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Windows XP - Deepest Impressions


Jody Thornton
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1 hour ago, Jody Thornton said:

Because I wondered initially how sound the idea of extending XP support was.  My points have a perfectly valid place.  And up until you posted your comment, we were having friendly discourse, even when we disagreed.  And I even admitted on the last post to agreeing to a concept I hadn't even considered.

That's why I post on such a question.  There is NOTHING WRONG with disagreement.

 

Haha, my comb is a joke, i dont really sell combs. Light hearted joke, newer is not always better. Skim the xp subsection, and you will find a thousand reasons people still use xp. Your "as it should be" comment is dismissive of everyone who still has a use and a preference for using xp. I will never believe the death of xp is "as it should be". Same goes with 7.

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I dont care if companies want to abandon stuff, but lately its artificial barriers to block older things. Im so glad i dont live in a "cloud" world, because all my old software wouldnt work, some guy somewhere could just flip a switch on some server and im forced to play some upgrading game on something that was working perfectly.

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55 minutes ago, MikeyV said:

Your "as it should be" comment is dismissive of everyone who still has a use and a preference for using xp. I will never believe the death of xp is "as it should be". Same goes with 7.

53 minutes ago, Jody Thornton said:

@MikeyV"As it should be" was only meant from the standpoint of a a business cycle, so as to say "hasn't enough time now gone by?".  That's what I meant to say.

Well, I didn't read @Jody Thornton as being dismissive. Then again, @jaclaz and me are often read as agressive or provocative more often than not (when declaring that "nothing is safe", for instance), when we clearly don't want to come across in that way at all... That said, things die. If one insists in using a rotary dial phone on a land line at present, it'll still work, in the sense that it will be able to make calls and receive them, but as more and more services require one to type numbers in reply to automated menus and the interfaces used for those menus only understand tones (and the dial phone uses pulse dialing), things become progressively more cumbersome and irritating. The same applies to all material devices, like the non-SSE2 single-core processors I mentioned above. Obviously, since all software, OSes included, are immaterial devices, they could, in principle, keep on being updated indefinitely, and remain up-to date and relevant, just as @FranceBB envisaged. But that would require a commitment to good engineering practices like those that spelled the end of Digital... Why? Because that is not part of the Zeitgeist anymore (and the demise of Digital has shown that already was the case in 1998!). Sic transit gloria mundi:(

 

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The simplest answer is supply and demand. If enough people are using a 10 or 20 year old os, then keep supporting it.

New Coke
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke

They should have just told everyone that they need to move on, even if it tastes bad? The old recipe should go away? The tech companies are in cokes shoes now, but they are telling the customers to keep drinking the bad stuff.

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2 hours ago, Jody Thornton said:

@MikeyV"As it should be" was only meant from the standpoint of a a business cycle, so as to say "hasn't enough time now gone by?".  That's what I meant to say.

(by the way that could be ten years)

 

Ten years?

A few days ago I saw an article that said 4 year old computers are obsolete and should be replaced.

I only have one computer that is less than 4 years old and it is the one I use least.

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2 hours ago, bluebolt said:

Don't we already have a thread for "whether XP" generally?

We sure do, and I've just moved here everything not pertaining to the petition. So, both threads are right on-topic at the moment. :yes:

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13 hours ago, Jody Thornton said:

Problem is though guys, that you're asking a company to not move forward with a vision for the future, one that XP cannot be part of because of technical limitations.  Maybe the limitations of Firefox on XP and NT 5x systems are "fake" ones right now, but down the road that won't be the case.  There will be architectural limitations that cannot be overcome.

Two things I would ask XP fans:

(a) How long do you expect Mozilla to support XP for?

(b} When sites become incompatible with an XP-supported Firefox, what should Mozilla do then to satisfy you?

These aren't slags or insults being thrown at you.  I want to really know when is it OK for XP to be dead OS (for online applications and use)?  Because one day, that will have to be accepted.

 

I see you've decided to come trolling again Jody... because what else is this really? If you no longer use XP, you no longer care about XP, and you think XP users are somehow backward, then why do you bother to come here to read the XP forum or even attempt to engage the XP users? You say you come here for "discussion" - but most of the time you're only interested in pushing the "accept change and move on" argument. You will agree or semi-agree with some minor point here and there to maintain the impression that you're having a fair discussion or that you're open-minded, but in the end your opinion never really changes. So why do you keep expecting other users minds to change? Do you just like to keep the disagreement stirred up to waste everyone's time?

Why do you have such an intense interest in what operating system others choose to use if your mind is already made up about it?

Why does it seem to bother you so much when other people don't just "go with the flow?"

Who are you to question anyone else for their choices, or to seek "justifications" for those choices? (even if, as you claim, you mean nothing ill by it)

If you really believe that something newer is always better, then you're welcome to your opinion. But that's nothing more than "chronological snobbery." The fact that something is newer does not make it better than something older. In fact, the reverse is frequently true.

 

This attitude (prevalent most everywhere I look online these days) that it's OK to force, browbeat, insult the intelligence of, shame, chide, or in any other manner "push" users of any product to give it up for something newer just because someone else says it's better is a cancer, pure and simple. I'll bet that most people pushing this drivel would be deeply offended if say, someone told them their political views were wrong and that they should change because someone else says so. Too many people today are willing to sing the praises of freedom until that freedom applies to something they don't like.

Yes, Microsoft has a right to change their products and/or change their business philosophy or whatever. But as far as I am concerned they have a moral obligation to NOT WILLFULLY make it more difficult for users of previous products to keep those products operating. Said users paid for those products, and the fact that some time has passed does not make those users somehow obligated to give up something that works perfectly well and buy something else because Microsoft says so. Don't want to support it any longer? Fine. But don't start putting roadblocks out for those older systems intentionally.

This is the main root of the problem that many of us have with Microsoft and many other software/tech companies. It's not what they choose to do, but how they go about doing it. So they want to release a new operating system? Fine. Release it, and if it's really better than what users already have then people will begin to move to it of their own accord. Where the problem arises is 1)when they start pushing FUD garbage about how suddenly you will become vulnerable to this or that catastrophe simply because you haven't chosen to move on; 2)when they use their "influence" to push other companies and products to no longer support an older system; and 3)when they start "manipulating history" to remove information or files relevant to older products, thereby making it more difficult to keep the older systems running (which once again were paid for, and the fact that time has passed does not invalidate this). Very few things make me angrier than when I follow a link to Microsoft's site that is supposed to lead me to some documentation or update for an older system and instead I get some garbage like "We're sorry. This page/update is no longer available. Update to Windows 10 today! It's up to date, fast and secure!" My response? Sure. When .... freezes over.

 

10 hours ago, MikeyV said:

But seriously, what i wonder more is why people would come to an xp specific section in a forum just to p*** on everyones parade. After you rid the world of old OS users, there are people world wide who, brace yourself, like old cars. Destroy their communities, think of the poor car manufacturers.

+1

9 hours ago, Mcinwwl said:

Deepest hatred towards two phenomena, fashion and planned obsolence, and I see elements of both in comments like quoted above ;)

Because, actually, why it should? And who decided that. I have nothing against improvement or development, but here I see more a sake for the sake of change.

Amen. +1

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7 hours ago, rloew said:

Ten years?

A few days ago I saw an article that said 4 year old computers are obsolete and should be replaced.

I only have one computer that is less than 4 years old and it is the one I use least.

I got the reason 0f all ewaste

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13 hours ago, MikeyV said:

Haha, my comb is a joke, i dont really sell combs.

Sure you don't sell them, that's clearly a CAAS (Combs As A Service) approach. :whistle:

12 hours ago, dencorso said:

... Then again, @jaclaz and me are often read as agressive or provocative more often than not (when declaring that "nothing is safe", for instance), when we clearly don't want to come across in that way at all... That said, things die. If one insists in using a rotary dial phone on a land line at present, it'll still work, in the sense that it will be able to make calls and receive them, but as more and more services require one to type numbers in reply to automated menus and the interfaces used for those menus only understand tones (and the dial phone uses pulse dialing), things become progressively more cumbersome and irritating. 

I cannot say about dencorso, but jaclaz tends to be often intentionally  provocative (though not intentionally aggressive) ...

Fun fact, set aside rotary dials, at least here in Italy so-called toll-free numbers (starting by 800) tend to be actually toll free only from a land line (and not reachable from cellular), and most firms that provide such numbers have a separate number (with a small, but still not-free) fee. (and when the stupid[1] answering system doesn't offer the actual option you need -which is nearly always - and you actually need to talk to an operator, it is not unusual to wait for several minutes on hold).

 

Back to the actual JodyT question/doubt, and only as an example, I somehow managed to survive (till today) without Mozilla and their stupid[2] browser by using a combination of Opera (the real thing, Presto Engine), Iron and QTweb.

I do actually find - from time to time - stupidly[3] configured/designed websites that I cannot easily access with the above, and here  is where a line should be drawn:

 is the site offering ONLY a service (of any kind) that requires some form of login, subscription or similar (including payment, etc.)?

If yes, then the owners have all the right in the world (+1) to implement as much safe browsing, exclusive use of the latest technology and what not to secure the exchange of data.

If no, and the site is only a (virtual) windows shop, it should be as plain (and fast) as possible, and accessible by *anything* (you don't open a shop in a gated alley inside a private compound, you open it in a place as visible and as trafficked as possible).

When I find this latter kind, (besides making the usual consideration about how humanity is doomed to extinction by its own stupidity) I often take the time to write them telling them how I might have been interested in the whatever product(s) they offer, but that since I couldn't see anything about it easily, with the poor tools I have at my dispoosal, I strated looking elsewhere.

 

In a nutshell, at the moment (today) you (actually I) can still survive with XP (and without Firefox/Mozilla) with only a very minor number of annoyances.

Tomorrow is another day.

jaclaz 

 

 

[1] here I actually mean "stupid"
[2] here I mean "stupid" only in the sense of the countless number of artificial limitations, often absurd presets and more generally the "new" attitude of "we are doing this for your own good".
[3] and here I mean "stupidly" as in BOTH the above meanings

Edited by jaclaz
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@LoneCrusader +1

I recently built a new pc which dual boots XP & Win7. Just because something is old does not mean it should be discarded and replaced.

This is the first time that I have installed Win7 on any machine, only for reason that I am fully aware that however much I like XP, it is regrettably inevitable that new hardware and software will no longer be able to function (eg sourcing HDD 512n and browsers).

My car is 17 years old. Running perfectly well and has very low mileage. Should I also just get rid of that too because it does not have all the latest features?

The users of this forum are not only incredibly knowledgeable but have been so very helpful to me; there is no need to criticise them.

Good Luck

 

Edited by risk_reversal
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3 hours ago, risk_reversal said:

This is the first time that I have installed Win7 on any machine, only for reason that I am fully aware that however much I like XP, it is regrettably inevitable that new hardware and software will no longer be able to function (eg sourcing HDD 512n and browsers).

Only 4Kn Internal Drives need Windows 7. These are normally used only in servers.

512e Drives require proper partitioning or formatting to be used efficiently but run just fine in XP.

512n is the format used by older Drives and does not require any special considerations.

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6 hours ago, LoneCrusader said:

I see you've decided to come trolling again Jody... because what else is this really? If you no longer use XP, you no longer care about XP, and you think XP users are somehow backward, then why do you bother to come here to read the XP forum or even attempt to engage the XP users? You say you come here for "discussion" - but most of the time you're only interested in pushing the "accept change and move on" argument. You will agree or semi-agree with some minor point here and there to maintain the impression that you're having a fair discussion or that you're open-minded, but in the end your opinion never really changes. So why do you keep expecting other users minds to change? Do you just like to keep the disagreement stirred up to waste everyone's time?

 

Ah jeez - the reason this came up was because of a petition to extend Firefox support and force Mozilla's hand.  Stop saying I'm trolling.  Only you are acting aggressive now.  There are others here (also long-time XP users who get just what I'm saying.

Oh and by the way, this thread was specifically meant for criticism of XP or at least critical analysis, so why are you here p***ing in my corn flakes now?  Seems your pot calling the kettle black.

If we're allowed a thread called "Windows 10 is Crap" then CERTAINLY one can question the longevity of support for an old OS.

 

EDIT:  Oh and by the way, go and look at my response to @FrancesBB.  He actually did go and change my mind somewhat.  So stop saying I'm asking a question for no reason at all.

Edited by Jody Thornton
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