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Quality of OSes


kdg

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Apology accepted, I think?

"fraud" = ????????

"insulting" - I don't think anyone made any intentional insults, we're all just confused.

"horrid to read replies too precisely" - I don't know what that means, so ...

"others in this thread have this same kind of problem" - I don't know what this means either.  What problem?

Please try again.

Cheers and Regards

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I think that if the ownership of this forum goes to a number of people that are interested in the subject, it can continue to exist. But I don't know what the periodical cost of it is.

I wanted to make this interesting and peaceful thread. But it is more like falling in a needle bush. (Though certainly not by all).

I think it is totally part of the subject of this thread: what if the ownership of this forum goes to a number of people that are interested in what this forum is about? Though I don't know what the cost of this is. And are there enough people here that are interested?

..But also how some things work. Possibly it can all be made more like how a hobby works. Like with help requests. How it works in different cases doesn't seem allocated right. A policy that works better for everyone.

Edited by kdg
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@kdg,

(1) Thank you for your change in attitude.  You are being less defensive and confrontational, which is appreciated.

(2) Again, no disrespect to you is meant in any way, however, you did not listen to what the moderator kindly asked you to do.  Please, please, please do not make multiple, consecutive posts like the three above.  To show that you understand what you have been asked to do, please edit the three posts above, NOW.  Simply copy the content of the second and third post above into the first one above, and delete the content of the second and third post, replacing them with <deleted>.  You will then end up with one post like this:

 

6 hours ago, kdg said:

I think that if the ownership of this forum goes to a number of people that are interested in the subject, it can continue to exist. But I don't know what the periodical cost of it is.

I wanted to make this interesting and peaceful thread. But it is more like falling in a needle bush. (Though certainly not by all).

I think it is totally part of the subject of this thread: what if the ownership of this forum goes to a number of people that are interested in what this forum is about? Though I don't know what the cost of this is. And are there enough people here that are interested?

..But also how some things work. Possibly it can all be made more like how a hobby works. Like with help requests. How it works in different cases doesn't seem allocated right. A policy that works better for everyone.

 

(if you want to clean up the post that would be fine as well), and two posts like this:

 

3 hours ago, kdg said:

<deleted>

 

IF you can do that, perhaps we can continue our conversation.

(3) It is much easier to have a conversation if we are better organized.  It makes it easier to understand.  The points you just raised have nothing to do with the subject of this thread - "Quality of OSes" - and should have been put in a different thread.

(4) With the exception of your "apology", you didn't address the points I raised in either my first post, nor my last.  If you want to have a conversation it requires give and take.  If you want us to respond to your questions and comments, you have to respond to ours.  Otherwise, you will quickly be ignored.  So let's try and conclude the original point of this thread before we move onto another.

So, first things first.  Before we go further, please do what I asked in (2) and (4) above.  I won't respond to this thread again until you do.  Go ahead, I'll wait. :)

Cheers and Regards

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@ bphlpt

Sorry, somehow I suddenly felt totally awful about this thread. Not that I think I did something wrong. Unless someone really points me to something and it is true. I think it is some types of replies and the fact that this forum is on the closing side. 

But it's a bit better now. 

I don't mean an OS that should be adapted to be more like another. I mean pressing charges to larger manufacturers by a lot of people. So that they don't run any risks. Because the software and hardware they produce is fraudulent. To give an example:  I run Windows XP. It uses far less hardware resources then later versions of Windows. While there are no logical reasons for it, other than this is someone else's financial plan. Besides the enormous amounts of money that already went to these manufacturers. 

So it is dishonorable and insulting to self to take any more offers they do. Of course unless this is wanted. It is dumb to be bound to ''not allowing self to do or not do something'' in some cases. Or to let this become a burden. The solution is simply an initiative that does something about it. In all freedom and happiness. 

Quote

QUOTE= sdfox7

If your comment - "This thread is about how this can become how it is." - is trying to start a discussion of how to modify a newer MS OS to be more like Win 2K/XP, that has also been, and continues to be, discussed in many other threads on the board.  On the other hand, if you are trying to start a discussion to influence MS to modify newer versions of their OS to be more like Win 2K/XP, well, (1) that result is just not going to happen, and (2) those efforts have already been tried, and are continuing, in the "deeper-impressions" threads, among others on the board.

Just modifying some operating system is not what I mean. Though it is not wise to invent a whole different foundation. Sooner: add some, like Linux, MacOS.

With pressing charges I mean money as a goal. And basically I would sooner think of others to make an operating system (or hardware). There are lots of people that clearly understand this much better. 

 

 

 

Edited by kdg
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@kdg, Thank you very much for editing your post and addressing my questions.  Both are very, very much appreciated.

Your English is also a bit better, so thank you for making an effort to express yourself clearly.

If I can paraphrase what I think you are saying above, it might be something like this:

------------------- This is totally my interpretation of what kdg said above - It might be completely wrong :) ------------------

I don't mean that a new OS should be forced to look exactly like an older one, but the new OS should at least work as well as the older one and not cause any damage or inconvenience to the user.  I use Windows XP and I don't understand why newer OS use far more resources to do the same functions.  The newer OS, such as Windows 10, also seem to have many problems, need constant updates, and sometimes even damage the user's data or system so that the computer won't even boot!  It also seems to force me to do some tasks in a different way than I want to do them, and prevents me from doing other things that I have successfully done in the past while using older OS. Why would anyone want to pay for such an OS?  Why would MS produce such an OS, unless they were just trying to get more money for themselves. If I'm going to get a new OS, or anything else, I want it to be better than what I already have.  To think that I would willingly put up with less is an insult to my intelligence. And why should I be forced to learn an entirely new UI (User Interface)?  If I'm going to do that, I might as well get a completely different OS such as Linux or MacOS. I wish that there was some way that enough people could get together and convince MS of the error of their ways.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did I get the general idea of what you were trying to say?

If so, there are many, many people here that believe the same way you do, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with you expressing your beliefs.  The only problem is that there are already many, many threads that have discussed, and are continuing to discuss, this point of view so that it is not necessary to start another thread about it.  It just clutters up the board and makes it more difficult for other to search and find information. Instead, please join one of the existing threads, such as 

or one of the other threads that jaclaz mentioned on the first page of this thread.  Your comments will be welcome there.

If I have once again misunderstood, I sincerely apologize.  Please try again to explain your comments.

Cheers and Regards

Edited by bphlpt
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I had a look at this thread: windows-10-deeper-impressions. 

Quote

I wish that there was some way that enough people could get together and convince MS of the error of their ways.

I don't  think it is this type of thing to convince. 

But what do you think? (or someone else) How to find a lot of people about it? 

 

 

 

Edited by kdg
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Was my interpretation at least close to what you were trying to say?  If so, then we're making progress. :)

2 hours ago, kdg said:

I don't  think it is this type of thing to convince. 

You're right.  At this point, I don't think anyone here is under any delusion that MS will listen to us, or anyone else, and make any of our suggested changes unless possibly if it benefits MS in some major way.  Any benefit to the user is completely inconsequential and besides the point.  Some folks thought that maybe with Windows 8 MS was putting out a really bad OS so that the next one would look better and MS could tout all kinds of "improvements", like bringing back the Start Menu, in order to boost sales.  But, in many of our opinions, the bloat, the loss of privacy, and the decline in effectiveness and efficiency continued with Windows 8.1 and again with Windows 10.  (See *NOTE below.)  The "Deeper Impressions" threads began with Windows 8 in January 2012.  If MS hasn't listened to us in over five-and-a-half years, what makes us believe they will listen now?  And it's not just those threads, there are several others on this board, and many other boards as well.  Those threads give us a chance to vent and point out MS's poor decisions to each other.  They are also useful for these reasons, among others:

  • It gives us something to laugh at when those decisions are especially dumb (in our opinion).
  • We're able to warn each other of things to avoid, and share methods we use to get around them.
  • It gives us a sense of community, belonging, and that we're not alone when things work, or don't work, a certain way and so don't meet our needs.

Thus they are useful, even if in a very tiny way.  Besides, it gives us a safe place to complain and generally disparage what we see as mistakes that MS is currently making.

If that sounds like what you wanted to talk about, then join one of those conversations and have fun.  I see no reason to continue the conversation here besides a quick note from you saying which thread you have chosen (just out of curiosity).

If you were under the (IMHO mistaken) opinion there was some place you could post that MS would listen to, and so therefore effect any change in the OS that would be beneficial to the user, I know of no such place where it has been proven that MS listened and responded in any positive way.  If anyone else knows of such a place I would love to hear about it.  If you really want to make those kinds of posts, in this thread or any other, you are welcome to do so, but I will not participate.  I view it as hopeless and a complete waste of time that is not worth any effort at all from me.  Others might disagree, and they are welcome to their opinion.

If I have, again, misunderstood you, then try again and we'll keep going. :)

Cheers and Regards

*NOTE  As I have mentioned in previous threads, I do realize there have been some very small improvements in certain areas of the newer versions of Windows and a very, very few useful new features added. But were they worth launching an entire new OS? That's one specific aspect that Windows 10 might have finally gotten right. Apparently there might not be any more "new" versions of Windows, just updates to the current one.  But the way they went about it with frequent, MASSIVE updates that don't seem to have been thoroughly tested, take a long time to download and install, and are forced upon the user whether they like it or not?  Yes, I understand the arguments that that's "safer" for the "average" user so they don't have to deal with all of the intricacies of which updates apply to them and which ones don't, etc, but I think that many of the members of this board are "above average", and in some cases "way above average", don't you?

Edited by bphlpt
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10 hours ago, bphlpt said:

*NOTE  As I have mentioned in previous threads, I do realize there have been some very small improvements in certain areas of the newer versions of Windows and a very, very few useful new features added. But were they worth launching an entire new OS? That's one specific aspect that Windows 10 might have finally gotten right. Apparently there might not be any more "new" versions of Windows, just updates to the current one.  But the way they went about it with frequent, MASSIVE updates that don't seem to have been thoroughly tested, take a long time to download and install, and are forced upon the user whether they like it or not?  Yes, I understand the arguments that that's "safer" for the "average" user so they don't have to deal with all of the intricacies of which updates apply to them and which ones don't, etc, but I think that many of the members of this board are "above average", and in some cases "way above average", don't you?

And now, suddenly we have a name to put the blame on. :w00t:

Jeffrey Snover

The guy actually does not repent at all and believes that he did (and is doing and will do) the "right thing", and additionally he is very proud of it.

https://www.heavybit.com/library/podcasts/to-be-continuous/ep-37-the-man-behind-windows-powershell/

mind you - as always happens - some of the things he did were good ones, but he claims to have done a cultural revolution with the continuous delivery model (which he probably did) as if a revolution is always a good thing (while sometimes it is, sometimes it is not).

It is IMHO instead the typical case of Chesterton's Fence:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Chesterton's_fence

What did strike me of the interview is the language used, the guy should be a senior tehnical executive in his late fifties/early sixties, yet he uses a language that seems to me more suited to a twenty something, maybe he has been contaminated by the younger folks :ph34r:.  Or maybe it is just  - as often happens - just me being over-sensitive :dubbio:

Some recent anecdata:

Yesterday I had to access a Windows 10 machine to check (quickly) a piece of info through an online service (that I won't name, though the stupid bastards should be shamed I have a contract with them and cannot afford to speak freely) that for some stupid (wrong, irrational, and perverse) "security" reasons I need to access from a single "authorized" machine (and only through Chrome or Opera, Firefox doesn't work on the specific service) and for *whatever reasons* the stupid machine running the stupid Windows 10 did not complete a (stupid) update, needed a forced reboot and hanged for 35 (that is thirtyfive minutes, or more than half an hour) to complete the update. With DOS and a 14,400 modem I would have retrieved that piece of info (that again I needed urgently) in at the very most 2 minutes, including the dialing and handshaking,

This is progress.

jaclaz

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  • 3 weeks later...

 @kdg

In my opinion, the OS of greatest quality from Microsoft was Windows 2000. Despite using it for many years, I do not know a single bug in it that I had encountered.

Windows XP was of much less quality, and I could name about a dozen of bugs and glitches in it, mostly related to visual inconsistensies due to the new theming engine.

I never used Vista, but Windows 7 turned out just awful with possibly 60+ bugs shouting at you, different fonts, strings and controls not fitting in dialogs, garbages, parasitic pixels, customizations not working as intended, ghost icons on the desktop, wrong translations and typos, etc etc. Plus it died after an update.

In 8.1 it seems, some bugs of Win7 were fixed, so I consider it being of higher quality (albeit a little).

Edited by Anixx
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2 hours ago, Dibya said:

Lol those theming bugs are fixed long back in sp1

What bugs fixed? I know for instance the following:

1. In XP the Start button gets depressed after the menu appears, in all other Windows versions first the button gets pushed, then menu appears. Very annoying bug.

2. The language panel makes taskbar thick, under Luna it is not visible (because it is thicker anyway under Luna), under Classic theme it looks awful. That's why I always used internat.exe from Windows 2000 under XP.

3. The logon screen still uses Luna even if user used classic theme. Fixing logon screen needed extensive editing of registry.

4. Console window had no theming under Luna.

There were some introduced bugs via updates as well... Different icon styles in different programs, and other glitches. Nothing like this in Win2000.

 

 

Edited by Anixx
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