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Jody Thornton

Server 2008 Updates on Windows Vista

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On 8/15/2018 at 1:10 PM, JohnRichardTLH said:

I had to pull back on the Vista/Server2008 Updates the other day.  I use a program called Chief Architect, which had been working fine.  I noticed when rendering 3D models, instead of taking 5 seconds, it was taking 50 seconds!  I checked various other issues (video drivers, ram, background programs/services), but couldn't isolate it to anything.  I restored to an April 2018 Backup (which did have the March 2018 patches/updates) and it went back to 5 seconds.  So I suspect "something" happened in the April/May/June Patches (had not yet done July/August).  If I have some spare time, maybe I'll read the various Patches and see if any of them could have impacted Video Card/3D Rendering.

We will never know how many programs can be broken by Server 2008 patches because very few people are actually running "FrankenVista." The only other report I've seen is that Sandboxie is incompatible with the Meltdown and Spectre patches according to @Ruan (https://forums.sandboxie.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=25590). If you are keeping a Vista PC for the sake of legacy software and have Windows 8 etc. on another machine, then this entire exercise seems like a waste of time at best.

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On 8/15/2018 at 1:38 PM, Jody Thornton said:

Now that's concerning. I thought that perhaps (anecdotally) performance felt a tad slower. Perhaps I should try uninstalling the updates after March, just to see.

If you are still using Security Essentials 4.4, you might be experiencing the same elevated CPU usage while browsing that Mathwiz has complained about in the Windows XP forum (evidently the definition updates are getting larger).

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2 hours ago, Vistapocalypse said:

If you are still using Security Essentials 4.4, you might be experiencing the same elevated CPU usage while browsing that Mathwiz has complained about in the Windows XP forum (evidently the definition updates are getting larger).

I'll try disabling MSE and see if there's a substantial improvement.

As for "FrankenVista", the same approach towards Windows 8 seemed to provide a performance improvement for quite awhile.  Then as of this year, my fortunes seems o dwindle.  So I will update to a Decemvber 2017 baseline, and stop.

 

 

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@Vistapocalypse, so the CPU usage is rising (I only need her the fans running, albeit quietly, when I open the browser and it loads nine tabs).  When I turn off Real Time Protection in MSE, the system is quiet when I load the tabs.  However, there is no apparent slow down evident.

 

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Hmmm... for some reason, I had not been receiving email alerts for replies to this post :huh: (not in spam either).  But I did receive @Jody Thornton's reply this morning, so I'm back :)

 

@Jody Thornton  Before reverting to a full-image backup, I tried the following steps:

  1. manually uninstall each month of patches (June, then May, then April), but yielded the same (poor) 3D rendering results.  I'm sorry... probably should have mentioned that.
  2. uninstalled (some of) the .net patches too (but can't recall which ones).  
  3. disabling, and even Uninstalling MSSE.
  4. finally restored an April Backup (which included all of the March Patches) and it fixed the problem.   

@Vistapocalypse Ha... "FrankenVista"... no doubt a rare breed that dabble in such realms :D  Surely this is an exercise in futility, but even Dr. Frankenstein loved his monster in the end.

I read the thread you pointed to, which refers to the updates causing problems KB4089229  & KB4090450. Those are in my restored backup image, so not likely the cause here, but thanks for the suggestion.

I'm very conservative in terms of installing new software, so there's not a lot of other variables.  Although I did install Samsung SmartSwitch.  I'll make a fresh backup, then install SmartSwitch, and report back (probably within a few weeks).  Who knows, some dramatic,  dark, rainy night, with thunder & lightening in the background,  I'll install the patches in "blocks" (April... test... May... test... June... test) and see if I can isolate the issue so that FrankenVista can continue to live!

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Well the thing is @JohnRichardTLH, I want to be able to install updates down the road.  I mean, why wouldn't I want to patch vulnerabilities that are known, right?  I will be switching to Windows 8 in September, and while I am planning to adhere to @NoelC's December 2017 recommendations, I don't want to install NO UPDATES from now until October 2023.  There's a lot that could happen then.

 

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I understand/agree @Jody Thornton!  I just had to do "something" to get my 3D rendering moving along :)  I will be sure to report back when I get around to isolating the issue.

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I completely hear you @JohnRichardTLH.  I did remove MSE.  The CPU usage is definitely lower.  The system is a tad more "responsive".  I guess this is how it shall stay.

I really appreciate hearing what you have to say.

 

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Wow!  I turned on my PC, and I'm telling you seriously, Vista booted about 30% faster.  I have never had Vista boot, or had applications load this quickly (and this is an old Netburst dual-Xeon with DDR2 memory)

Obviously, MSE and 2018 updates were slowing things down.

 

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The interesting thing about Dec 2017, of course, is that the updates that month were the last ones unaffected by Spectre, Meltdown, and the other cpu problems that Microsoft continues to deal with.    Another interesting thing is that I'd have guessed before this that Vista and Server 2008 wouldn't be much affected -- I'd have thought they were of a vintage that relied on much simpler hardware.  I've been lucky it seems; I put an AMD FX-8370 chip in my main machine, and it seems to be old enough and different enough from Intel's chips that I've escaped most of the carnage, while humming along at 4.1 GHz on 8 threads.  The flip side of things, it's probably going to be another 2 or 3 years before the major chip firms come up with designs that to solve those woes, which means I've got to wait patiently as my PC's status  slides from "almost modern" to "obsolescent" to "landfill," 

I've been watching my Vista (and my Win 7 and Win 10) system get increasingly overheated over the last year or so, but I hadn't thought about MS antivirus as a possible factor.   Though, oddly enough, I had noticed the problem seemed to be worse with Win 7 (running MS Security Essential for AV) than on Vista, where I've been using BitDefender.  I've been thinking it was internet-related, since opening up more than window seems to make the heating worse and since some websites seem to be especially prone to troublemaking.  Sample of what I mean, I go the RealClearPolitics website with my CPU at 50 degrees C; I open up a couple of tabs to read some stories, and within 10 minutes my system is up to the mid 60s, and I'm not paying attention a few minutes later the cpu is at 72 degrees.  And then the system shuts down.   If I catch the problem before then, I can switch to a single window at say OutsideTheBeltway.Com and ten minutes probably brings the heating from 70 degrees down to 60.   Lots of ads at RCP of course, and hundreds of links ... OTB has just a couple dozen links and only a smidgin of ads. 

It's a problem, and it's been getting worse.   I used to have a Cooler Master in my previous system, but I was always a little antsy about something that  involved changing the motherboard, so I didn't want  to do that with this system.  Fortunately AMD has finally started to sell their Wraith coolers as standalone components, and I bought one just recently to see how it fared compared with the cooler that came as stock on my cpu.    And my Lord, it's a wonder!   Right now, my cpu is running 36 degrees, and I've had this machine on for the last 12 hours, so that's near enough of a miracle to restore long forgotten faith.

Anyhow, it's not just you.  PC performance has been deteriorating rapidly enough lately that you can practically see the changes "by eyeball" rather than with expensive test equipment,  And this is Not A Good Thing.

 

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I was going to look at Comodo AV Free (I tried it once with XP x64 and it ran well - but that was November 2011).

I'll look up BitDefender.  I wonder if manual scans with Malwarebytes v1.75 are still good enough. The application still accepts current definitions.

:)

 

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Time to make things right and update the repository for July and August's updates.

JULY 2018 SECURITY - ("7 - July 2018" Folder)
KB4291391 - Description of the security update for the Windows DNSAPI denial of service vulnerability
http://support.microsoft.com/help/4291391
http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/search.aspx?q=4291391

KB4293756 - Description of the security update for the Windows FTP Server denial of service vulnerability
http://support.microsoft.com/help/4293756
http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/search.aspx?q=4293756

KB4295656 - Description of the security update for the Windows kernel elevation of privilege vulnerability
http://support.microsoft.com/help/4295656
http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/search.aspx?q=4295656

KB4339291 - Description of the security update for the security feature bypass vulnerability
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4339291
http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/search.aspx?q=4339291

KB4339503 - Description of the security update for the Windows elevation of privilege vulnerability
http://support.microsoft.com/help/4339503
http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/search.aspx?q=4339503

KB4339854 - Description of the security update for the Win32k elevation of privilege vulnerability
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4339854
http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/search.aspx?q=4339854

KB4340583 - Description of the security update for the Windows denial of service vulnerability (Spectre for Intel and AMD fix!)
http://support.microsoft.com/help/4340583
http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/search.aspx?q=4340583


AUGUST 2018 SECURITY - ("8 - August 2018" Folder)
KB4338380 - Description of the security update for the Windows kernel information disclosure vulnerability
http://support.microsoft.com/help/4338380
http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/search.aspx?q=4338380

KB4340937 - Description of the security update for the remote code execution vulnerability
http://support.microsoft.com/help/4340937
http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/search.aspx?q=4340937

KB4340939 - Description of the security update for the remote code execution vulnerability
http://support.microsoft.com/help/4340939
http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/search.aspx?q=4340939

KB4341832 - Description of the security update for the L1TF variant vulnerabilities (Meltdown and Spectre fix!)
http://support.microsoft.com/help/4341832
http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/search.aspx?q=4341832

KB4343674 - Description of the security update for the GDI vulnerabilities
http://support.microsoft.com/help/4343674
http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/search.aspx?q=4343674

KB4344104 - Description of the security update for the font library vulnerability
http://support.microsoft.com/help/4344104
http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/search.aspx?q=4344104


NON-SECURITY - ("Extras" Folder)
KB4339284 - Time zone and DST changes in Windows for North Korea
https://support.microsoft.com/help/4339284
http://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/search.aspx?q=4339284


.NET FRAMEWORK SECURITY AND QUALITY ROLLUP
https://support.microsoft.com/help/4345593
http://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=4345593

KB4344151 - .NET Framework 2.0 SP2 (".NET 2.0 SP2\Security and Quality Rollup")
https://support.microsoft.com/help/4344151

KB4344149 - .NET Framework 4.5.2 (".NET 4.5.2\Security and Quality Rollup")
https://support.microsoft.com/help/4344149

KB4344146 - .NET Framework 4.6/4.6.1 (".NET 4.6-4.6.1\Security and Quality Rollup")
https://support.microsoft.com/help/4344146

 

JULY 2018 .NET SECURITY ONLY
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4340007
http://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=4340007

KB4344176 - .NET Framework 2.0 SP2 (".NET 2.0 SP2\Security Only")
https://support.microsoft.com/help/4338611

KB4344173 - .NET Framework 4.5.2 (".NET 4.5.2\Security Only")
https://support.microsoft.com/help/4338602

KB4344167 - .NET Framework 4.6/4.6.1 (".NET 4.6-4.6.1\Security Only")
https://support.microsoft.com/help/4338606

AUGUST 2018 .NET SECURITY ONLY
https://support.microsoft.com/help/4345682
http://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=4345682

KB4344176 - .NET Framework 2.0 SP2 (".NET 2.0 SP2\Security Only")
https://support.microsoft.com/help/4344176

KB4344173 - .NET Framework 4.5.2 (".NET 4.5.2\Security Only")
https://support.microsoft.com/help/4344173

KB4344167 - .NET Framework 4.6/4.6.1 (".NET 4.6-4.6.1\Security Only")
https://support.microsoft.com/help/4344167


INTERNET EXPLORER - (Root folder of x86 or x64)
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4343205
http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/search.aspx?q=KB4343205

I wonder who needs that timezone update for North Korea:whistle:
The Spectre and Meltdown related updates are marked as such in the repository so you can avoid them if you want.

 

Good patching!
https://mega.nz/#F!txxRyLzC!1vBMGzMHiL864f3bl1Rj1w

Edited by greenhillmaniac
Added missing KB and fixed some info
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Bravo @greenhillmaniac !!!

I will make an Image Backup, then Before/After testing with each month of updates beginning with May 2018.

Not sure when I'll get around to it though :(

It will be interesting to see if any one single patch created my 3D rendering problem.

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On 8/20/2018 at 1:48 AM, mike_shupp said:

I've been watching my Vista (and my Win 7 and Win 10) system get increasingly overheated over the last year or so, but I hadn't thought about MS antivirus as a possible factor.  Though, oddly enough, I had noticed the problem seemed to be worse with Win 7 (running MS Security Essential for AV) than on Vista, where I've been using BitDefender.

Have you noticed that MSE client development has completely ceased? I assume you are using 4.10.209.0, which is the same 2016 version that you and I both were using on Vista when Microsoft's time bomb ticked us off (so there has never yet been a version that could not be installed on Vista: they just won't work anymore). Meanwhile, Windows Defender for Win 10 has reached version 4.13, which does not bode well for Win 7 users (but is perhaps OT here: sorry Jody).

 

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