on msfn here, but long since am not sure anymore exactly howto install KernelEx cumulative updates. Admittedly also haven't really researched it yet nor studied the first page lately, since last time my update attempts were a nightmare, and probably not getting around anytime soon to such a major undertaking again.
But now just took a quick look at this blog page, noticed it has detailed installation instructions, and an easily accessible download, which hopefully is a complete compilation of everything after basic 4.5.2? And it contains an update.bat file, which I'm not necessarily planning to use, but its content now has my hopes flying high: There's only a bunch of new files to drop into windows/kernelex Folder? Is that really all, no registry mess to fear or anything landing in the normal Windows system folders (neither manually nor automagically)? Which hopefully means if anything goes wrong or doesn't work, I could simply copy back the previous files again in DOS? Not needing to do a backup of whole Windows folder again?? If so, an update seems finally in reach again...

Regarding this update.bat, have no clue about DOS and syntax, but wonder if there's a typo here?
if exist %src%\*.exe xcopy %src%\*.dll %dst%\kernelex\ /-Y

Error on my part

I simply got files starting from the earliest version and kept adding new files with newer versions. There's probably junk files included. I did this because the updates provided here did not appear to provide all updated components. For example version 24c has 8 of 13 files replaced in the previous 23 version. I just keep the old files together for consistency.

I initially backed up these files on my blog in fear of MSFN having another crash like a few years ago that caused the loss of a couple KernelEx updates.

Version numbers are the same at the end, but I only changed the year for more accurate documentation of update. I probably shouldn't have done that.

Edited March 9, 2020 by FantasyAcquiesce

[Goodmaneuver]

>what should I do? Just drop the Core.ini?

Yes replace the other Core.ini then reboot.

>7-zip, I dont get the icons for the .7z files. I think I need to associate them

Associate them within the 7zip program.

LAVFilters in the next post from Loblo's in WonderBar's topic, the MSFN S/C has in the site I showed for LAV33 & 50 has most releases & can choose up to 70.2-16.

Reg KEX entries depend on what file versions you are using but I think older versions would be KEX setting compatible with the newer versions, The entries in this topic are a start.

>but google.com isn't a heavy site!

If the servers do not like the browser then they can block access. When I change hard drives which have slightly different builds and different browser profiles, I have to log on to MSFN forum each time. When my limit of 5 logons failed. I was locked out for a few minutes which is normal but I was also locked out of all internet connections no web browsing at all. I had local network OK through to the network drive. I loaded a different build and had internet access again. Yahoo search engine should work. If you use Opera 12 first with Google search then SM2.7.2 should work afterwards it is like the user agent at first is not compatible.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Goodmaneuver

[siria]

Goodmaneuver said:

If the servers do not like the browser then they can block access. When I change hard drives which have slightly different builds and different browser profiles, I have to log on to MSFN forum each time. When my limit of 5 logons failed. I was locked out for a few minutes which is normal but I was also locked out of all internet connections no web browsing at all. I had local network OK through to the network drive. I loaded a different build and had internet access again. Yahoo search engine should work. If you use Opera 12 first with Google search then SM2.7.2 should work afterwards it is like the user agent at first is not compatible.

YIKES!! Slightly shocked now (again)...

Bruninho said:
> When I try to load sites like http://lite.cnn.io, it loads quickly and as expected.
> Probably SM 2.7.2 can't handle heavy sites... but google.com isn't a heavy site!

Your example site is only "http", that reminds me that my current KernelEx made it impossible to create in new browser profiles the necessary files for https-access. Is it incidentally or are perhaps all httpS pages broken?
Luckily I had various old profiles, and just copying over 3 old files helped (cert8, key3, secmod). Am just not sure about possible side-effects. But my Kex is v16/17, yours 24, so guess this prob was already fixed?
Or is due to a prob with old browser version? Perhaps works better with retrozilla or roytam's special builds?
Other usual suspects are missing MSVC... files, or lost KernelEx compat settings after renaming folders or files...
Edited March 9, 2020 by siria

[Bruninho]

1 hour ago, Goodmaneuver said:

>what should I do? Just drop the Core.ini?

Yes replace the other Core.ini then reboot.

>7-zip, I dont get the icons for the .7z files. I think I need to associate them

Associate them within the 7zip program.

LAVFilters in the next post from Loblo's in WonderBar's topic, the MSFN S/C has in the site I showed for LAV33 & 50 has most releases & can choose up to 70.2-16.

Reg KEX entries depend on what file versions you are using but I think older versions would be KEX setting compatible with the newer versions, The entries in this topic are a start.

>but google.com isn't a heavy site!

If the servers do not like the browser then they can block access. When I change hard drives which have slightly different builds and different browser profiles, I have to log on to MSFN forum each time. When my limit of 5 logons failed. I was locked out for a few minutes which is normal but I was also locked out of all internet connections no web browsing at all. I had local network OK through to the network drive. I loaded a different build and had internet access again. Yahoo search engine should work. If you use Opera 12 first with Google search then SM2.7.2 should work afterwards it is like the user agent at first is not compatible.

Thanks! I will check your instructions this week when I have a free time to load the VM again. Last thing I did yesterday was to apply a patch for Win98 to see more than 1GB RAM. SM 2.7.2 btw still had same issues as before (browser UI font wrong, and the small bold bar after some text in some places). I have a friend who was interested after reading how I did my VMs and he wants to "enter the emulation world just for retro gaming" lol. I told him to start with Windows 2000 + BWC since it was the easiest thing for me to set up, and all my games & apps work with it so far. Windows 98 is just a new challenge for me but if it turns out to be really good I can put it ahead of Windows 2000 for my gaming & light web browsing purposes.

3 minutes ago, siria said:

Your example site is only "http", that reminds me that my current KernelEx made it impossible to create in new browser profiles the necessary files for http-access. Is it incidentally or are perhaps all httpS pages broken?
Luckily I had various old profiles, and just copying over 3 old files helped (cert8, key3, secmod). Am just not sure about possible side-effects.
Other usual probs are missing MSVC... files, or lost KernelEx compat settings after renaming folders or files...

I have a clean install, meaning that there are no profiles (as far as I know... considering that I have tried two SeaMonkey versions, 2.6.1 and 2.7.2) so far. I don't have any old profile to import. How do I check if they are missing MSVC... files?

[siria]

@Bruninho:
Dependency Walker is a great tool for checking which files may be missing or causing probs.
Not likely, but who knows:
are all httpS-pages crashing your browser or not?

[Bruninho]

11 hours ago, siria said:

@Bruninho:
Dependency Walker is a great tool for checking which files may be missing or causing probs.
Not likely, but who knows:
are all httpS-pages crashing your browser or not?

I need to figure out how to use Dependency Walker and understand its functions.

As for the browser, yes it's https pages that are crashing the browser. I remember that when I managed to make it work, I had added some NSS files by roytam1 for Fx10 (since SeaMonkey 2.7.2 is based on it). Now it just doesn't work anymore. I believe I was probably using KernelEx without updates...