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Glenn9999

Windows XP License

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you're wrong than why can I buy OEM windows from new egg that way.  You can buy system builder packs as  end user totally legal.

Edited by Destro

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System builder pack can't be legally resold after the first installation w/o the hardware (the key pieces of hardware are case and motherboard) it was installed on. Using it (this means "opening its packaging"), you become "the PC manufacturer" in the license term. So, you must attach the key sticker on the case of PC at which you install Windows. Keeping it separately is illegal.

Edited by Yellow Horror
I was wrong about XP System builder pack availability

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System Builder pack = OEM here we go around and around again.  Everything I stated has been true.  I know this because that used to be my job.  It's is not illigal to keep an unused OEM license and CD aka a system builder pack.  If it has not been used it can be sold with hardware.  It doesn't have to be a motherboard it can be any hardware that is going into the system.  Perhaps the new rules are different but the old rules which are the rules of XP are the same.  "opening packaging refers to peeling off the sticker from its paper it came with."  If the sticker has not been peeled off and the license has never been used it is "unused"

Edited by Destro

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34 minutes ago, Yellow Horror said:

So, you must attach the key sticker on the case of PC at which you install Windows. Keeping it separately is illegal.

Using a fridge magnet is a way of satisfying that requirement.

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23 minutes ago, Yellow Horror said:

 So, you must attach the key sticker on the case of PC at which you install Windows. Keeping it separately is illegal.

Sure, sue me.

Don't be fooled by the MS lingo and the EULA (which BTW I personally believe to be hardly enforceable if enforceable at all).

The good MS guys may have an easy life convincing a "real" OEM that not attaching the sticker is illegal (actually noone believe that, but MS may well retaliate if they don't), but if I legally buy a license and don't transfer it to anyone else nor sell it, I am perfectly OK from a legal standpoint (with all my COA stickers neatly ordered inside a folder), even hypothizing (and IMHO it has not) the EULA has some actual validity.

The sticker applied to the machine is anyway a proof of authenticity or legality, not a requisite of it.

jaclaz

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Due to a little old (2005) MS presentation about OEM licensing, while the System Builder pack is not opened it may be legally sold even without any hardware. After opening, neither part of it may be sold separately from a complete PC.

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6 minutes ago, jaclaz said:

The sticker applied to the machine is anyway a proof of authenticity or legality, not a requisite of it.

You are exactly right there :D

But MS really can retaliate, so better to have all the proofs ready if you are a businessman or a public person,

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In the context of the discussion MS wont retaliate. There is absolutely no precedence for it.  I have never seen a case ever of MS going after a single end user for something like this and it wont happen over XP.  OP asked about the legality of it we gave it to him but it's irrelevant at this point i think.  XP is getting no support from microsoft and its no longer for sale and its almost 20 years old.   Nothing will happen.  You are more likely to walk out of your front door and catch a random bullet and die from a gunshot in some kinda random act of violence in america,.

Edited by Destro

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In Russia, there was a case when a school teacher was sentenced to prison for using "counterfeit" Windows in a classroom. I am almost sure, it was XP (if not Windows 98).

Edited by Yellow Horror

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That case was also dismissed. Because they could not prove that the teacher knowingly committed any crime.  Also that case was russia officials vs an enduser MS was never involved.

Edited by Destro

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As far as i remember the story:

The teacher was convicted for the "crime". He wasn't really imprisoned only because the court replaced the sentence with a conditional sentence. But the teacher received a criminal record, that is a serious penalty in Russia, especially for a pedagogue. The teacher was eventually able to challenge the sentence, but this was a long time later. And MS was involved in the process as a party that "suffered significant financial damage". The "piracy" in Russia isn't a criminal offense if there isn't such a party.

Edited by Yellow Horror

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16 hours ago, Yellow Horror said:

In Russia, there was a case when a school teacher was sentenced to prison for using "counterfeit" Windows in a classroom. I am almost sure, it was XP (if not Windows 98).

In India government offices use pirated software!! 

So who is going to stop people from doing that?

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Yellow I wanted to say this before but that has nothing to do with the "context" of this discussion.  The OPs question isn't even remotely similar.  So I don't see your point.

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34 minutes ago, Destro said:

I don't see your point.

My point is: the XP license Glenn9999 has is already linked to his old PC. I am agree that he may, on his own risk, reuse it on a new hardware set for his personal usage. But selling used OEM license w/o the PC it is linked to is illegal or, at least, dishonest in relation to the buyer. The only way to legally sell the license, that i can see, is: to reanimate the old PC w/o changing its motherboard, place the key sticker on its case, then sell the PC with licensed XP as a bundle.

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7 hours ago, Yellow Horror said:

My point is: the XP license Glenn9999 has is already linked to his old PC. I am agree that he may, on his own risk, reuse it on a new hardware set for his personal usage. But selling used OEM license w/o the PC it is linked to is illegal or, at least, dishonest in relation to the buyer. The only way to legally sell the license, that i can see, is: to reanimate the old PC w/o changing its motherboard, place the key sticker on its case, then sell the PC with licensed XP as a bundle.

Sorry but I an trying to stop myself from laughing. What you say may be the strictest interpretation of MS's license agreement but NOBODY does what you just said which attests to the ridiculousness of the LA itself. Who is to say whether a motherboard has been changed or not especially if you replace a faulty mobo with one that is a different model but a similar age. This rule regarding stickers on the case was basically targeted at smaller OEMs which produce whitebox computers. Nowadays with the big OEMs there are no stickers present as the license keys are embedded in the UEFI BIOS.

And I don't see the point of debating US law vs Russian law. Microsoft isn't in charge of the United Federation of Planets. Even if it were, Klingon law would presumably be different to Vulcan law. The mere fact that N and K editions of Windows exist demonstrates Microsoft doesn't get it's way all the time.

Laws vary from country to country and even from state to state in the USA. look at the recent laws governing the use of marijuana, still illegal in most places.

Laws including laws governing license agreements are agreed to based how much of a bribe local politicians demand. In the USA and other democracies these bribes are called "campaign contributions". Last I heard both giving bribes and receiving them are illegal so the laws written to govern computer home users are based on what are arguably crimes in the first place.

Several years ago a business that deals in ex-corporate computers was selling Dell installation discs for $5 each no license included and they had hundreds of them. They are the type of CD's and DVD's that would install on any computer and all that was needed to activate was your own license key. I bought one of each including XP Pro with SP3, Vista Business with SP1, Win 7 Pro 32-bit, and Win 7 Pro 64-bit all for $20. Was it illegal to buy these discs? Was it illegal to sell them this way? Either way I am not worried.

A couple of months ago I acquired a Dell laptop that had originally shipped with Windows Vista Home Premium. As Vista is now EOL I installed Win 7 Pro 32-bit using the DVD mentioned above. To activate I used an OEM Win 7 Pro key I found stuck to the side of a computer which someone had put out for the trash. I activated over the phone and Microsoft accepted the numbers generated by the key and gave me the activation code. If MS accepted the key was what I did illegal? After all, that Dell installation DVD and the license key didn't come together with the laptop. I would call it resourcefulness.

And here is what may be my most important observation. The Win 7 key I found would have obviously been used at some point since it was a custom built unbranded box, yet I was able to activate Win 7 Pro on the Dell laptop. It appears that once enough time has passed from it's initial use a license key can be used again to activate Windows.

 

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