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Windows XP - Deepest Impressions


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6 hours ago, Jody Thornton said:

All I can say is you're STUBBORN STUBBORN STUBBORN @LoneCrusader.  You prove that by refusing to move beyond Vista (when in fact Windows 7 and Vista are kissing cousins)

Yes, I am. Thank you for the compliment, Jody.
Remember though that I didn't say I liked Vista. I said it was tolerable because it retained the full classic UI and for the most part it can be made to look and behave like the older versions. And while I will always prefer the classic UI, I will give Microsoft some small credit for attempting to make a nice-looking OS with Vista. Vista is a failure on many levels, but they did try to make it look nice.
And yes, I know, there are ways to return Windows 7 and later to the classic UI. I shouldn't have to use a third-party program to replace something that never should have been removed in the first place. Did Microsoft have the right to remove it? Yes. But I have the right to disagree with their choice and refuse to use it.

6 hours ago, Jody Thornton said:

You also prove that you're stubborn and unwilling to bend by continuing to use phrases like "I weasel statements" or "I'm not neutral" to describe me, and you continue to say I'm a troll.  I only asked a question when this content was still in the Firefox petition thread (by the way you only answered with your tripe after the content was moved here so you must think I just decided to revisit this thread).  My initial question from the Firefox thread  is still valid.  How long can you expect Mozilla to have their hand forced by users of an older OS?  It wasn't even a question asked squarely aimed at XP.  It was an honest, fair and direct question to ask.

So you're saying I was not correct in my assessment of the statement you made? Do you not see how such a statement makes you biased before the discussion even begins? Do you deny that XP is only now "limited" because of the fact code is not being written for it anymore, or do you insist that it still has some vague "technical limitation," and if so, what is that limitation?


I'm well aware these posts were split from the Firefox petition thread. I even addressed that specific issue in my last post, but I will clarify. I don't believe Mozilla's hand can be "forced" at all. If Firefox were a commercial product it might be otherwise, but that's not the case. I do believe it wouldn't really be so much to ask that they simply apply security patches to 52.x.xesr for a while longer, but it's not going to happen, mainly because of people who  take the attitude that you have about older systems.
 

6 hours ago, Jody Thornton said:

By the way, you said I came here to poke at a hornets nest, did you?  So I would like you to answer me then, why is this thread (which is in a Windows 10 Forum) acceptable more than my comments are?

And no @dencorso, I want @LoneCrusader to answer this one - I appreciate your stepping in and supporting me (I REALLY DO)  :).  But Lone Crusader has decided that it's his way or the highway thorough his tone and attitude, and use of words like "troll" and "weasel" to describe me.  So he can answer that.   Yes I know, it's actually amazing that I would EVEN want to hear more from @LoneCrusader, but since the stomach ache has already set in, I can stand a bit more. (and yes, I earned the right to be insulting to you @LoneCrusader when you described me with the words I've mentioned - fair is fair).

Whenever I read something on a subject (XP, Firefox, clouds in the shy....), there should be fair, balanced analysis and commentary; not just the good.  If there are negative points or dislike, that should get mentioned too.

And I keep bringing this up, @FranceBB's good idea of a long-term support monetization would NEVER have come up if I didn't .... now what did you say I did?.... oh yes, "poked the hornets nest".  Again, my question resulted in fair and balanced conversation.  But you won't have that, will you @LoneCrusader?

I like MSFN because we're not a "Fan Boy" environment.  Let's keep it that way.  By the way, whomever it was that posted comparing the lifespan of an OS to a truck or a cat, I have a fourteen year-old feline and I would never lower her value by comparing it to that of an operating system.  Sheesh. :(

I also never said your comments were "unacceptable" or denied you the right to make them. I just noted that you can't expect a friendly reception, and you seem to become annoyed when no one agrees with you. I also never referred to you as a "weasel," I simply noted that some of your statements contain vague language and "popular wisdom" which has no basis in fact (follow the link associated with the word). Just because Microsoft or anyone else claims their newer product (which is making them money) is better than their older one (which is no longer making money) does not make it fact. As far as the term "troll" is concerned it does appear to me, based on the way that these discussions usually go (there's a relevant thread somewhere in the 9x forum especially), that you seem to enjoy provoking the users of older systems, usually with more of this "popular wisdom" garbage to generate some kind of running debate about the viability of these older systems. This can be regarded as trolling, especially since you don't even use these systems and seem to be present only to argue. I will state for the record however that this term is often painted with a very large brush and gets applied to those who don't deserve it.


With regard to any other "OS criticism" threads about 8 or 10 or whatever, if those operating systems were popular and well-loved by their userbase, I'm sure those threads would generate hostile receptions as well. The fact that almost no one steps up to defend them speaks volumes.

3 hours ago, risk_reversal said:

@LoneCrusader. Don't mean to go off topic but just had a quick look at Q4OS and XPQ4 and have a quick question.

Am I understanding this correctly. Q4OS is the Debian based Linux distribution and needs to be installed so that the XPQ4 addon can be installed to give it a Win XP/7/8/10 shell/desktop/feel. Is that correct?

Good Luck

Cheers

Yes. :)

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15 hours ago, LoneCrusader said:
19 hours ago, risk_reversal said:

@LoneCrusader. Don't mean to go off topic but just had a quick look at Q4OS and XPQ4 and have a quick question.

Am I understanding this correctly. Q4OS is the Debian based Linux distribution and needs to be installed so that the XPQ4 addon can be installed to give it a Win XP/7/8/10 shell/desktop/feel. Is that correct?

Good Luck

Cheers

Yes. :)

18 hours ago, Jody Thornton said:

Yes that's correct @rick_reversal.  I've ran two builds of it, and it's a nice OS.

Many thanks. I will go an have a play with it. The user reviews on distrowatch are very encouraging.

15 hours ago, LoneCrusader said:

Yes, I am. Thank you for the compliment, Jody.
Remember though that I didn't say I liked Vista. I said it was tolerable because it retained the full classic UI and for the most part it can be made to look and behave like the older versions. And while I will always prefer the classic UI, I will give Microsoft some small credit for attempting to make a nice-looking OS with Vista. Vista is a failure on many levels, but they did try to make it look nice.
And yes, I know, there are ways to return Windows 7 and later to the classic UI. I shouldn't have to use a third-party program to replace something that never should have been removed in the first place. Did Microsoft have the right to remove it? Yes. But I have the right to disagree with their choice and refuse to use it.

Yes. I do much prefer the classic UI rather than that of Win 8/10. I did have to download several third party progs in Win7 to replace the stuff that MS had removed which was a pain.

Win7 also does not allow folders to be placed in non alphabetical order (don't know if that persists in Win8/10) which is a real pain a lot of the time, whereas in XP one could just Align to Grid (searched for days for a permanent fix but none exists). The folder sizes in Views is always an issue, whereas XP is faultless. These are very small points but are in the main day-to-day tasks that most users undertake are really important. Personally, these two issues irritate me to death in Win7.

Thanks again for the tip on Q4OS

Cheers

 

Edited by risk_reversal
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/10/2018 at 12:28 PM, risk_reversal said:

Win7 also does not allow folders to be placed in non alphabetical order (snipped) which is a real pain a lot of the time

Please try Folder Options X :

http://free-sk.t-com.hr/T800soft/software/FolderOptionsX.html

https://github.com/T800G/FolderOptionsX

It was suggested to me by a fellow MSFN member here :thumbup but, sadly, I can't recollect his username, nor is it possible to retrieve his post: it was lost due to the forum's database corruption in early June of this year...

Like WinXP, Windows Vista retains free sorting of folders+files, a feature that was removed by M$ in Win7+'s Explorer :thumbdown; my preferred folder view in Explorer is Tiles, and the inability to freely re-arrange files/folders inside a directory drived me crazy on my sister's Win7 64bit laptop; but, thankfully, Folder Options X came to the rescue !!! :cheerleader:

Unzip and run the installer (if you want to be extra cautious, you can create a system restore point prior to the installation, I did not have to, everything went along fine...); be sure to check "Enable icon reordering" in the app's settings:

foptmgr.png

what is unfortunate is that the app was released 4 Feb 2017, too long after Win7's own release...

On 11/10/2018 at 12:28 PM, risk_reversal said:

(don't know if that persists in Win8/10)

It does... :} But the MSFN member that recommended Folder Options X tried it on Windows 8.1 and it worked there! No clue whether it works on Win10; someone would have to try and report...

Regards

Edited by VistaLover
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On 11/9/2018 at 12:57 PM, LoneCrusader said:

I know, there are ways to return Windows 7 and later to the classic UI. I shouldn't have to use a third-party program to replace something that never should have been removed in the first place.

My Win 7 still looks like Win 98! I hate CPU/GPU-gobbling special effects like transparency and the like, and the one thing I never liked about XP was the Luna theme. I always thought it made my windows look "fat."

OTOH I think Win 8+ went too far in the opposite direction with the "plain box" look. Metro reminds me of Win 3.1 and the Program Mangler!

On 11/9/2018 at 12:57 PM, LoneCrusader said:

"I'm not neutral"

It's OK @Jody Thornton; it's an opinion thread. Being neutral would kind of defeat the purpose ;)

I'm on both sides of this debate. I use Win 7 but also have Win XP mode running in a VM. Originally I just needed a 32-bit OS for older apps, and XP mode comes free with Win 7 Professional, so it was the obvious choice. But I find myself using XP mode a lot for newer apps too, like when the corporate-mandated Symantec antivirus gets a bit too aggressive and deletes Snadboy's Revelation and Opera Password Viewer from the Win 7 side :rolleyes:. (Symantec doesn't "see" what's in my XP .vhd :sneaky:.) I often forget passwords and need help from those "hacking tools" Symantec doesn't want me to have.

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  • 2 months later...
On 11/20/2018 at 2:53 AM, VistaLover said:
On 11/10/2018 at 10:28 AM, risk_reversal said:

Win7 also does not allow folders to be placed in non alphabetical order (snipped) which is a real pain a lot of the time

Please try Folder Options X :

http://free-sk.t-com.hr/T800soft/software/FolderOptionsX.html

https://github.com/T800G/FolderOptionsX

It was suggested to me by a fellow MSFN member here :thumbup but, sadly, I can't recollect his username, nor is it possible to retrieve his post: it was lost due to the forum's database corruption in early June of this year...

Like WinXP, Windows Vista retains free sorting of folders+files, a feature that was removed by M$ in Win7+'s Explorer :thumbdown; my preferred folder view in Explorer is Tiles, and the inability to freely re-arrange files/folders inside a directory drived me crazy on my sister's Win7 64bit laptop; but, thankfully, Folder Options X came to the rescue !!! :cheerleader:

Unzip and run the installer (if you want to be extra cautious, you can create a system restore point prior to the installation, I did not have to, everything went along fine...); be sure to check "Enable icon reordering" in the app's settings:

FolderOptionsX.png

what is unfortunate is that the app was released 4 Feb 2017, too long after Win7's own release...

Very late reply, but wanted to say many thanks for recommending FolderOptionsX.

Installed it an it works a treat. 

I had tried the 'Disable Auto Arrange' patch (.bat file) available from another forum but that one doesn't have as many options available and was a bugger to remove (had to reimage the drive), whereas FolderOptionsX can be easily disabled from the GUI with no issues.

The only drawback (which also exits on the .bat patch) is that the folders, etc blow up when they are dragged.

Cheers

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18 hours ago, risk_reversal said:

The only drawback (which also exists on the .bat patch) is that the folders, etc blow up when they are dragged.

... Another drawback of FolderOptionsX on Win7 that I discovered:

Folder view is Tiles; you're inside a directory which contains a mix of subfolders and various file types; imagine the case an executable is adjacent to a folder; say you decide to swap their mutual places, e.g.

foo.exe + folder => folder + foo.exe

and this is (visually) performed OK, but when you double-click the folder icon (now on the left), you'll find that you're actually executing file foo.exe; this could be unwanted, even dangerous, at times :angry: :realmad: Actually, after you are done rearranging (folder+file) icons inside the directory, you have to refresh the directory so that Windows Explorer is made aware of their new positions; I'm not certain whether the same bug manifests itself in other Folder Views, but it's definitely there in Tiles ... :}

Cheers :)

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On 11/20/2018 at 3:53 AM, VistaLover said:

Please try Folder Options X :

http://free-sk.t-com.hr/T800soft/software/FolderOptionsX.html

https://github.com/T800G/FolderOptionsX

It was suggested to me by a fellow MSFN member here :thumbup but, sadly, I can't recollect his username, nor is it possible to retrieve his post: it was lost due to the forum's database corruption in early June of this year...

That would be me. :)@NoelC told me about it at some point. At the time, I was already a big fan of QTTabBar, which also has the same function (and much more), it's just labeled differently.

On 11/20/2018 at 3:53 AM, VistaLover said:

Like WinXP, Windows Vista retains free sorting of folders+files, a feature that was removed by M$ in Win7+'s Explorer :thumbdown

It was actually disabled.

14 hours ago, VistaLover said:

... Another drawback of FolderOptionsX on Win7 that I discovered

...

It's a drawback of the older folder view control implementation on those systems. The story was that MS went to implement a new control to support Libraries functionality in Windows 7 and due to lack of time and supposedly low amount of users using the custom ordering functionality, the said functionality was never implemented in the new control. That issue isn't unique to Tiles view.

On 11/20/2018 at 3:53 AM, VistaLover said:

what is unfortunate is that the app was released 4 Feb 2017, too long after Win7's own release...

That's just the date when it was put on GitHub, it actually dates back to 2011 at least.

On 11/20/2018 at 3:53 AM, VistaLover said:

But the MSFN member that recommended Folder Options X tried it on Windows 8.1 and it worked there! No clue whether it works on Win10; someone would have to try and report...

It does, though they broke it further at some point, I guess in 2017; it doesn't remember file/folder order anymore...

On 11/21/2018 at 7:42 PM, Mathwiz said:

My Win 7 still looks like Win 98! I hate CPU/GPU-gobbling special effects like transparency and the like

I guess you don't mind screen tearing on the desktop then, something I personally find irritating (classic theme being tied to desktop rendering without DWM).

On 11/21/2018 at 7:42 PM, Mathwiz said:

and the one thing I never liked about XP was the Luna theme. I always thought it made my windows look "fat."

Shouldn't there be a setting somewhere to adjust the border height?

BTW, technically, classic theme isn't a real theme; there's no skinning capability, while with Luna, Aero, etc., graphics resources representing various GUI elements are replaceable. Unfortunately, it's only meant for internal use by MS, I guess for marketing reasons so each Windows version would have distinct aesthetics the way MS intended.

There's also an API call to disable theming; SetThemeAppProperties(0), which gives the calling application classic look, even on Windows 8+. Pretty sure it could be done somehow globally the clean way (there's a known hack for Win8+ at least that prevents the system from accessing theme resources, reverting to classic looks).

I find it absurd that code injection is the "normal" way to unlock ability to skin GUI elements on Windows.

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  • 9 months later...

Microsoft's documentation on selecting a device in Direct3D 9

The 2nd step of needed tasks for a Direct3D application running in a window:

Quote

It enumerates adapters, looking for the adapter whose monitor covers the client area. If the client area is owned by more than one adapter, then the application can choose to drive each adapter independently, or to drive a single adapter and have Direct3D transfer pixels from one device to another at presentation. The application can also disregard two preceding steps and use the D3DADAPTER_DEFAULT adapter. Note that this might result in slower operation when the window is placed on a secondary monitor.

I haven't seen the highlighted effect on newer systems (Win7+, haven't tested Vista), but on XP, even running Serpent browser on the second screen with a video playing made things so bad that even the mouse cursor started lagging; that and the general choppiness. Hacking xul.dll to make it select a different adapter restores the performance on the second screen, but that only helps if one prefers to have it on the particular screen exclusively.

Similar with Direct3D games running in a window, turn on the FPS display or some 3rd party overlay displaying it if game doesn't have its own. When on main screen, everything is fine, move it to another screen; bam, FPS count drops, CPU usage goes up.

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