How to wash your hands...

[dencorso]

But... then... why??? 

[Mcinwwl]

TBH i talked with a friend who studied nursery, and she said that in a place like hospital  (lots of germs, and hygene impacts yours... hmm... performance) it matters. So not so silly as it might look like.

[jaclaz]

13 hours ago, dencorso said:

But... then... why??? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis

jaclaz

[Tripredacus]

Well, not why washing your hands, but why having to make a sign or infographic about it, and presumably need to hang it up in some building?

[jaclaz]

1 hour ago, Tripredacus said:

Well, not why washing your hands, but why having to make a sign or infographic about it, and presumably need to hang it up in some building?

Because people would be otherwise unaware (ignorant) of the basic need of washing one's hands OFTEN, expecially when the possibility of coming in contact with germs or other similar agents of contamination is relatively high to prevent the spreading of contamination?

Seriously, that kind of sign is everywhere in hospitals, but also - even if it is not strictly compulsory - in many restaurant kitchens (or however in places where food is prepared) in Italy.

There is a protocol, called HACPP (hazard analysis and critical control point) and relative tests that is compulsory anywhere food is manipulated (people working there need to follow a course and get a certificate), that essentially revolves around these six main points:

1) keep in the refrigerator any food that should be refrigerated at all times, only take it out for the strict time needed for preparation
2) check and monitor constantly the temperature of refrigerators
3) check and monitor expiration date of any product, never use any ingredient past its "Best before" date
4) anything made "in-house" must be labeled with "preparation date" (and there is a book about acceptable validity/duration of these)
5) always clean accurately any surface, container, appliance and tool ever coming in contact with food before and after using it
6) use (lattice) gloves whenever possible when touching food and wash your hands (with a sanitizing solution) as often as you can and always before and after having touched any food

(there are a lot of other points about the need to store some items separately from some others - as an example unwashed eggs - and a whole set of rules about keeping separate possible allergens, but the essence is in the above) 

The 7th unwritten point is:

7) in any case and while wondering on the implications of this or that provision in the HACCP manual, wash your hands.

As a matter of fact that kind of sign (with the text and instructions) is mainly used in hospitals (aimed to visitors/public), in the other places (since they are intended for the workers) the UNI ISO 7010 standard ones are used instead:

https://www.seton.it/pittogrammi-tavola-uni-iso-7010-lavaggio-mani-obbligatorio-m011.html#PLPIC100M011

jaclaz

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by jaclaz

[dencorso]

@jaclaz & @Mcinwwl: you're looking at it from the serious POV, which all of us in this thread actually do understand. It seems only @Tripredacus got my point, which is "a textual warning saying something like 'wash your danm mitts, yo!' ought to have the same effect and obviate the nedd for a 10-step illustrated instruction chart to the same sense." If using toothpicks preclude detailed instructions, then washing hands shouldn't need 'em either... or can you really discern a difference? 

[jaclaz]

15 minutes ago, dencorso said:

@jaclaz & @Mcinwwl: you're looking at it from the serious POV, which all of us in this thread actually do understand. It seems only @Tripredacus got my point, which is "a textual warning saying something like 'wash your danm mitts, yo!' ought to have the same effect and obviate the nedd for a 10-step illustrated instruction chart to the same sense." If using toothpicks preclude detailed instructions, then washing hands shouldn't need 'em either... or can you really discern a difference? 

I understand, but (for once) I am serious because it is actually some serious matter, unfortunately there is a BIG difference between PROPERLY washing ones' hands and what most people PRETEND to do and calls "washing one's hands" (mainly consisting in dipping their fingers in some water).

The toothpick instructions are superfluous (hence the reknown Douglas Adams point), instructing people to wash their hands (and do that properly) in areas where there is some risk of contamination is seemingly needed, you have no idea of what I can often see in hospitals (just in front of those signs), people just doing steps #1, #2, #8 and #9.

Steps #3 to #7 are rare (and rarely all of them are performed).

I actually saw ONCE a non-professional doing step #10.

jaclaz

[dencorso]

Around here (in São Paulo City at least), infrared-sensor enabled taps rule (at least in good hospitals and eating places, from Mc Donald's to expensive restaurants), which fulfil Ford's principle of "putting knowledge into the machine, to avoid depending on the human" and obviate step 10. I'd expect such taps would be at least as popular in Italy, as well (although I don't actually remember having seen any such taps there back in 2005, when I last went there... then again, I doubt I'd have taken any notice of them, had I seen any, in fact, because they were already common here, by then). Of course, there are places in Brazil where there's not even piped clean water supply, let alone infrared taps, but that's obviously beside the point.

[jaclaz]

1 hour ago, dencorso said:

Around here (in São Paulo City at least), infrared-sensor enabled taps rule (at least in good hospitals and eating places, from Mc Donald's to expensive restaurants), which fulfil Ford's principle of "putting knowledge into the machine, to avoid depending on the human" and obviate step 10. I'd expect such taps would be at least as popular in Italy, as well (although I don't actually remember having seen any such taps there back in 2005, when I last went there... then again, I doubt I'd have taken any notice of them, had I seen any, in fact, because they were already common here, by then). Of course, there are places in Brazil where there's not even piped clean water supply, let alone infrared taps, but that's obviously beside the point.

They are here and there also, but they tend to be costly.

Most are used in service areas along highways and similar (usually dispensing only cold water).

In  a couple of places (public bathrooms) I did actually put them (the kind which can dispense both hot and cold water, mixed, with a small lever that regulates temperature).

In my experience they are quite a PITA, for maintenance reasons.

There are commonly two kinds of them, one battery operated (a small 9V rectangular battery) where the battery ALWAYS discharges while the stupid tap is needed, and one with a power adapter to low voltage (having mains near or below a wash basin is a no-no for security reasons) where the power adapter tends to give up/burn (again just when the tap is needed).

What I use increasingly in public bathrooms and restaurant kitchens are (mechanic) pedal taps/mixers like this:

https://www.rubinetteriashop.com/it/1470-rubinetti-a-pedale

that work just fine but that are also a tad bit expensive (there are even single pedal ones including a mixer that people usually completely fails to operate correctly, the idea of them being that a slight pressure is cold and incrasing the pressure the temperature of the water increases, which results in either very little cold water or a lot of very hot water).

The model most commonly in use (and that is cheaper and easier to install) is a conventional mixer but with a long lever (suited to be operated with the elbows, not so casually called "leva clinica"), like this one:

https://www.idral.it/shop/idralh2o-it/leva-clinica-per-miscelatori/

that is by the way compulsory in "handicap ready" bathrooms.

And now unexpectedly:

WASH & GLOW - The Movie!

https://youtu.be/okum2G2jCVE

jaclaz

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by jaclaz

[Mcinwwl]

3 hours ago, dencorso said:

@jaclaz & @Mcinwwl: you're looking at it from the serious POV, which all of us in this thread actually do understand. It seems only @Tripredacus got my point, which is "a textual warning saying something like 'wash your danm mitts, yo!' ought to have the same effect and obviate the nedd for a 10-step illustrated instruction chart to the same sense." If using toothpicks preclude detailed instructions, then washing hands shouldn't need 'em either... or can you really discern a difference? 

Because, simply speaking, people might misunderstand you and treat it as a serious doubt. I don't accuse you or Tripredactus to be absolutely ignorant, but remember, Forum is a publicly accessible space and internet is full of dangerous bystanders...

But I guess Jaclaz already referred to that in a verbosely.

[Tripredacus]

Ok so we can all agree that washing hands in hospitals and restaurants is important, and that apparently these signs are for employees... This type of sign, with these instructions, is well beyond the simple "employees must wash hands" sign you may see in a bathroom, or the giant STOP sign I see at say.. Wendys that says "STOP wash hands if passing this line" in which there is a line taped/painted to the floor and a sink is there too.

It is the amount of detail put into it. It looks similar to the instruction cards you would see for how to help someone who is choking, or what to do if your airplane has crashed into the ocean. Specific scenarios that are not common knowledge and those instructional cards can be used in a pinch.

Beyond the fact that we would expect any business would have informed their employees that they must wash their hands, as a course of job training, or that such information would be in their employee handbook. Part of a sign like this is the same issue you often run across, a company treating their employees like children. Then there is the other side of the coin. As I go into a business bathroom, and see the sign saying that employees must wash hands, indicates to me that if that sign were not there, the employees would not be doing that.

[jaclaz]

@Trip

NO, it is actually the opposite.

Those signs are generally intended for people visiting patients in hospitals and similar, NOT for the employees.

These people (the public) visiting their friends and relatives may actually represent a greater risk for spreading contamination than nurses and doctors.

Here in Italy in most wards there are those signs near a (small) basin with water and a soap dispenser placed in corridors/access points to the ward.

The signs for employees only are the much simpler UNI ISO 7010 I already provided a link for. (though as said I have seen in some places the much more explicit type you initially posted in the personnel restroom).

 

And now, unexpectedly

 

jaclaz

Edited July 7, 2018 by jaclaz