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Jody Thornton

Windows XP - Deepest Impressions

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3 hours ago, JodyT said:

Wow!  Lots to read here.  And I don't think bringing Linux alternatives into the discussion is a bad thing, because it should be possible route onwards.  See, just because Dibya (with all due respect) fights everyday against the death of XP, the wish to express the opposite side should be allowed as well - even on MSFN.  And that viewpoint is - the only reason that XP should EVER be discussed in 2017 is to decide how you're going to get off of it.  To some people, that is a completely valid opinion.  So I hope this thread allows for it.

I will admit, I'm impressed by the projects such as New Moon and what not (does it work as an x64 build by chance?).  But it's like me admiring a Garrard 1960's record changer.  I love watching them play, but I'd never use my best vinyl on it.  See what I mean?  Not meant to be argumentative - it's just a different viewpoint.

So I'm looking forward to engage with you guys on this.  Disagreements don't have to mean fighting - but I find I learn more from those I disagree with, than those who just echo my same sentiments.

:)

 

We should replace XP with 10 for what? To get rabzer random ware, first party spyware so on.

7 is dying very soon. 8 already died . Many things not going to work on 8.1 after 2020. Hello are you aware their certain Russian malware's work only on 8/8.1 even avs cannot help you to get rid of them.

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10 hours ago, Dibya said:

We should replace XP with 10 for what? To get rabzer random ware, first party spyware so on.

7 is dying very soon. 8 already died . Many things not going to work on 8.1 after 2020. Hello are you aware their certain Russian malware's work only on 8/8.1 even avs cannot help you to get rid of them.

Well yes, 8 is dead too.  In fact, I use 8 in the same manner you use XP.  It is also unsupported.  And I also use patches from another source, just the way XP folks do.

But let's face it, Windows 8 can still run most current software, and is good deal more stable on current hardware (and takes more advantage of it).  Even Vista was in the Windows NT 6x class, though I admit it's aging.  You and I both agree on Windows 10 at present.  I do not like the product at all.

But look at all of the cool things NoelC is doing with Windows 8.1 - he is using it as a productive, supported workstation.  We have until October 2023 by the way Dibya.  That's six years of patches.

:)

 

Edited by JodyT
I misspelled Dibya's name - sorry Dibya :)
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10 hours ago, bphlpt said:

Absolutely, @JodyT, and this is a perfect thread for you to comment in to your heart's content. :)  Hopefully, there will be many, respectful, comments on both sides to keep the conversation interesting.

Cheers and Regards

Thank you bphlpt

(yours is the sort of on-screen name I wonder for the life of me how to pronounce it ....lol)

 

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49 minutes ago, JodyT said:

Well yes, 8 is dead too.  In fact, I use 8 in the same manner you use XP.  It is also unsupported. 

An important difference is that XP was a very successful OS while W8 was the same failure than Vista :
http://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/worldwide#monthly-200901-201709

When comparing XP and W7, I found that XP starts in 40 seconds and uses 80 MB of memory, while W7 starts in 1min 20s and I couldn't find a way to have it with less than 220 MB. I disabled all services mentioned in the barebone configuration by Black Viper but no luck. 220 MB of ram seems to be the strict minimum for W7.

That's why I don't use W7, because it's a bloatware, because it's ergonomy is a total catastroph and finally that super crap of .NET is now part of the system since some administration tools are written with it.

Finally, about using unsupported OSes, I think there is absolutely no security at all in the computing world. For example, the fact that a browser identifies the system and the browser version in User Agents is an huge security failure and that exists with all systems and all browsers.  I think security is a joke, the only security is to backup your data.

Have a nice day. :)

Edited by hotnuma

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5 minutes ago, hotnuma said:

An important difference is that XP was a very successful OS while W8 was the same failure than Vista :
http://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/worldwide#monthly-200901-201709

When comparing XP and W7, i found that XP starts in 40 seconds and uses 80 MB of memory, while W7 starts in 1min 20s and I couldn't find a way to have it with less than 220 MB. I disabled all services mentioned in the barebone configuration by Black Viper but no luck. 220 MB of ram seems to be the strict minimum for W7.

Have a nice day. :)

Good Morning hotnuma :)

My thinking is, who cares how much RAM is used during a boot session?  I close unnecessary services and processes too.  but once I've booted, I'm using nearly a gigabyte of memory.  On Windows 8, I have 7 GB of RAM, and while running Pale Moon (with seven tabs) and Windows Mail (brought over from Vista), I'm suing 1.9 GB of RAM.

But that's OK.  Some of that is Prefetch, some of that are services, some of that are svchost takss running for each process.  A robust system will use more RAM and CPU.  What good is all of the extra hardware if it's not put to use?  And count on it, Windows 8 is definitely more stable than XP (though I have to say that the x64 build was exemplary).  Even Vista, once all of my video issues were dealt with, was QUITE stable.  Much more than XP.

Even all of the space taken up with the component store; I've come to realize that it's a necessary evil.  I have never had a BSOD on Windows 8 - ever.  Even on Vista x64 SP2, the only BSOD was when I was experimenting with display adapters.  After that was fixed - no more.

There's more to discuss there on your post, but I'll need to do it later.  Good points you've made.  :)

 

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42 minutes ago, hotnuma said:

while W7 starts in 1min 20s

How old is your PC? I guess you cant expect faster boot time on Pentium 3, but on my 9 year old PC (with HDD) windows 7 starts in 26 seconds...

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I done all these tests in Virtual Box. I took the total startup time, from the "start" menu of the VM to the network icon available in the task bar. It is surely longer in a VM than on a real modern machine of course. The host computer is also 10 years old. :D

I tried also Debian 9 with a minimal LxQt and the startup time is even longer. It's 1m43s while it uses the same amount of memory than XP, about 80 MB. It seems than the kernel init is very long I don't know exactly why.

A last note to say that the real host was installed in 2014 and the memory usage of XP on that real machine is 140 MB, so the memory usage grows a little bit with time apparently or maybe drivers take more memory, I don't know exactly.

I use Clam AV on it, so there is no real time scanning. With Avast installed it uses 275 MB. :w00t:

:)

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2 hours ago, JodyT said:

What good is all of the extra hardware if it's not put to use?

That's a wrong question. The right question is: what good is all the extra task and processes that the end user don't need, but have to support them with extra hardware purchases, spending extra electric power and extra Internet traffic?

2 hours ago, JodyT said:

 And count on it, Windows 8 is definitely more stable than XP

You forgot to add "in my impression". I can say, from my point of view, that any NT-based system is quite stable, if there is no hardware or driver problems, and no malicious software installed. It is normal for XP to have a month of uptime (from one updates-related reboot to another) or even more without any troubles. It is normal for 7, 8 or 10 also.

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13 hours ago, JodyT said:

Good Morning hotnuma :)

My thinking is, who cares how much RAM is used during a boot session?  I close unnecessary services and processes too.  but once I've booted, I'm using nearly a gigabyte of memory.  On Windows 8, I have 7 GB of RAM, and while running Pale Moon (with seven tabs) and Windows Mail (brought over from Vista), I'm suing 1.9 GB of RAM.

But that's OK.  Some of that is Prefetch, some of that are services, some of that are svchost takss running for each process.  A robust system will use more RAM and CPU.  What good is all of the extra hardware if it's not put to use?  And count on it, Windows 8 is definitely more stable than XP (though I have to say that the x64 build was exemplary).  Even Vista, once all of my video issues were dealt with, was QUITE stable.  Much more than XP.

Even all of the space taken up with the component store; I've come to realize that it's a necessary evil.  I have never had a BSOD on Windows 8 - ever.  Even on Vista x64 SP2, the only BSOD was when I was experimenting with display adapters.  After that was fixed - no more.

There's more to discuss there on your post, but I'll need to do it later.  Good points you've made.  :)

 

On XP I get that ram usages when I am rendering some moderate renders on Maya.

XP uses less ram no fight.

Both 8/8.1 crashed me so many time during rendering session . XP is more stable as it has no winSxS bloats.

Are you saying XPx64 less stable than 8x64? Then you are speaking absolute meaning less things . XP x64 is absolute solid when comes to stability. I remember how many time 7 crashed me during my gameplay because it cannot handle my card but XP x64 never did so.

Edited by Dibya

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JodyT why do you do this man?  I feel like this is a troll thread.   Most people around here are like experts, or at the very minimum half way competent reasonable people.  So like tell us your opinion is fine, but  I think this thread is a waste for you because  it's highly unlikely you are gonna change our opinions.  Most of our opinions are based on actual facts so.

Edited by Destro
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4 hours ago, Destro said:

JodyT why do you do this man?  I feel like this is a troll thread.   Most people around here are like experts, or at the very minimum half way competent reasonable people.  So like tell us your opinion is fine, but  I think this thread is a waste for you because  it's highly unlikely you are gonna change our opinions.  Most of our opinions are based on actual facts so.

After  so I gonna  complete  your words. 

JodyT  stop speaking  this meaning less things. XPX64 beats 8x64 like a lion roars up on a cat and make it loose it sense.  I fact it is im possible to beat memory routine of xp .  Same for xp x86.

XP is legend and nothing becomes legend for luck. Man say me why 8 never got too popular.  It has millions of draw backs.  I know you can fix it with  3rd party fixes but it is not perfect of its own.

Bad to say this it is true , without 3rd party fixes 8/8.1/10 are far inferior to even windows me. I know it is bitter to hear but remember ui changes the world of computing.  Why windows 95 gained popularity .same answer due to ui . XP has most effective ui ever designed if you consider work advantages. 

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4 hours ago, Destro said:

JodyT why do you do this man?  I feel like this is a troll thread.   Most people around here are like experts, or at the very minimum half way competent reasonable people.  So like tell us your opinion is fine, but  I think this thread is a waste for you because  it's highly unlikely you are gonna change our opinions.  Most of our opinions are based on actual facts so.

I'm not trolling.  You get to expouse your opinions, and so do I.  What you're saying is if I express an opinion opposite to yours, then that's trolling?  My lord, what you're describing then is pack mentality or club house mentality.  That's not fair.  You are free to state that Windows 8 and 10 are crap without hesitation, but I'm not allowed to say critical things about XP?  Why is that?  Especially in a thread set up to allow that,

Look just above what Dibya writes:

After  so I gonna  complete  your words.  JodyT  stop speaking  this meaning less things. XPX64 beats 8x64 like a lion roars up on a cat and make it loose it sense.  I fact it is im possible to beat memory routine of xp .  Same for xp x86.  XP is legend and nothing becomes legend for luck. Man say me why 8 never got too popular.  It has millions of draw backs.  I know you can fix it with  3rd party fixes but it is not perfect of its own.

Notice he says it as fact.  Now I don't agree with that (nor do many experts).  Besides, this thread was set aside for just this purpose.  We can either debate intelligently, or you can hurl comments like "Stop saying these things".  You mustn't choose to be personally offended.  All your doing is making me out to be a bad guy when I am only fairly expressing my opinion.

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51 minutes ago, Dibya said:

After  so I gonna  complete  your words. 

JodyT  stop speaking  this meaning less things. XPX64 beats 8x64 like a lion roars up on a cat and make it loose it sense.  I fact it is im possible to beat memory routine of xp .  Same for xp x86.

XP is legend and nothing becomes legend for luck. Man say me why 8 never got too popular.  It has millions of draw backs.  I know you can fix it with  3rd party fixes but it is not perfect of its own.

Bad to say this it is true , without 3rd party fixes 8/8.1/10 are far inferior to even windows me. I know it is bitter to hear but remember ui changes the world of computing.  Why windows 95 gained popularity .same answer due to ui . XP has most effective ui ever designed if you consider work advantages. 

Dibya, in all my comments to you I have made in this forum, although I usually disagree with you, I have been respectful.  But you're always responding to me in an enraged tone.  Why is that?  Are you saying that for mutually respectful conversation to exist, I MUST agree with you?  That's not fostering an equitable situation as I see it.

I've never disliked XP x64 (in fact I used to like Windows 2000 a lot better in fact), so I see the value that post OS incarnations held.  Now, I don't mind you crapping on Windows 10 - no problem there; we agree.  But when you state that Windows 8 and 8.1 are inferior to Windows Millennium Edition, I have to say that you're doing no differently than I might be with XP.  And you forget that XP was NOT perfect on its own either.  I have folders of utilities, reg hacks and what not for XP (both x86 and x64).  And I like many desktop additions to Vista/7/8x (like breadcrumbs for folder access - just as an example).  So not everyone thinks XP was the best desktop.  I did then, but not now.

Now did I not express what I did above in a friendly, mutually respectful manner?  I think I did.

:)

Have a good day Dibya

 

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Anyway I am no more replying.  Let community speak for me.

Sorry JodyT I honour you and I respect.  It's my style of speaking and my stupid atitude that make me wild sometime. Sorry for that !!

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2 minutes ago, Dibya said:

Anyway I am no more replying.  Let community speak for me.

Sorry JodyT I honour you and I respect.  It's my style of speaking and my stupid atitude that make me wild sometime. Sorry for that !!

Noooooo wait Dibya!  I don't want to muzzle you.  You have a right to speak, just as much as I do.  Your attitude isn't stupid.  I disagree with some of your thoughts, but you make lots of contributions here (New Moon for example and the XP layers).  I can't criticize that.  I think XP has had its day, but that doesn't mean your opinion doesn't have value.  I'm saying the same for me too.  That's all.  So don't feel your not allowed to talk.  We all can praise and criticize each other.  That constitutes open and fair conversation.

:)

 

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