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ruthan

Xp on Z370 / Z170 MB, few devices with ! mark in device manager, help + ACPI tunning, not working browsers

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5 hours ago, daniel_k said:

@cc333

http://www.mediafire.com/file/5cuairv2xv8p0sb

Just flash the BIOS as usual (create a bootable DOS disk).

 

There are 2 versions:

- Firstly, try the one in the root folder.

- If there are any issues, try the BIOS in the "alternative" folder.

 

Some notes:

- The ACPI table modifications work with Windows XP x86/x64 and Windows Server 2003 x86/x64.

- For Windows XP x86, I didn't try any PAE hacks.

- Standby doesn't work at all. Further modifications are required (not worth the effort).

Excellent! Thank you very much!

Does hibernation work? I don't care about standby, as I rarely use it, but working hibernation would be nice. No big deal if it's out too, though.

c

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Posted (edited)

@daniel_k Thanks very much, could you describe that modification any further? That is different in basic and alternative version? Stand by doent work - does it means if that if computer will try to go stand by - it will freeze, or just will not go never to stand by, other power saving will be still working? I mean if CPU and MB will go on everything on max, or not.

   Perhaps if you would have the knowledge how to do it, someone can try even fix standby..

  That problem is not dependent on that PAE hacks, its broken some in vanilla 32 bit XP. 

  Otherwise, Rayer suggested to try MB without ACPI, if such problem would be still there aby using other HAL and kernel files.. I will try it. I tried it too for Z370, but i only replaced hal, i did not know that i need other kernel file..
there is some info:
https://forums.techguy.org/threads/solved-acpi-multiprocessor-pc-v-standard-pc.912216/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ntoskrnl.exe
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/windows/it-pro/windows-server-2003/cc781362(v=ws.10)

 As far as i undestand it, i can just copy mutiple start files to Windows\System32 directory and by boot.ini select which one i would to use for boot.
I looked on XP cd there are these, in i386\Driver.cab:
ntkrnlmp.exe
ntkrnlpa.exe
ntkrpamp.exe
ntoskrnl.exe

I also not fully understand which files is for ACPI and which are not, if its tied up.. And in my Windows\System32 i see a bit different named files at least on Z370 machine:
ntkpaold.exe   - some old version of something
ntkrnlmp.exe   - its multiprocessor but not ACPI?
ntkrnlpa.exe   - A as ACPI?
ntkrnlup.exe   - Uniprocessor no ACPI?
ntkrnold.exe   - some version of something
ntkrpamp.exe   - multiprocessor with ACPI?
ntkrpaup.exe   - uniprocessor ACPI?
ntoskrnl.exe   - ?

 I also dunno if there are modified by some later WIndows updates, and if yes, where to find newer version for all 4 modes..

For hal*dll its like this:

HAL File Copied Computer Description in Device Manager
Halmacpi.dll ACPI Multiprocessor PC
Halaacpi.dll ACPI Uniprocessor PC
Halacpi.dll Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC
Halmps.dll MPS Multiprocessor PC
Halapic.dll MPS Uniprocessor PC
Hal.dll Standard PC
Halsp.dll Compaq SystemPro Multiprocessor or 100% Compatible

Edited by ruthan

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Posted (edited)

I managed to get boot with Z370 with these boot.ini settings (could you pleas check it if is right for ACPI machine with modern multicore CPU?):
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows ACPI" /noexecute=AlwaysOff /fastdetect /KERNEL=ntkrpamp.exe  /HAL=Halmacpi.dll

But im not really sure if it is right.. Because:
1) Processor is still MPS
2) Some HW devices were redetected, but it keep me adding PS/2 mouse and PS/2 keyboard which are not present - as not working devices
3) Between System devices is lots of devices with ACPI in name..
4) I have experience same Google Chrome and other browsers problem as on Z170 im quite sure that on this machine it was ok, i keep experiment if it will work with my normal boot.ini line, or its because of patched Bios from Daniel..

Btw for 64 bit im using this line and patch from Dibya - i dunno who is original author, which is not working with this machine:
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft WinXP PAE" /BOOTLOG /kernel=ntkl64g.exe /hal=hal64g.dll /fastdetect /PAE /noexecute=alwaysoff

I suppose that it is for ACPI multiprocessor only? I nowhere see multiple version of it..

Update:
When i boot with my old boot.ini line:
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft WinXP NO PAE" /BOOTLOG  /fastdetect 
  Machine was installed in Multi MPS mode, so i guess that im using that hal + kernel files. Here is files package with my hal and kernels, i not really sure which one is used as default, where is not defined in boot.ini line:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ie5rxu9ut5ajh8/OriginalKernels.7z?dl=0

 , Google and browsers etc.. are fine, there are not ACPI devices in Device manager, but there are that exclamation marks, for Intel PCI Express Root port #1 #17 and #7 + 2 brigdes im quite sure  that i was fixed with fixed Daniel bios, can i somewhow check if still using it, if old original bios wasnt recovered from second dual bios rom?

Conclusion: It really seems that ACPI boot mode at least on Z170/Z370 causing that not working browsers problems and poor Warcraft III demo performance a probably lots of other so far not discovered problems.. i tried classical benchmarks like - Unigine heaven or Geekbench 2 are there seems to work fine.. If you have some tip what to test, just tell me.. but i would rather fix this issue for all..

Edited by ruthan

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Posted (edited)

Ok, i tested Z170 in MPS mode and all problematic application which are not working in ACPI mode are now working, what is also good that change could be done just without stupid reinstallation, by copy 2 files and add new line to boot.ini.
  For Multiprocessor MPS:
  multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP 32bit Professional MPS,NOACPI" /kernel=ntkrnlmp.exe /hal=halmps.dll /fastdetect

 Final solution would be fix acpi mode too and find out why its broken with it on newer chipset - its probably more than that ACPI table, or that table new some tuning.. I still didnt tested new Daniels bioses..

But i thing that is time to disscuss, what are disadvantages of using of MPS mode instead of ACPI, i already new this:

- not automatic shutdown
- worse on not at all Power managment
- its keep adding stupid expected legacy pc devices to system as  PS2 keyboard, mouse and Floppy drive, even when there are in system, that was typical Win98 problem
- there are some System devices with exclamation mark, which are ok in ACPI mode
- Rayer is saying that in MPS mode would be probably problem to allocate all IRQ and Resources..

Update:
I found this on Anandtech:
You are losing a lot more than just the ability to software shutdown. The APM dual processor HAL also does not have the ability to address more than 16 IRQs that an SMP system provides. Most basic x86 SMP systems provide anywhere between 24 and 32 hardware IRQs. 

You have much faster performance because you have real problems when the ACPI HAL talks to a non-ACPI compliant BIOS.

 Im glad, that MB is not defective and i did not some stupid error on my side and that is really something from on MB bios / XP side..

Edited by ruthan

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17 hours ago, cc333 said:

Excellent! Thank you very much!

Does hibernation work? I don't care about standby, as I rarely use it, but working hibernation would be nice. No big deal if it's out too, though.

c

Unfortunately it doesn't work, hangs while restoring the Windows session.

Otherwise everything else works, including processor power management, so consumes about the same as Windows 7 while idling.

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3 minutes ago, daniel_k said:

Unfortunately it doesn't work, hangs while restoring the Windows session.

Otherwise everything else works, including processor power management, so consumes about the same as Windows 7 while idling.

Ok and how to setup system to never go to standby? It enough just setup not power down discs or there are other / better way?

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, ruthan said:

2) Some HW devices were redetected, but it keep me adding PS/2 mouse and PS/2 keyboard which are not present - as not working devices

Windows XP is not as "smart" as Vista and later OSes to tell when a device is not truly present.

Just disable Port 60/64 emulation in BIOS -> USB devices.

 

About your issue, I'm sorry but can't help you.

While I understand you don't want a clean install. I don't have the time to learn how to properly change from APM/APIC mode to ACPI mode without a clean install of Windows.

I'm compiling my own updated ISOs of Windows XP x86/x64 and Server 2003 x86/x64.

 

I test them in VirtualBox and the final test is done on my computer, with the following specs:

- i7-8700K

- Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3

- eVGA GTX 980

- ASUS Xonar DX

- Creative X-Fi Titanium

- VIA USB 3.0 card

- ASIX (Moschip) MCS9990 USB 2.0 card

- Samsung SSD 970 EVO 250GB -> Windows 7 x64

- Samsung SSD 840 250GB -> Windows XP x86

- Samsung SSD 840 250GB -> Windows XP x64

- Kingston SSDNow V300 240GB -> Windows 10 x64

- 2x Seagate Barracuda 3TB - Data drives

- ASUS DRW-24D3ST DVD-RW

 

The Samsung SSD 840 with XP x86 was running Server 2003 x86 in PAE mode just fine.

I've formated it and clean installed XP with all updates including all the POSReady ones up to this month's just to make sure no updates were causing the issues you are experiencing.

 

All the BIOS code (including the ACPI table) for a certain chipset series is about 99% the same for all motherboard models of a manufacturer (Gigabyte in this case).

So something that works on my system will certainly work on yours.

Edited by daniel_k

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29 minutes ago, ruthan said:

Ok and how to setup system to never go to standby? It enough just setup not power down discs or there are other / better way?

In Control Panel -> Power options ->  System standby/hibernate -> Never

Device specific power management (processor, disk, monitor etc) has nothing to do with system "wide" standby or hibernation.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, daniel_k said:

About your issue, I'm sorry but can't help you.

While I understand you don't want a clean install. I don't have the time to learn how to properly change from APM/APIC mode to ACPI mode without a clean install of Windows.

I'm compiling my own updated ISOs of Windows XP x86/x64 and Server 2003 x86/x64.

 Sorry, i maybe didnt mention it here, but i did in thread where i described my problems, i tried clean installation with already patched bios.. in ACPI mode and problems are exactly the same. So classic solution.. if something in not working in Windows.. reinstall it, is not working for this. its persistent. But, i dont have reason doubt that way how to switch between ACPI no ACPI through boot.ini is described above is working.

  Because you are only one, whose is able to edit Bios, and have knowledge how to do it and what you changed, is almost impossible to help you discover where can by problem my 2 Gigabyte board.. it could be very complicated, it could be some typo, i can only say that with old version on your Bioses, there i have these strange issues with my machines and it in MPS mode are they are gone.

 BTW:
 Its possible on this MB, somehow in Bios completly disable Intel USB3 controller? Some MB has such option, but here i dont see that, ale there are only sub options.

Edited by ruthan

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Posted (edited)

Heureka, WinXP are back on menu boys!

With new non-alternative Z170 Bios file, WinXP browsers etc.. are fully working, even with PAE 4+ GB patch.
Daniel, you are great! 

Could you pleas do same black magic for my Z370 MB bios?

Edited by ruthan

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I wonder if is possible to add PS/2 Y cable support to GA-X79-UP4 ? I tried 2 proven Y cable but only keyboard is working.

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No. That PS/2 connector is for Keyboard OR Mouse, not Keyboard AND Mouse. The combo connectors are usually found on laptops.

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7 hours ago, ruthan said:

I wonder if is possible to add PS/2 Y cable support to GA-X79-UP4 ? I tried 2 proven Y cable but only keyboard is working.

1 hour ago, rloew said:

No. That PS/2 connector is for Keyboard OR Mouse, not Keyboard AND Mouse. The combo connectors are usually found on laptops.

I have seen some desktop motherboard with a combo Keyboard/Mouse PS/2 port, so they do exist.

I don't think one can take a board that only has a single use port and make it do both, though (I'm not sure, but doesn't the port require extra hardware to be able to do both at once? The standard PS/2 port specs don't mention that feature, do they?)

c

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The same hardware is used for both. The BIOS or Driver determines which device can be used. My MA785 Motherboard has a flag saved in a standby powered Register that selects which one is supported.

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I have some Gigabyte and Asrock boards (Z97 / Z170), where connector is working for both device in parallel, but there is in Bios feature enable PS/2 Y cable or something like this. Rayer said that something is not possible because of missing wires and he had to do MB modification and add wires.

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