Win98SE debug,normal boot freezing + Rloew patches (RAM/SATA/NVSIZE/AHCI) installation debugging, NVU 82 drivers

**rloew** · August 29, 2017

The clean installs seem to be OK except for the nVidia DLL Errors.
I have seen these intermittently, not so consistently as you have.
My Patch is for NVCORE.VXD so it is unrelated. These are separate issues.
You can try removing/renaming NVCPL.DLL to cut down on the Errors. You might get some warnings about the missing file.

I don't know much about the Intel 1000S MT. It's ID isn't in your SCANPCI dump.

You mentioned USP3 in your third setup. It removes the SATA Patch. This would cause the ESDI_506.PDR failure.

I noticed that NVCHECK said everything was OK. Did you flash the Video Card BIOS?
If so, you can unpatch the Driver. Leave the PCI Patch, if used. Keep the Interrupt Fix.
Since you bought my Patch, use the NVSIZE Program in the future. It gives a more detailed report than NVCHECK.

**ruthan** · August 29, 2017

3 hours ago, ruthan said:

Ok, i finally had some time to check few things and write about my AMD970 situation.

Little summary machine is otherwise stable and running fine in WinXP and Windows 7,
component are always the same.

HW:
1) FX 8 core cpu + Asus M5A97 R2.0 - AMD970 board, last bios.
2) MSI 7950GT 512 MB PCI-E (i have two of them, tested both), both a bit tested in X99 board no Nvidia issue as i remember but on other cards (dont have PCI-E compatible NIC or Soundcard)
3) Soundcard CMI8738 PCI - no problems with soundcard on this setup, tried
even different Soundcard in the process and no Nosound card or USB sound only.
4) Intel PCI 1 Gb/s NIC, detected as Intel 1000S MT desktop adapter (by other oses,
official Intel last driver)
5) PSU Seasonic 550W, same as for X99 testing no issues, i disconnected and connected all multiple times, its just on table testbench
6) PS2 Keyboard and mouse also used with X99 board and other without issues


Bellow is just 1 run of memtest picture without error, only 1 hour, but i ran whole
day and was the was and my issues are consitent doent matters if is right after cold boot or after of 10 hours of running, its not wary.

Storages are test, all ok.

I have 3 setups (below) and problems one 2 you them - cleans install are pretty
consistent, thring older migrated install has problem before i would able to
simulate, same issues.

A) Clean install, 40 GB HDD Seagate, WIn98 one and only partition on HDD.
Sata patch - running fine.
MEMpach and SPLIT installed, tested with or without System.in limiter to
1024 MB.
NIC installed before Nvidia drivers - running fine.
Nvidia card - installed last
Errors appeared.
NO HW conflicts.

No USB drivers for just to be sure.
NO USP3.

State: Explorer errors related to Nvidia.dlls

B) Clean install,Seagate 160 GB, testing 10 GB partion on start of disk, but for sure Terabyte
pack, ATA patche installed, LBA48 is ok.
Sata patch no issues.
Himem.exe limited to 1024MB.
NO HW conflicts.

No issue unless is NIC installed.
No USB drivers for just to be sure.
NO USP3.

State: Explorer errors related to Nvidia.dlls

C) Migrated install, installed without /p i option - i didnt know that 5+ years, but except USB audios issues (fixable) was tested on 7+ boards..
ago.
  Czech Windows 98 SE, all other installation are ENG.
SSD 120GB Intel 320 - first 10 GB for FAT32 Win98.
Sata patch - running fine
Patchmem (for to be sure limited to 1024 via System.ini), SPLIT8MB


State: Machine running fine, unless is 1Gb NIC added, after that i cant even normal
boot, bought RAM patch (SPLIT8MB) which should to fix it, but i never was able to
boot after NIC driver installatiom.

USP3 installed, USB stack removed to minimize issues, no HW conflicts..

With Intel 100S - slower NIC is running fine.

Error is System protection error and in boolog is error about ESDI_506 when i add Intel NIC, i
really dont know why, because otherwise Sata patch is running fine.

But Nvidia related errors are there even without NIC driver installed, errors are the same..

-----------
D,E,F - had some memory cards in Sata or IDE adapters install to, it was
all the same behavior.. nvidia dll erros, after all device drivers were installed..

I have Geforce 7800 256 MB on the way but it could take 2 weeks, after
i would be able to test same setup without patched Nvidia driver.

Bellow are Explorer errors related to Nvidia, are very often after 1 GB NIC drivers
are installed.

As i maybe wrote, i see 3 main reasons for my problems:
1) Unofficial Nvidia driver is really junk and not working on any computer,
it was recommended for me here so i dont believe in it too much.
2) Something in the Nvidia patch need to adjusted /added to work with Intel 1000S
MT Desktop (which could be in theory junk too, but i dont have any other on Nvidia
driver to collide with it)

  I hope that someone understand Windows on ASM registry level and could say something about it..

A) 40GB pictures, some picture are blurry but originals are readable..

B) 160 GB

Nvcheck:

Just after command.com run broken gui:

\

C) Bootlog hangs on ESDI after 1 GB NIC is driver is installed (Update added some new pictures here):

Edited August 29, 2017 by ruthan

**ruthan** · August 29, 2017

Quote

Did you install the RAM patch using the /M switch? This switch is specifically to address issues with Gigabit Ethernet cards and may help...

I thing that i did, but as i said would be really great to some better checking utility to has to be sure, that similar switches are ok, pciscan and nvcheck are great but i could be much better..

Holy grail would be something like early 90s games setup.exe, which would had auto detection and check functions and simple Y/N logic.. This checker could be even started in autoexec start scanpci parse its results + from parameters (lits of patches which should be installed) it could check installed patches and reinstall it is something wrong or ask in Y/N logic user if he want some optimal switch like /m or split8MB etc.. Its not hard coding if checks could run in true dos and you have knowledge how to recognize patched or unpatched file and what configuration patch need to run properly..

**rloew** · August 29, 2017

SCANPCI does not provide enough information to make these choices. It is not even in any of my Products. I posted it to help diagnose problems.

The Patches are normally installed long before NIC Drivers are installed, so the need for the /M Option cannot be determined in advance.
The Option also handles large Registries. The size of the Registry can grow arbitrarily depending what the User installs later.

Even I don't know when SPLIT8MB is needed. I thought it would no longer be needed when I developed the /M Option.

Those games had far fewer things to check for. I doubt many of them would work in newer systems. I have already encountered enough of them that cannot even handle more than 2GiB of RAM.
Also as I said before, they have the volume to cover the cost of testing on a large number of systems. Microsoft has 35 special cases, just in the ESDI_506.PDR Driver.

In any case, I don't see my other customers clamoring for your "holy grail". So it will stay just as unobtainable as THE holy grail.
Or are you offering to finance the time and equipment needed since you are the only customer?

Edited August 29, 2017 by rloew

**ruthan** · August 29, 2017

Some older stuff, i havent time for proper response..

General:

Quote

DISKBIOS/AHCIBIOS does not support CD Drives. You should not Install CD Drivers in DOS.

If im not wrong, it wasnt mentioned in the readme, retro machine without CD driver in DOS sucks and not all machine have 2 different controllers.. and other complication is that you buying AHCI patch for dont need to use IDE at first place (for cdrom you need to use controller in IDE mode). Any change to improvement in the future?

Amd970:

Quote

You already have a NIC in the AMD970. Adding another one may be causing problems.
I never promised my Patch would support two NICs. I knew it would work with the AMD970's Internal NIC.

Fro all testing i have disabled onboard NIC and Audio, because there are not working on Win98 AFAIK.

Conroe:

Quote

"Task Manager Replacement"? What did I tell you about complicating issues with undescribed modifications.

I trying to keep things clean on new systems, but Conroe original install is really tuned and i had lots of other candidates for freezing.. I shame that something like Task manager improvement, actually do such things.

Quote

VDD errors are associated with Graphics.

Geforce 6600 GT, official drivers are there, otherwise no issues, but when i on Login windows, press Cancel, i got final BSoD, so it has to something with graphics.

Quote

Remove the failing SATA Controller and see if it is redetected upon reboot.

Yeah is detected.

If it is, post the Output of:

Quote

SCANPCI All

0 0 0: 8086:2570 1849:2570 0600 00 02 e0000008 0 0 0
0 0 0 0

0 1 0: 8086:2571 0000:0000 0604 00 02 0 0 20010100 22a000f0
fe90fa90 dfe0bff0 0 Bridge

0 29 0: 8086:24d2 1849:24d0 0c03 00 02 0 0 0 0
e001 0 0 10a

0 29 1: 8086:24d4 1849:24d0 0c03 00 02 0 0 0 0
e401 0 0 20e

0 29 2: 8086:24d7 1849:24d0 0c03 00 02 0 0 0 0
e801 0 0 30f

0 29 3: 8086:24de 1849:24d0 0c03 00 02 0 0 0 0
ec01 0 0 10a

0 29 7: 8086:24dd 1849:24d0 0c03 20 02 febffc00 0 0 0
0 0 0 40b

0 30 0: 8086:244e 0000:0000 0604 00 c2 0 0 20020200 2280b0b0
fea0fea0 fff0 0 Bridge

0 31 0: 8086:24d0 0000:0000 0601 00 02 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0

0 31 1: 8086:24db 1849:24d0 0101 8a 02 1 1 1 1
fc01 0 0 100

0 31 2: 8086:24d1 1849:24d1 0101 8f 02 d401 d001 cc01 c801
c401 0 0 10f

0 31 3: 8086:24d3 1849:24d0 0c05 00 02 0 0 0 0
401 0 0 203

0 31 5: 8086:24d5 1849:0850 0401 00 02 d801 dc01 febff800 febff400
0 0 0 203

1 0 0: 10de:00f1 1458:3150 0300 00 a2 fd000000 c0000008 fc000000 0
0 0 fe9e0000 10a

2 4 0: 8086:107c 8086:1376 0200 00 05 feac0000 feaa0000 bc01 0
0 0 fea80000 107

Quote

Also display the Resources for the failing SATA Controller

There is message that Bios not assign IRQ to controller and in resource that is that resource are not used, but about details there is:

Edited August 29, 2017 by ruthan

**ruthan** · August 29, 2017

Quote

You can debug the Driver by reflashing your Video Card Driver as described in the Manual for the NVSIZE Patch. After a reboot, NVCHECK can be used to verify that you did this correctly.
Then you can use the Unpatched nVidia Driver. You would still need the PCI Patch and the Interrupt Fix if you were using them.

Nvcheck is everytime fine, without flashed bios i wasnt able to boot with installed driver in anything else than 640x480x16colors

Quote

There are a number of bugs in the nVidia Driver. My Patches fix the most serious ones.

Now we are doing somewhere.. Pleas give me a list for 82.69, im using 81.98 with my Geforce 6600GT im not aware any not specific game related issues.. Offtopic but interesting is that even on new Geforce 970 is command.com, working in safe mode but not on patched Geforce 7950GT - maybe it could be MSI thing i dont know, but in that case maybe i would be good idea use something like generic Nvidia bios is it exist or Bios from other vendor if is working..

**ruthan** · August 29, 2017

Quote

The clean installs seem to be OK except for the nVidia DLL Errors.
I have seen these intermittently, not so consistently as you have.

I usually go first one, right after boot to desktop.

Quote

My Patch is for NVCORE.VXD so it is unrelated. These are separate issues.
You can try removing/renaming NVCPL.DLL to cut down on the Errors. You might get some warnings about the missing file.

I really dont know what for are Nvidia dll for first place.. but it is something important, i have tried to dont use them in msconfig, i think that i had less issues, but i still had NVSVC service issues, no full fix, explorer was not really usable.. whole UOND 82.69 and patch for it is dead end and there should be big warning on main page in patch description, if would know it, wouldnt buy Geforce 79xx card or patch for it..

Quote

I don't know much about the Intel 1000S MT. It's ID isn't in your SCANPCI dump.

It has to be there, i too many scans i really dont remember what i scanned and when, there is new one:
I have found my NIC really cheaply on ebay, maybe you could invest some buck for to testing is cheaper that ship my adapter to your doors:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gigabit-Ethernet-LAN-Low-Profile-PCI-Network-Controller-Card-Module-10-100-1000/371576955920?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
It working seamessly with newer Windows are it is recognized as proper intel hw, so it should work with Win98 too.

0  0  0:  1002:5a14 1002:5a14 0600 00  02         0        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0       ff

 0  0  2:  1002:5a23 1002:5a23 0806 00  00         0        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0      100

 0  2  0:  1002:5a16 0000:0000 0604 00  00         0        0    10100 2000e1e1
                                            fe00fc00 dff1c001        0   Bridge

 0  5  0:  1002:5a19 0000:0000 0604 00  00         0        0    20200 200001f1
                                            fe30fe30    1fff1        0   Bridge

 0  7  0:  1002:5a1b 0000:0000 0604 00  00         0        0    30300 200001f1
                                            fe20fe20    1fff1        0   Bridge

 0 17  0:  1002:4391 1043:84dd 0106 01  40      f091     f081     f071     f061
                                                f051 fe407000        0      103

 0 18  0:  1002:4397 1002:4397 0c03 10  00  fe406000        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0      104

 0 18  2:  1002:4396 1002:4396 0c03 20  00  fe405000        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0      20e

 0 19  0:  1002:4397 1002:4397 0c03 10  00  fe404000        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0      10b

 0 19  2:  1002:4396 1002:4396 0c03 20  00  fe403000        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0      207

 0 20  0:  1002:4385 1002:4385 0c05 00  42         0        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0        0

 0 20  1:  1002:439c 1043:84de 0101 8f  40      f041     f031     f021     f011
                                                f001        0        0      20e

 0 20  3:  1002:439d 1002:439d 0601 00  40         0        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0        0

 0 20  4:  1002:4384 0000:0000 0604 01  40         0        0 40040400 2280d0d0
                                            fe10fe10     fff0        0   Bridge

 0 20  5:  1002:4399 1002:4399 0c03 10  00  fe402000        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0      304

 0 22  0:  1002:4397 1002:4397 0c03 10  00  fe401000        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0      10f

 0 22  2:  1002:4396 1002:4396 0c03 20  00  fe400000        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0      20b

 0 24  0:  1022:1600 0000:0000 0600 00  00         0        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0        0

 0 24  1:  1022:1601 0000:0000 0600 00  00         0        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0        0

 0 24  2:  1022:1602 0000:0000 0600 00  00         0        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0        0

 0 24  3:  1022:1603 0000:0000 0600 00  00         0        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0        0

 0 24  4:  1022:1604 0000:0000 0600 00  00         0        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0        0

 0 24  5:  1022:1605 0000:0000 0600 00  00         0        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0        0

 1  0  0:  10de:0295 1462:0663 0300 00  a1  fd000000 c000000c        0 fc000004
                                                   0     e001 fe000000      10a

 2  0  0:  1b21:1142 1043:85bf 0c03 30  00  fe300004        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0      10f

 3  0  0:  1b21:1142 1043:85bf 0c03 30  00  fe200004        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0      104

 4  5  0:  13f6:0111 13f6:0111 0401 00  10      d001        0        0        0
                                                   0        0        0      10b

 4  6  0:  8086:100e 8086:002e 0200 00  02  fe140000 fe120000     d101        0
                                                   0        0 fe100000      107

Quote

You mentioned USP3 in your third setup. It removes the SATA Patch. This would cause the ESDI_506.PDR failure.

Is not ESDI_506 refreshed after NIC installation, it is not issue, Sata driver is working with USP3 for long time.

Quote

I noticed that NVCHECK said everything was OK. Did you flash the Video Card BIOS?
If so, you can unpatch the Driver. Leave the PCI Patch, if used. Keep the Interrupt Fix.
Since you bought my Patch, use the NVSIZE Program in the future. It gives a more detailed report than NVCHECK

Here i lost the thread, i would need more explanation.
Yes bioses are patche, NVcheck is ok on both card.
I ment that nvcore.vxd is needed even is bios patched is not true, or what sense make that test?
I dont know that is exactly Interrupt fix, i never used anything else than nvcore and pci patch.

Edited August 29, 2017 by ruthan

**ruthan** · August 30, 2017

Just other info to the puzzle, i didnt too much testing, but Geforce 7950GT and same problematic Intel Gb NIC on Z97 Gigabyte board (info about board could be found in other thread, im a bit in hurry), are running fine, only difference is no Sata patch, because im using PCI-E to IDE Micron controller + PCI USB NEC controller (because onboard original is not running), i dont know if matters.

Clean install, HimemX, no other patches except NVSIZE. No USP3, nUSB 3.6

Never saw Nvidia dll problem on this machine and its running few hours.. I would have tens issues for same time on AMD970 machine.

So my issues could be AMD970 related and patches working at least somewhere..

Only problem with this setup are mouse slowdowns, which are probably related to Micron PCI-E controller and IDE to SD card adapter.. there is not disc in Device manager to setup DMA, it probably running without it. I had no such issues with other PCI IDE adapter which i used before, but i had to clean 1 PCI slot for NIC.
I would like to use proper storage, but all my spared device are already used and so im using Memory cards, i though that 5 spared SDD/HDDs would be enough..

Edited August 30, 2017 by ruthan

**rloew** · August 30, 2017

AHCIBIOS and CDs: I checked further. AHCIBIOS should not affect CD Drivers. I don't use DOS Drivers for CDs only Windows. In DOS you would not use AHCIBIOS. I believe there is an AHCI CDROM Driver.

Conroe SATA: The SATA Controller conflicts with what appears to be a nonexistent Secondary PATA Controller. I assume you have a single PATA Connector on the Motherboard. Change the setting for the "Standard Dual PCI IDE Controller" to "Primary Only".

nVidia Bugs: I don't have a list. Besides the ones you have seen there is a problem with uninstallation leaving behind stuff.
Tinkering with the nVidia BIOS can brick the Card.
Many people have used 82.69 and my Patch successfully with the 7950GT. I have. Why would I put a warning not to use it?

1000 MT: It did appear in this SCANPCI dump. It is the last entry. I think you clipped it off in your previous dump.
Why would I want to spend money for an old NIC Card when I have plenty of newer ones. My Patches aren't even about NIC Cards. One Patch happens to help with a problem caused by NIC Cards.
Installing a NIC Card does not refresh ESDI_506.PDR. U98SESP3 replaces it. My Patch modifies it.

nVidia BIOS Patch: If you flash the nVidia BIOS, you do not need to use the main NVCORE Patch. It does not hurt to use both. I suggested that you unpatch NVCORE as a test since you claimed the Patch was causing problems. The PCI Patch may still be needed. I wouldn't worry about the Interrupt Fix for now since you obviously aren't using it now.

AMD970: Motherboard idiosyncrasies are always possible. I have seen plenty of them.

DMA: There should be a Disk Device for any SD Card or other Disk that is actually present. An SD card probably would be slower even with DMA enabled. You could try setting them from Safe Mode.

**ruthan** · August 30, 2017

Thanks for reply i will address it later, i only want to mention that im still waiting on PCIE-PCI adpater for X99 board it could be issues less to, Asus AMD970 could be only problematic setup.

I cant really test all on my 2 other production Z97 machines, unless i will ready for migration Unraid (i plan to use both standard multiboot physical installation + Unraid boot (from your pespective Unraid just means more dedicated storage devices, which could / should be ignored by normal OSes - XFS filesystem or other strange Linux FS, one partition only) - there just would be other Grub item for Unraid) and for that i need working Dual (Triple) GPU stunt, i hoped that i will test in on AMD970 board, but there are problem, maybe X99 would be better.. Plan is to have in 1 machine which best GPU for W98, second for XP and third for modern Windows, Linux, MacOS etc.

I there would be problem from you patches perspective i coul be dedicate PCI-E controller for Unraid and just disable it in Win98+, only problem would be slots and space, 3 big GPUs covers 2 or 3 slots..

There is also some old HP z400 Xeon machine on the way, there is could be tested, it will arrive probably next week.

I also seems to would have 5,6 more old small proper IDE/SATA HDD from my friend, but im not sure i today or tomorrow, or and end of next week, all is in the process.

Edited August 30, 2017 by ruthan

**ruthan** · September 2, 2017

So quick news from RuThaNs lair..

I have tested AMD970 with second Intel 1000S GT controller, which is running fine in Conroe machine again i dont boot.. these Intel looks problematic, on other Z97 GB board, were is 1000S CT working, is not working for change Intel 100S NIC.

Are there other PCI gigabite Windows 98 compatible NICs?

Geforce 7900 with 256MB + 6 HDDs  arrived, with patched or unpatched 82.69 still same issues, so problem is not in patch, its worse whole Unofficial driver is not somehow compatible with my board.

  Problems:
Dll errors, sometimes even right after right click anywhere means error, copy-paste from keyboard the same..
  Command.com in safe mode blackscreen
Dos games from Windows - blackscreen, probably cant set right videomodes..

Its not good news at all, because i see only 2 possibility:
1) Rloew would use its magic and will debug it and make other patch for not working UONV 82.69 and dont mind pay for it..
2) Or we will say that my Asus AMD970 is dead end for Geforce 7 usage.. It even in that case would be nice to find source of problem, to know why is not compatible and which MB should be avoided.

  It reminds me, which AMD970 are actually known as working with Geforce 7?
Because it looks are best solution for me would be simply change the Mainboard.

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Only problem with this setup are mouse slowdowns, which are probably related to Micron PCI-E controller and IDE to SD card adapter.. there is not disc in Device manager to setup DMA, it probably running without it. I had no such issues with other PCI IDE adapter which i used before, but i had to clean 1 PCI slot for NIC.
I would like to use proper storage, but all my spared device are already used and so im using Memory cards, i though that 5 spared SDD/HDDs would be enough..

Proper HDD on internal Sata port fixed it, i had not enough time to test of it was micron PCI-E controller issue or only incompatibility of Micron with my EDI to SD card adapter, i only tested that with Medley PCI IDE controller + SD card adapter everything was fine.

For now from my point of view are Z97 board better Win98 solution than AMD970, only USB is not working, otherwise is everything same or better.

Edited September 2, 2017 by ruthan

**rloew** · September 2, 2017

It would be hard for me to work my "Magic" when I cannot see a problem on any of my Machines.

My M5A97 and my Sli Krait are both AMD970 Motherboards using nVidia 7xxx Video Cards.

**Tommy** · September 2, 2017

@ruthan Can you please try and edit your posts instead of double and triple posting in a row? Unless a day or so has passed without new replies, it would be appreciated if you would just edit your original post. Otherwise, if it's been a day or two without any new replies, then go ahead and make another post with new information. Thanks!

**ruthan** · September 2, 2017

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Can you please try and edit your posts instead of double and triple posting in a row? Unless a day or so has passed without new replies, it would be appreciated if you would just edit your original post. Otherwise, if it's been a day or two without any new replies, then go ahead and make another post with new information. Thanks!

I had right opposite request to dont edit too much, its 1 to 1, so i will post how i feel it, unless i will have got ban or something like that.

**dencorso** · September 2, 2017

We do. Read the Rules.

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Win98SE debug,normal boot freezing + Rloew patches (RAM/SATA/NVSIZE/AHCI) installation debugging, NVU 82 drivers

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