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Running Windows 98 in 2020 and beyond...


Wunderbar98

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49 minutes ago, Wunderbar98 said:

@Dave-H. Yes i remember the natural keyboards, query very early 2000s. Some of my coworkers liked them, supposed to keep better wrist alignment. I worked in healthcare back then when RSDs (repetitive strain disorders) were trending. Personally i type well when needed but cross over fingers too much when gaming, never got used to the split layout. Good quality keyboard.

I still use one of those "natural keyboards"  :cheerleader:

But I also feel like I had to teach myself "two ways" to type - one way for at home, another way for at work.

And I had to teach myself to use the left hand for #6 versus the right hand - which probably only means I was always using the wrong finger for #6 to begin with.

I haven't shopped around for one of the "natural keyboards" in years though, don't think they make them with the short-stroke-depress keys like most keyboards nowadays.

The short-stroke-depress keys is probably much more of a fatique-preventative ergonomic advancement than the angled "natural keyboard" was/is.

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My hands are falling off only, when I have to do boring things on my computer. But else, I don't need any good keyboard and continue with old, scrappy keyboards, even a 10 hour programming session. Just the Ctrl key was annoyingly stuck and I've regreased it like a bicycle. Now the keystrokes flow again.

With a Windows 98 machine, there is not much to complain about. It just works perfectly reliable. Well, except for the occasional hang-ups that Windows 98 has, but restarting always helps. At least since 22 years...

I think the difference between 98 and 98SE is small. Most programs and hardware runs on both, if it supports one of the two.

Here, I wanted to show you this: A currently working Windows 98 online game. Armagetron! (https://www.armagetronad.org/) Free Software. Competitive Snake. Very raw game. Left, right, brake, look around, that's all. Pure skill (and lag perception). To become good at this game against other human players, you probably need serious autism! Works on a Pentium 2.
If you like to have a look at Armagetron, this video shows it well:
https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=x8HY0Wh_ZgE

Quote Wunderbar98:
"
i resemble that (grumpy old dinosaur). Why not, there's lots to be grumpy about. Anyone who used good old hardware and software back in the day can see where things have led.
"

Ah, relatable attitude. Will go extinct, but at least we pointed the finger at bad changes and were right. Sigh, probably the old machines will be the best option to do computing stuff in the next years, too. If you play with me Armagetron, we'll form a group called the "Windows 98 Dinosaurs" and shock all these Discord kids with proper technology, haha!

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  • Dave-H changed the title to Running Windows 98 in 2020 and beyond...
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Quote:
6 hr Dave-H changed the title to Running Windows 98 in 2020 and beyond...
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Hi @Dave-H. What is the rationale to arbitrarily remove 'vanilla' from the thread title, it's been like this since November 2019. The relevant discussion to 'vanilla' is outlined between @siria -> @bphlpt -> @Wunderbar98 -> @bphlpt.

https://msfn.org/board/topic/177106-running-windows-98-in-2020-and-beyond/page/11/#comment-1173541

There are plenty of forum posts here pertaining to tweaked systems where the software versions discussed won't run on a fresh vanilla Windows 98 install. This thread is a safe-haven for those setting up a new system that don't want or require major OS manipulation to get some software running.

There's a big difference between software that will run in vanilla Windows 98 FE or SE versus swappping DLLs, Kernel Extensions, major registry hacks, etc. When i got back into Windows 98 in about 2017 it took many hours, days actually, to find out exactly which softare versions were last supported by a vanilla installation. Maybe this thread can save other, now 'retro' users, the effort. If the thread just turns into another free-for-all then it's anyone's guess what will actually run on their particular system or how many modifications are required.

PS. Since admins read these posts, could someone please restore or comment on my missing SpellForce post from ~3 weeks ago.
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14 hours ago, Wunderbar98 said:

---
Quote:
6 hr Dave-H changed the title to Running Windows 98 in 2020 and beyond...
---

Hi @Dave-H. What is the rationale to arbitrarily remove 'vanilla' from the thread title, it's been like this since November 2019. The relevant discussion to 'vanilla' is outlined between @siria -> @bphlpt -> @Wunderbar98 -> @bphlpt.

...  SpellForce post from ~3 weeks ago.

SpellForce post from ~3 weeks ago, sorry I missed it ! Write me via PMs, if they don't want your posts here, I'll help.

@Dave-H, my opinion: SpellForce is quite on-topic, since it's officially supported on Vanilla Win 98.

https://www.sysrequirements.com/game/spellforce#minimum-requirements

 
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Just for the record, the word 'vanilla' was not removed from the thread title 'arbitrarily' at all.
It was removed after a moderators' discussion which was triggered by getting a report requesting that the thread be locked as it had drifted into discussing general issues with all versions of Windows 98.
We felt that it was a valuable thread that should not be closed, but it had become more of a general discussion about running Windows 98 systems in the present hardware and software environment, so the title was amended to reflect that.
That is how it will remain.
:yes:

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Hi @D.Draker. Sorry you missed my post, my PM is disabled as i don't frequent here much. First third without cheats then with cheats i finished SpellForce: Order of Dawn, it was good fun. Level 26 character, two-handed weapons, more force than spells. All SpellForce related data was purged to effectively full-return the game to you. Thanks for lending it to me and your help and patience setting up the game. Take care.
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Thanks for responses @NotHereToPlayGames and @Gansangriff, nice to see you again. Good to limp along old hardware, proud of you both. After many repairs my 20+ year old IBM mouse scroll lever broke, it's still a good 3-click mouse, just no scroll. Got so used to using arrow and page up/down keys, doesn't matter anymore. The 19" CRT monitor that was soldered and tuned several months ago still works like new again. An old popcorn maker switch, datestamped 1984, continues to power on my older Windows 98 tower, gets more use now than it ever did as a popcorn maker. The broken headphones that were re-wired, both channels into one ear, still work fine.

Bugged me, confirmed, some Microsoft Natural Keyboards may have already been manufactured in the late 1990s. Advertised on my Windows 98 SE install CD (1999 release) but not my Windows 95 install CD (1997 release):
D:\cdsample\videos\keyboard.mpg

Looking forward to checking out Armagetron later.

Test to work in Windows 98 SE after feature discovery in a non-Windows file manager. Right-click on Windows Explorer whitespace in a directory and select Properties. A recursive file count and directory size is automatically displayed without having to tediously 'select all' first.
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Thanks for getting back to me @Dave-H. I enjoyed this thread and it helped me very much but i probably won't post much anymore. Seems strange to lock an on-topic thread in a slow forum. Thread lock requests, closed door discussions, arbitrary post deletion and title renames without comment or consultation. Seems underhanded but nothing surprises me anymore.

If this thread doesn't meet someone's needs, it's pretty easy to ignore. It's also pretty easy for another member to start a new topic catering exactly to what they require. Sad, leaves a sour taste. To the thread lock requester, shame on you, please learn to share space and co-habitate with fellow humans.

Feel free to lock the thread it doesn't matter anymore, but please have the decency to keep this post. Thank-you to all who participated here in the last few years. I learned a lot and have some very good running Windows 98 systems.
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On 12/10/2022 at 6:53 PM, Wunderbar98 said:

Thanks for getting back to me @Dave-H. I enjoyed this thread and it helped me very much but i probably won't post much anymore. Seems strange to lock an on-topic thread in a slow forum. Thread lock requests, closed door discussions, arbitrary post deletion and title renames without comment or consultation. Seems underhanded but nothing surprises me anymore.

If this thread doesn't meet someone's needs, it's pretty easy to ignore. It's also pretty easy for another member to start a new topic catering exactly to what they require. Sad, leaves a sour taste. To the thread lock requester, shame on you, please learn to share space and co-habitate with fellow humans.

Feel free to lock the thread it doesn't matter anymore, but please have the decency to keep this post. Thank-you to all who participated here in the last few years. I learned a lot and have some very good running Windows 98 systems.

Removing my reply, reconsidered.

Edited by D.Draker
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On 12/10/2022 at 8:53 PM, Wunderbar98 said:

Feel free to lock the thread it doesn't matter anymore, but please have the decency to keep this post. Thank-you to all who participated here in the last few years. I learned a lot and have some very good running Windows 98 systems.

No, in my opinion, such beautiful topics like these don't deserve a lock. I am sorry that you feel like this.

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What happened here?

When Wunderbar98 started this thread, I came here precisely because it was about running "vanilla" Windows 98 editions without anything like KernelEx.

Just the same pure experience of doing it the first time we did in 1998 and later.

I feel like his thread was "hijacked" by people with different Windows 98 experiences that have nothing to do with the goal of running it the vanilla way.

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Most programs work in any way, regardless of having a Windows 98 First Edition, Second Edition or 98lite- or KernelEx-enhanced version. If OS version dependant problems occur for one chap running FE and the other running SE-KernelEx, it will be little effort to look for the actual version being in use.

I felt the "vanilla" in the thread title had the nice taste of vanilla ice cream on the tongue. Although Win98 tastes either way well, the basic 1998 version and the patched "current" version. Anyways, this thread was good so far for bringing together the 10 people of around the world that use this obsolete technology and want to write/ask things about it. Surely the 10 could be split up into 4 98SE-vanillas, 2 FE-robusts, 2 98patch-Hightechies and 2 98-BETA-stoneagers...

Cross-talk between these groups probably was helpful!

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On 12/9/2022 at 12:17 PM, Gansangriff said:

Here, I wanted to show you this: A currently working Windows 98 online game. Armagetron! (https://www.armagetronad.org/) Free Software. Competitive Snake. Very raw game. Left, right, brake, look around, that's all. Pure skill (and lag perception). To become good at this game against other human players, you probably need serious autism! Works on a Pentium 2.
If you like to have a look at Armagetron, this video shows it well:
https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=x8HY0Wh_ZgE

Do you think they also test on Win98? BTW, it's known as Retrocycles on Steam (SteamDB page).

Edited by UCyborg
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