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cov3rt

windows 95 on gateway 600yg2

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hi, i am trying to install windows 95 osr 2.5 on a gateway 600yg2 laptop but i can't seem to get even past the first setup portion. the specific issue i'm having is that the touchpad does not want to load upon setup phase. i have ruled out hardware problems as the touchpad worked fine when testing it out through the windows 7 setup wizard. for some very weird reason, it worked one time when i ran with the "setup /l" command, the l being an L. i was able to move around and see the touchpad cursor. i did not go any further into the setup as i wanted to retest it again to confirm that it had to do with using that different setup switch, however, it wouldn't work again after trying many times with the same setup switch as well as different ways such as "setup /p i", running the regular setup, setup /il" and "setup /n", i think the "n" is for mouses that are plugged into the ps/2 port, unless im wrong, someone can correct me here, i did not have any ps/2 mouses connected to the laptop at any time btw. 

the laptop is currently configured and was tested using 512 MB of ram. i ran setup from the c: drive as i copied the cd contents to the main storage device. the bios has several settings that could affect installation / functionality. this includes a plug and play o/s setting, usb legacy setting, etc. 

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You should be able to complete Windows 95 Setup without a touchpad/mouse. The keyboard will do everything that is required during this phase. TAB to move around, Space to check boxes, Enter to continue.

How did the touchpad show up under the Windows 7 Device Manager? Did it show up as a USB device or a HID-compliant device? If so, there's no way of getting it working under 95 without the messy Hybrid setup that rloew and I came up with that mixes files from 98 and some 98-betas along with some special drivers rloew wrote.

If it's possible to use a PS/2 mouse with this laptop, it may make your life much easier to do so.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, LoneCrusader said:

You should be able to complete Windows 95 Setup without a touchpad/mouse. The keyboard will do everything that is required during this phase. TAB to move around, Space to check boxes, Enter to continue.

How did the touchpad show up under the Windows 7 Device Manager? Did it show up as a USB device or a HID-compliant device? If so, there's no way of getting it working under 95 without the messy Hybrid setup that rloew and I came up with that mixes files from 98 and some 98-betas along with some special drivers rloew wrote.

If it's possible to use a PS/2 mouse with this laptop, it may make your life much easier to do so.

yeh, my last option was to just get a cheap used or new ps/2 mouse from somewhere, although i would like to at least know why the touchpad wouldn't work at all or properly or potentially what the culprit is before doing so. i can try doing setup again with the things you mentioned on the keyboard route, i didn't install windows 7, i only loaded the setup disk and i was able to see a cursor and move it around using the touchpad while in the partition window so i know for sure it isn't a hardware issue. 

it don't think it's a usb device because if that was the case, it wouldn't even have loaded that one time and allow me to move around with it during the w95 setup wizard, though please correct me if i am wrong on this. 

EDIT - it seems the usb legacy support option was the culprit, i enabled it instead of having the setting at disabled and i am now able to proceed into the setup right now. i will provide more info if i run into any other issues. 

Edited by cov3rt

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4 hours ago, cov3rt said:

it don't think it's a usb device because if that was the case, it wouldn't even have loaded that one time and allow me to move around with it during the w95 setup wizard, though please correct me if i am wrong on this. 

EDIT - it seems the usb legacy support option was the culprit, i enabled it instead of having the setting at disabled and i am now able to proceed into the setup right now. i will provide more info if i run into any other issues. 

Well, you found the culprit all right. Enabling "USB Legacy Support" means that USB input devices are set to emulate PS/2 (or older types) input so that they will be functional in DOS or other environments where there are no USB drivers (the first round of 95 SETUP launched from DOS falls into this category). The problem with this is that when Windows loads and loads its USB driver stack, the Windows drivers take over and the emulation is lost, leaving you with no input control unless either the KB or Mouse is not USB. In the case of Windows 95, where there are no USB drivers until one installs USBSUPP/XUSBSUPP, there's a chance that the emulation would continue to work provided one does not install one of these packages. However this would also have the effect of preventing use of USB Storage devices with that particular 95 installation.

With 98/ME, the touchpad should work as a regular USB-HID device, but there might still be some hiccups during the SETUP process if any dialog boxes are triggered that require clicks to continue (unless the keyboard still works).

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, LoneCrusader said:

Well, you found the culprit all right. Enabling "USB Legacy Support" means that USB input devices are set to emulate PS/2 (or older types) input so that they will be functional in DOS or other environments where there are no USB drivers (the first round of 95 SETUP launched from DOS falls into this category). The problem with this is that when Windows loads and loads its USB driver stack, the Windows drivers take over and the emulation is lost, leaving you with no input control unless either the KB or Mouse is not USB. In the case of Windows 95, where there are no USB drivers until one installs USBSUPP/XUSBSUPP, there's a chance that the emulation would continue to work provided one does not install one of these packages. However this would also have the effect of preventing use of USB Storage devices with that particular 95 installation.

With 98/ME, the touchpad should work as a regular USB-HID device, but there might still be some hiccups during the SETUP process if any dialog boxes are triggered that require clicks to continue (unless the keyboard still works).

thanks for the info, the touchpad has been working so far within windows, i haven't updated the system much, just applied some setting changes in system.ini, etc, but it seems that i may be impacted with some unfavorable results later on if i choose to install xusbsupp, but i'll see how much i want to experiment with the system. what may be nice to find out is if there is a working driver for the mobility radeon 9500 that the laptop uses, the package has some vxd files in it so i am hoping it will work, though they may be for w98 first edition, gpu driver version is  4.14.01.9129 to be installed for the following below:

 "TO BE DISCONTINUED" = M10_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4E52

also some other random questions and info, probably not the best place to put it but i was wondering if you know a good lightweight system information tool for windows 95 and 98SE, i tried to download "ReSysInfo System Information Viewer v2.1.0 32-bit" from mdgx but couldn't find any trace, even with wayback machine or manually searching google for file contents / etc. i won't be using aida or everest as my goal specifically is to find something a lot lighter than those that is either around the same date or newer supported chipsets. i found benchmarkx 4.1 for w95 but it's only good till like 9-2-2002. there are some other ones but i can mention those later if necessary.

i already updated some other components, dtemp was very nice and worked right away on w95, Roadkil's Disk Speed 2.0 for 9x was also nice and worked right away, i think it measures 4K random read with a queue depth of 1 ( which is a main reason why i wanted it ) as the speed almost identically matched AS SSD benchmark on a windows 7 system where i tested both programs, AS SSD not supported on windows 95, very early versions of AS SSD work on 98SE but are sort of buggy / slow. 

Edited by cov3rt

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the hardware id of the gpu is actually "PCI/VEN_1002&DEV_4C66" when i checked regedit, the other one was put down because i read from one site mentioning it uses the mobility radeon 9500 that happens to use a different hardware id. so now i know for sure there is working driver for the new hardware id which i would have to use driver version " 4.13.01.9066", however, other laptops may use "TO BE DISCONTINUED" = M10_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4E52 so it leaves this part still not fully tested to confirm more practical usability for windows 95. one of the cardbus bridges have the code 29 issue which for me is a dead end for the cardbus portion unless someone can give me a practical easy fix or solution.

the laptop uses the 1510 cardbus controller which is "PCI\VEN_104C&DEV_AC55", i don't think the package i downloaded will work, it's version "1.00.00.1", with a date of 12-27-00, however, it doesn't have any vxd files or the typical files you would see such as pccard, etc. although some vxd files are mentioned in copying section of the inf file, that could just be for w98 first edition, even then it wouldn't work with the code 29. interestingly, the toshiba mini pci wireless card i have installed that calls for the ac50 cardbus driver, it is listed in that other dev ac55 driver. the rest of the drivers should work, ess1988 sound, 100 ve network, ich3 modem, etc.

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Posted (edited)

so i added the hardware id of ac55 to the ac50 driver inf and it the cardbus works! i was not able to find any package officially that had ac55 in it with the vxd files so now i made my own:).  it shows as texas instruments pci-1420 cardbus controller in device manager. although the code 29 is in the toshiba wireless mini pci card extension, at least the laptop's internal cardbus controller works, you can just use a cardbus alternative for wifi, several are supported in the same driver that is used for the toshiba mini pci card. 

Edited by cov3rt

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so i was able to install 98SE on the system, i didn't bother experimenting more with w95, although i may do so in the future. i've had pretty much no real issues for the 98SE setup. ACPI fully working i believe with battery status there using regular setup. no shut down / restart hangs. i used the usb legacy support setting to enabled for the entire time and usb mass storage devices work fine, although limited to ps/2 speeds i think? the controllers are just the regular usb one that microsoft originally provides, the unofficial usb update doesn't do anything in this state but no problem, the usb works and that's good enough for me for now. all drivers working. 

i was able to confirm working the following programs below on 98SE:

Disk Thruput Tester 2.10 R16 ( i believe measures 4K random read queue depth 1 )

DTemp 1.0.0.34 (checks hdd temperature) - very lightweight 

ReSysInfo System Information Viewer 2.2 ( several years newer than aida 3.94.2 while only being less than 700 KB, aida was around 3.1 MB )

Roadkil's Disk Speed 2.0 for 9x ( i believe also measures 4k random read queue depth 1 ), i like this slightly more as it has more tests and the 4K random read number shows

lower numbers which i would rather have because it gives more of a worst case scenario type of results or realistic way of bench marking the drive. 

also back to the w95 part, i was wondering if anyone knows how to properly detect / update hard disks in windows 95 and 98SE. what i mean by this is how you can get it to show the actual name of the hard disk instead of the default generic ide disk in device manager. i was able to do this on the M6TBD desktop board by using the ide bus master fix or bsfix patch 3.01-4    , it also increased performance in all aspects, regardless of DMA enabled or not ( i think ). 

however, i believe that patch only worked / works on desktop boards, even though it doesn't say in the readme, i don't remember which systems i was able to get it to run on, but i was able to install it on certain systems, either laptop or desktop that weren't listed in the readme and may or may not have been 440bx chipsets, possibly newer. i did some google searching and mdgx site search, i found a package named "triones370d" which doesn't mention if it's only desktops or if it can be installed on laptops, another one is "bmide_95", ide bus master driver for windows 95,  version 3.02.0.0, this one specifically mentions to not install on laptops and that it's only for desktops, and then a last one i found related to ide is the update "Q273468" which i do not have in my archived updates folder of windows 95, however i think the updated files in it are updated by other ones from different packages in my archive or use different files from possibly an unofficial package such as xusbsupp? "ESDI_506.95G" is one of the files in the "Q273468". one way to check if any of these are needed is to see a fully updated w95 osr 2.5 system, however, the issue with this is not only practicality, but also whether or not the files are necessary in the first place or may mess up the system if i choose to install the update. 

i also want this done on 98SE systems, i think a different route would be needed? my checklist mentions installing an older chipset inf update corrects this issue ( at least for 98SE, although i don't know if this actually works, which chipset to run / how old, etc. the bsfix on windows 95 is older / oldest, but of course, it only runs on w95. 

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I have a patch that reports the Drive name. It works on any 9x OS.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/21/2018 at 8:16 PM, rloew said:

I have a patch that reports the Drive name. It works on any 9x OS.

is there any significance in this patch compared to the other updates that may similarly do the same thing? i guess what i'm asking is if there is any performance differences between this patch and other related ones and just as a patch alone, what functional purpose it has? also is this patch free or cost money and how much space is the patch file or contents altogether? 

i have found something else that may be similar so far which i renamed to "ultra ata storage 6.11.100.1301 98SE-NT 4.0", so it works on both 98SE and NT 4.0, however, not on windows 95. i have not actually tested it to see if it would change the drive name and provide other functional improvements. 

Edited by cov3rt

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I don't have any information on other options.

This Patch does not alter performance of the standard Driver.

Unless purchased with other Patches, it only changes the reported Drive Name to the Manufacturer's String rather than the generic one currently used.

It is not free. It does not increase the size of the Driver so it takes up no space if you remove the Patch Program after applying the Patch.

My Patch does work on Windows 95. It does not work on NT Systems.

What you describe is a replacement Driver, not a Patch, so it is not at all similar.

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