Vista on Intel Celeron N3050 (Braswell) board

[IceFairyAmy]

Hi,

I have an Acer Aspire ES1-531 and would like to run Windows Vista on it, since I prefer it over 7 for some reasons. ^_^ I noticed that there aren't USB 3.0 drivers or Intel HD Graphics drivers for my machine, running Celeron N3050 (Braswell) however the Windows 7 drivers for them work perfectly fine with the system. Hoping some sort of tweaks can be done to the INFs to work with Vista ^^

Thanks for any help!

--Amy

[burd]

38 minutes ago, IceFairyAmy said:

Hi,

I have an Acer Aspire ES1-531 and would like to run Windows Vista on it, since I prefer it over 7 for some reasons. ^_^ I noticed that there aren't USB 3.0 drivers or Intel HD Graphics drivers for my machine, running Celeron N3050 (Braswell) however the Windows 7 drivers for them work perfectly fine with the system. Hoping some sort of tweaks can be done to the INFs to work with Vista ^^

Thanks for any help!

--Amy

I Dont think this is possible,there are either missing features in vista or an artificial block has been placed, simply modding the infs wont work,its been tried and tested a few times according to me, i had a haswell and wanted vista on that aswell but there werent any drivers for it sadly
Unless Someone Creates an extended kernel or something i dont see vista surviving any longer with modern hardware

Edited October 13, 2017 by burd

[WinClient5270]

Braswell is essentially a variant of Haswell. Neither have Intel HD Graphics or Intel USB 3.0 drivers for Vista, unfortunately. I've already tried modifying Windows 7 drivers (swapping out 7's NT version number [6.1] for Vista's NT version number [6.0] in the INF files), but it doesn't work. I received a Code 39 error when attempting to install them. As burd pointed out, this most likely happens due to missing APIs/functions in Vista that were introduced in Windows 7, which the drivers rely on to work correctly. While Vista and 7 do have similar driver models, they're not quite the same.

If you really want to run Vista today, you should swap your machine for something from either the Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge era, as those are the last platforms to support Windows Vista. They are a few years old by now but are still more than enough for the average user, and the higher end Sandy/Ivy Bridge Core i5/i7 CPUs provide more than enough power if you do more resource-intensive tasks. Although Intel didn't release any USB 3.0 drivers for Vista with Ivy Bridge, this can be worked around by using a Sandy Bridge-era motherboard paired with an Ivy Bridge CPU. Chipset and Intel HD Graphics drivers for Vista on Ivy Bridge were in fact released, however, Sandy's USB 3.0 supports Vista fine (since Sandy only supports USB 3.0 through third party chipsets, which all support Vista), and most Sandy Bridge motherboards are able to support Ivy Bridge CPUs through a BIOS upgrade, so that shouldn't be an issue. View my guide here for more information.
If you are unable to replace your hardware or simply don't want to go through the trouble, you can reskin or "transform" Windows 7 to make it look and feel nearly the same as Windows Vista. I made several tutorials here which will show you how to perform the process (WinClient5270 is my YouTube channel name).

Good luck, and welcome to MSFN!

Edited October 14, 2017 by 2008WindowsVista

[burd]

58 minutes ago, 2008WindowsVista said:

Braswell is essentially a variant of Haswell. Neither have Intel HD Graphics or Intel USB 3.0 drivers for Vista, unfortunately. I've already tried modifying Windows 7 drivers (swapping out 7's NT version number [6.1] for Vista's NT version number [6.0] in the INF files), but it doesn't work. I received a Code 39 error when attempting to install them. As burd pointed out, this most likely happens due to missing APIs/functions in Vista that were introduced in Windows 7, which the drivers rely on to work correctly. While Vista and 7 do have similar driver models, they're not quite the same.

If you really want to run Vista today, you should swap your machine for something from either the Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge era, as those are the last platforms to support Windows Vista. They are a few years old by now but are still more than enough for the average user, and the higher end Sandy/Ivy Bridge Core i5/i7 CPUs provide more than enough power if you do more resource-intensive tasks. Although Intel didn't release any USB 3.0 drivers for Vista with Ivy Bridge, this can be worked around by using a Sandy Bridge-era motherboard paired with an Ivy Bridge CPU. Chipset and Intel HD Graphics drivers for Vista on Ivy Bridge were in fact released, however, Sandy's Intel USB 3.0 supports Vista fine, and most Sandy Bridge motherboards are able to support Ivy Bridge CPUs through a BIOS upgrade, so that shouldn't be an issue. View my guide here for more information.
If you are unable to replace your hardware or simply don't want to go through the trouble, you can reskin or "transform" Windows 7 to make it look and feel nearly the same as Windows Vista. I made several tutorials here which will show you how to perform the process (WinClient5270 is my YouTube channel name).

Good luck, and welcome to MSFN!

Wait,Are you saying despite Intel not supporting USB 3.0 it still works on sandy bridge? If so i think i have an old machine which i can use vista on.

Also i wanted to ask you if you can test vulkan support on the 372.70 drivers,im not really sure if they work or not because im working on getting my 1060gtx to work at some extent currently(which did happen one random time and fps was super good)

Edited October 14, 2017 by burd

[WinClient5270]

14 hours ago, burd said:

Wait,Are you saying despite Intel not supporting USB 3.0 it still works on sandy bridge? If so i think i have an old machine which i can use vista on.

Not quite.

Sandy Bridge does include USB 3.0 drivers for Vista (through third party chipsets). It is the last platform from Intel to do so.

Ivy Bridge on the other hand doesn't include USB 3.0 drivers for Vista. However, since most Sandy Bridge-era motherboards will support Ivy Bridge CPUs through a BIOS upgrade, those may be used to achieve USB 3.0 support under Vista when using it with an Ivy Bridge CPU. If you use an Ivy Bridge-era board, Intel's USB 3.0 drivers won't support Vista and you'll have to use the USB 3.0 ports in USB 2.0 compatibility mode.

Edited October 14, 2017 by 2008WindowsVista

[IceFairyAmy]

Awww, that's a shame.

I don't really have the resources to buy older hardware given I'm 16... :/

[WinClient5270]

47 minutes ago, IceFairyAmy said:

Awww, that's a shame.

I don't really have the resources to buy older hardware given I'm 16... :/

Yes, unfortunately Vista is at a dead end when it comes to modern hardware. While Ivy Bridge is fine for now, it will only become less and less feasible to use as modern applications become heavier (that'll probably be quite a ways off though).

Since I assume you probably like Vista mostly for its UI and looks (as do I and many others), I thought you might like to see this. The following screenshots show (mostly) how far I've been able to make 7 look like Vista (since you can't change your hardware, you may find this solution a viable option):

Logon screen: http://prntscr.com/gx85jj

System Properties: http://prntscr.com/gx871c

Windows Explorer & user folder icons: http://prntscr.com/gx86gr

Start menu: http://prntscr.com/gx86j4

System tray: http://prntscr.com/gx869z

Windows Vista's built-in apps (only a few of them are shown): http://prntscr.com/gx86sy

Windows Vista desktop backgrounds: http://prntscr.com/gx863o

To give credit where credit is due, @AnX and @11ryanc did a lot of work on this project as well. If you check out the 7-to-Vista transformation tutorial link I sent, it will show you how to get most of what you see here (the transformation pack needs updating however, since certain elements of the project have been fixed/refined).

Edited October 14, 2017 by 2008WindowsVista

[98SE]

7 hours ago, 2008WindowsVista said:

If you really want to run Vista today, you should swap your machine for something from either the Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge era, as those are the last platforms to support Windows Vista. They are a few years old by now but are still more than enough for the average user, and the higher end Sandy/Ivy Bridge Core i5/i7 CPUs provide more than enough power if you do more resource-intensive tasks. Although Intel didn't release any USB 3.0 drivers for Vista with Ivy Bridge, this can be worked around by using a Sandy Bridge-era motherboard paired with an Ivy Bridge CPU. Chipset and Intel HD Graphics drivers for Vista on Ivy Bridge were in fact released, however, Sandy's Intel USB 3.0 supports Vista fine, and most Sandy Bridge motherboards are able to support Ivy Bridge CPUs through a BIOS upgrade, so that shouldn't be an issue. View my guide here for more information.
If you are unable to replace your hardware or simply don't want to go through the trouble, you can reskin or "transform" Windows 7 to make it look and feel nearly the same as Windows Vista. I made several tutorials here which will show you how to perform the process (WinClient5270 is my YouTube channel name).

Good luck, and welcome to MSFN!

Where is the official Intel download link for Intel USB 3.0 driver support in Vista for Sandy Bridge that you stated?

Are you getting USB 3.0 speeds on the Intel USB 3.0 ports on your Z68?

If so what is your sustained MegaBytes per second transfer rate?  Make sure you aren't confusing these USB 3.0 ports with Asmedia, NEC, or other brand.

 

I have a working Ivy Bridge Z77 and the Intel USB 3.0 ports are working but only at USB 2.0 speeds in Vista.  So there is no need to have Z68 to use Intel USB 3.0 ports as USB 2.0 ports.

 

I also just reinstalled a clean Vista Ultimate 64-bit SP1 on Z170 SkyLake and again no problems installing it using the optical disc drive method.  I kept it looping the screensaver for several hours and never saw any errors pop up.  Shutdown also works properly.

You will need a 3rd party USB card if you want USB mouse support or other USB device support.  The PS/2 keyboard works fine on a PS/2 port.

 

Quote

 

Yes, unfortunately Vista is at a dead end when it comes to modern hardware. While Ivy Bridge is fine for now, it will only become less and less feasible to use as modern applications become heavier (that'll probably be quite a ways off though).

Since I assume you probably like Vista mostly for its UI and looks (as do I and many others), I thought you might like to see this. The following screenshots show (mostly) how far I've been able to make 7 look like Vista (since you can't change your hardware, you may find this solution a viable option):

 

In the case of Haswell+, Vista is dead for regular laptops with Intel iGPUs only.  However there are still some laptops with 3rd party nVidia 600M series that can still use XP and Vista drivers.

For Desktops SkyLake and Kaby Lake works but you'll need a nVidia 900 series PCIe card or lower for official XP and Vista drivers.

Windows 7 64-bit will work on all laptops so if the Intel iGPU and USB 3.0 is vital to what you are doing then it's time to upgrade to get full functionality.

If you want to install Vista on a Haswell/Broadwell laptop with an Intel iGPU you can still use the basic Windows display driver but games would probably be out of the question.  As for the USB 3.0 you can get an ExpressCard on eBay to take care of that problem.

So if take that all into account Vista 64-bit isn't really dead yet on modern hardware.

SkyLake+ I would avoid for laptops if you want to use Vista.  If you slipstream the drivers for a 3rd party USB 3.0 ExpressCard you might be able to use a USB mouse and USB keyboard to install it.

Edited October 14, 2017 by 98SE

[IceFairyAmy]

1 hour ago, 98SE said:

If you want to install Vista on a Haswell/Broadwell laptop with an Intel iGPU you can still use the basic Windows display driver but games would probably be out of the question.  As for the USB 3.0 you can get an ExpressCard on eBay to take care of that problem.

That's the main issue: I like Aero, too. Plus the fact I use RetroArch, which while is not demanding it is probably need the device drivers.

I'll look into the transformation stuff, @2008WindowsVista and thanks for the detailed reply ^^

[WinClient5270]

9 hours ago, 98SE said:

Where is the official Intel download link for Intel USB 3.0 driver support in Vista for Sandy Bridge that you stated?

Are you getting USB 3.0 speeds on the Intel USB 3.0 ports on your Z68?

If so what is your sustained MegaBytes per second transfer rate?  Make sure you aren't confusing these USB 3.0 ports with Asmedia, NEC, or other brand.

 

I have a working Ivy Bridge Z77 and the Intel USB 3.0 ports are working but only at USB 2.0 speeds in Vista.  So there is no need to have Z68 to use Intel USB 3.0 ports as USB 2.0 ports.

 

I also just reinstalled a clean Vista Ultimate 64-bit SP1 on Z170 SkyLake and again no problems installing it using the optical disc drive method.  I kept it looping the screensaver for several hours and never saw any errors pop up.  Shutdown also works properly.

You will need a 3rd party USB card if you want USB mouse support or other USB device support.  The PS/2 keyboard works fine on a PS/2 port.

 

In the case of Haswell+, Vista is dead for regular laptops with Intel iGPUs only.  However there are still some laptops with 3rd party nVidia 600M series that can still use XP and Vista drivers.

For Desktops SkyLake and Kaby Lake works but you'll need a nVidia 900 series PCIe card or lower for official XP and Vista drivers.

Windows 7 64-bit will work on all laptops so if the Intel iGPU and USB 3.0 is vital to what you are doing then it's time to upgrade to get full functionality.

If you want to install Vista on a Haswell/Broadwell laptop with an Intel iGPU you can still use the basic Windows display driver but games would probably be out of the question.  As for the USB 3.0 you can get an ExpressCard on eBay to take care of that problem.

So if take that all into account Vista 64-bit isn't really dead yet on modern hardware.

SkyLake+ I would avoid for laptops if you want to use Vista.  If you slipstream the drivers for a 3rd party USB 3.0 ExpressCard you might be able to use a USB mouse and USB keyboard to install it.

I apologize; I thought Intel introduced its USB 3.0 chipsets with Sandy Bridge, but Sandy Bridge actually only supports USB 3.0 through third party chipsets (such as Asmedia). Intel didn't create their own USB 3.0 chipsets until Ivy Bridge, so Intel never released any USB 3.0 drivers for Vista, at any period. My bad.

From my understanding, Z68 boards don't have Intel USB 3.0 ports, USB 3.0 is only supported through third party chipsets. It wasn't until Z77 (Ivy Bridge) that Intel made its own USB 3.0 chipsets. So if you use a Z77 board (or any Ivy-era board), you won't get USB 3.0 driver support under Vista.

[98SE]

1 hour ago, 2008WindowsVista said:

I apologize; I thought Intel introduced its USB 3.0 chipsets with Sandy Bridge, but Sandy Bridge actually only supports USB 3.0 through third party chipsets (such as Asmedia). Intel didn't create their own USB 3.0 chipsets until Ivy Bridge, so Intel never released any USB 3.0 drivers for Vista, at any period. My bad.

From my understanding, Z68 boards don't have Intel USB 3.0 ports, USB 3.0 is only supported through third party chipsets. It wasn't until Z77 (Ivy Bridge) that Intel made its own USB 3.0 chipsets. So if you use a Z77 board (or any Ivy-era board), you won't get USB 3.0 driver support under Vista.

Well it's confusing since it's hard to say whether Intel called their USB ports on their boxes NEC USB 3.0 ports or Intel USB 3.0 ports.  I never bought any Intel motherboards so I can't comment on that.  I used a lot of 3rd party motherboards over the years and many were not boxed.

 

I checked a bunch of Z68 boards and it looks like there were no "real" Intel USB 3.0 ports on Asus/Asrock which used Asmedia 3rd Party controllers and Intel USB 2.0 ports mixture.

 

This links seems to confirm the 7 Series Panther Point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0

Intel released its first chipset with integrated USB 3.0 ports in 2012 with the release of the Panther Point chipset. Some industry analysts have claimed that Intel was slow to integrate USB 3.0 into the chipset, thus slowing mainstream adoption.[31] These delays may be due to problems in the CMOS manufacturing process,[32] a focus to advance the Nehalem platform,[33] a wait to mature all the 3.0 connections standards (USB 3.0, PCIe 3.0, SATA 3.0) before developing a new chipset,[34][35] or a tactic by Intel to favor its new Thunderbolt interface.[36] Apple, Inc. announced laptops with USB 3.0 ports on 11 June 2012, nearly four years after USB 3.0 was finalized.

 

However during the Z68 Intel was still making motherboards and then they suddenly quit with the DX79.  The Z68 I found did have Intel USB ports but they were from NEC.  I didn't look hard enough but to find any others but looking at this driver link it shows some compatible Intel boards using the NEC USB 3.0.

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/19880/USB-3-0-Renesas-Electronics-USB-3-0-Driver

 

Now I took the time to double check my Z77 MB specs running Vista 64-Bit and they do have a mix of USB 3.1 Gen1 ports by Intel® Z77 and USB 3.1 Gen1 ports by Etron.

In the Device Manager the Intel 7 Series USB Enhanced Host Controller is listed.  This is the Intel USB 3.0 ports acting as USB 2.0 ports.  Only in Windows 7 is it identified as xHCI because it's using a proper xHCI driver.  So like I said on XP the Intel USB 3.0 ports will act like USB 2.0 ports and in my tests even in Vista they operate at USB 2.0 speeds.

 

So the original reason to upgrade to Windows 7 was just the Intel USB 3.0 speeds but if you have a 3rd Party onboard ports or USB 3.0 cards that might of held you off from upgrading but now that a lot software simply won't run or drivers only supports Windows 7 this makes it more likely it will be Hasta La Vista.  If you can add Quick Launch back and Clear Desktop Icon the way it is in XP/Vista that solves most of the user interface issues making Windows 7 more user friendly.  Get back the old XP search interface then I would say Windows 7 would be usable and no more need for Vista.

 

[burd]

15 minutes ago, 98SE said:

Well it's confusing since it's hard to say whether Intel called their USB ports on their boxes NEC USB 3.0 ports or Intel USB 3.0 ports.  I never bought any Intel motherboards so I can't comment on that.  I used a lot of 3rd party motherboards over the years and many were not boxed.

 

I checked a bunch of Z68 boards and it looks like there were no "real" Intel USB 3.0 ports on Asus/Asrock which used Asmedia 3rd Party controllers and Intel USB 2.0 ports mixture.

 

This links seems to confirm the 7 Series Panther Point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0

Intel released its first chipset with integrated USB 3.0 ports in 2012 with the release of the Panther Point chipset. Some industry analysts have claimed that Intel was slow to integrate USB 3.0 into the chipset, thus slowing mainstream adoption.[31] These delays may be due to problems in the CMOS manufacturing process,[32] a focus to advance the Nehalem platform,[33] a wait to mature all the 3.0 connections standards (USB 3.0, PCIe 3.0, SATA 3.0) before developing a new chipset,[34][35] or a tactic by Intel to favor its new Thunderbolt interface.[36] Apple, Inc. announced laptops with USB 3.0 ports on 11 June 2012, nearly four years after USB 3.0 was finalized.

 

However during the Z68 Intel was still making motherboards and then they suddenly quit with the DX79.  The Z68 I found did have Intel USB ports but they were from NEC.  I didn't look hard enough but to find any others but looking at this driver link it shows some compatible Intel boards using the NEC USB 3.0.

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/19880/USB-3-0-Renesas-Electronics-USB-3-0-Driver

 

Now I took the time to double check my Z77 MB specs running Vista 64-Bit and they do have a mix of USB 3.1 Gen1 ports by Intel® Z77 and USB 3.1 Gen1 ports by Etron.

In the Device Manager the Intel 7 Series USB Enhanced Host Controller is listed.  This is the Intel USB 3.0 ports acting as USB 2.0 ports.  Only in Windows 7 is it identified as xHCI because it's using a proper xHCI driver.  So like I said on XP the Intel USB 3.0 ports will act like USB 2.0 ports and in my tests even in Vista they operate at USB 2.0 speeds.

 

So the original reason to upgrade to Windows 7 was just the Intel USB 3.0 speeds but if you have a 3rd Party onboard ports or USB 3.0 cards that might of held you off from upgrading but now that a lot software simply won't run or drivers only supports Windows 7 this makes it more likely it will be Hasta La Vista.  If you can add Quick Launch back and Clear Desktop Icon the way it is in XP/Vista that solves most of the user interface issues making Windows 7 more user friendly.  Get back the old XP search interface then I would say Windows 7 would be usable and no more need for Vista.

 

Vista is Vista any Editing to Windows 7 will never make it the real deal as Vista, You Cant Really Compare.

[98SE]

2 hours ago, burd said:

Vista is Vista any Editing to Windows 7 will never make it the real deal as Vista, You Cant Really Compare.

Yup but you're going to have to live within the limitations of Vista which is acceptable for most people as long as the software you are using works fine.  So far almost 1 year unactivated Vista Ultimate 64-Bit still hasn't shut down and doesn't nag like Windows 10 does within the 1st month.  3rd Party USB 3.0 drivers are fast enough for video editing.  The only real deal killer would be some vital software which only works in Windows 7 for some reason and not Vista.  Blu-ray software players won't work which actually is a negative for Vista.  Office 2016 only for Windows 7 and Windows 10 and Tax Act 2017 don't work any more which a year prior worked fine for XP and Vista.  So this might force some newbie users to upgrade out of necessity.  I just set up a dummy basic Windows 7 boot up install for that and return back to Vista.

The only way I would use Windows 7 in a permanent situation would be if those features which mimicked XP that Vista also does could be done.

But in the end you can only hold out for so long.  I think a higher Windows XP and 7 combined tally would be more useful to battle Windows 10 from gaining any more ground than a Vista tally which doesn't show up any more in significant numbers.  The longer XP and 7 holds out and more people downgrade back will Windows 10 suffer its own fate.  Windows 8 and 8.1 already demonstrated major rejection probably worse than Vista experienced.  Imagine if Windows 10 was never offered for free and MS didn't trick Windows 7 users into force upgrading they'd probably be at the same levels as Windows 8 and 8.1 usage.  You find a way to backport DX12 and add W7 compatibility Vista will kill Windows 10 in a heartbeat.

 

Edited October 14, 2017 by 98SE

[burd]

35 minutes ago, 98SE said:

Yup but you're going to have to live within the limitations of Vista which is acceptable for most people as long as the software you are using works fine.  So far almost 1 year unactivated Vista Ultimate 64-Bit still hasn't shut down and doesn't nag like Windows 10 does within the 1st month.  3rd Party USB 3.0 drivers are fast enough for video editing.  The only real deal killer would be some vital software which only works in Windows 7 for some reason and not Vista.  Blu-ray software players won't work which actually is a negative for Vista.  Office 2016 only for Windows 7 and Windows 10 and Tax Act 2017 don't work any more which a year prior worked fine for XP and Vista.  So this might force some newbie users to upgrade out of necessity.  I just set up a dummy basic Windows 7 boot up install for that and return back to Vista.

The only way I would use Windows 7 in a permanent situation would be if those features which mimicked XP that Vista also does could be done.

But in the end you can only hold out for so long.  I think a higher Windows XP and 7 combined tally would be more useful to battle Windows 10 from gaining any more ground than a Vista tally which doesn't show up any more in significant numbers.  The longer XP and 7 holds out and more people downgrade back will Windows 10 suffer its own fate.  Windows 8 and 8.1 already demonstrated major rejection probably worse than Vista experienced.  Imagine if Windows 10 was never offered for free and MS didn't trick Windows 7 users into force upgrading they'd probably be at the same levels as Windows 8 and 8.1 usage.  You find a way to backport DX12 and add W7 compatibility Vista will kill Windows 10 in a heartbeat.

 

DX12 isnt needed,you have vulkan which is really good, though the official drivers DO include beta vulkan drivers,im unsure if it works or not,unless someone can test it, also if it doesnt work a backport would be nice because a vulkan backport had already been released for XP which is really sad and happy at the same time.

[98SE]

1 hour ago, burd said:

DX12 isnt needed,you have vulkan which is really good, though the official drivers DO include beta vulkan drivers,im unsure if it works or not,unless someone can test it, also if it doesnt work a backport would be nice because a vulkan backport had already been released for XP which is really sad and happy at the same time.

That's all Windows 10 (IMO) has going for it against 7.  If DX12 flops or Vista and 7 get DX12 back ports then it's game over for W10.  Vulcan would turns things around if it can gain steam for XP and 7 gaming.  Or all things considered the software companies stick to DX11.0 only giving Vista and Windows 7 more life so DX12 doesn't gain traction.  Think of all the W8 and 8.1 adopters who probably are p***ed no DX12 update so they'll definitely want DX11 gaming support to cover all the bases.  DX12 will be more of an XBOX1 feature.  I found a small list of 7 exclusive titles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_12_support

 

Edited October 14, 2017 by 98SE