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bizzybody

Port WINE to Windows?

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We've seen things like the KernelEX project to allow using software for newer versions of Windows on older versions. How about doing something similar for XP, Vista, and pretty soon 7?

The major application would be to use up to date web browsers since Chrome has abandoned XP and Vista and will soon drop 7 support. Firefox is going to kick Vista to the curb by the end of 2017. Even alternative browsers like Opera and Slimjet have sent Vista and previous adrift.

If WINE supports the latest browsers, could WINE be ported to XP, Vista, and 7 when all the browsers drop 7 support?

Proposed name for the Port Wine Project? Ripple. ;) Or something else off this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavored_fortified_wines

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That's intended to be a total replacement for Windows. It's not complete. Adding "missing" functions to Vista would enable computers unable to run Windows 7 to be able to run the latest web browsers and other software.

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Hi , begin your journey here

https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/16541/Create-your-Proxy-DLLs-automatically

http://sourcesecure.net/2011/03/dll-redirection-tutorial/

Enhance the code with Wine or alternative for proxy .

if from above tutorial you got idea see this one

http://blog.livedoor.jp/blackwingcat/archives/1503961.html

grab it source is included . Engine is extremely stable and patch less .

Jumper is good in programing , ask him all about

just dropping my words .

Hope it will help

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I believe instead of porting WINE to Windows, someone could just create an "Extended Kernel" for Vista, just like Blackwingcat has done for Windows 2000. However, that's obviously easier said than done, and due to Vista's minuscule usage and poor reputation among most users, I don't see anyone doing it any time soon (and this is coming from a long time former Vista user & advocate...).
However, the same can be said about Windows Millennium Edition (arguably to a higher extent, I might add), and it received projects such as KernelEx and I believe two unofficial service packs, so it isn't impossible that Vista will get the same love, but if you ask me, it's highly improbable (at least for the time being).

As for Windows 7, I can see third party developers continuing to support it for many more years to come (much like they did with Windows XP until very recently) because Windows 7 has something that Vista has never had: a large install/fan base and an almost 100% positive reputation among users, in contrast to Vista. I doubt it will need any third party "fixing" for a while and when it does, I can see at least one person stepping up to do the deed. However, Microsoft's efforts to kill it off are already starting to take a toll, as Intel's new Kaby Lake and AMD's new RyZen platforms don't and won't be supporting Windows 7, from what I've heard. That could change if sales are dramatically affected by this, though, since Windows 7 is still in high demand. Just my two cents.

Edited by 2008WindowsVista

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If Microsoft doesn't change their direction, I have a feeling either people will be forced so heavily onto their new platforms whether they like it or not, or people will switch to entirely different OSs. The reason 7 is still so high in popularity is because many people don't care for 8 or 10. Windows 7 as far as I'm concerned is the last "classic" version of Windows whereas 8 and 10 are hybrids and not everyone is onboard with that. It's clear though that Microsoft is piggy-backing on the success of Apple's Application Store (I refuse to use that shortened "word" =/), but whether it's working out as planned, I don't really know.

I guess my question here though is what is really the difference between Wine and KernelEx? I get the vibe that KernelEx for Windows 98/Me is more like Wine (?) that it doesn't actually replace system files whereas KernelEx for Windows 2000 does and therefor modifying the entire hard kernel layer rather than playing off other file dependencies.

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6 hours ago, 2008WindowsVista said:

I believe instead of porting WINE to Windows, someone could just create an "Extended Kernel" for Vista, just like Blackwingcat has done for Windows 2000. However, that's obviously easier said than done, and due to Vista's minuscule usage and poor reputation among most users, I don't see anyone doing it any time soon (and this is coming from a long time former Vista user & advocate...).
However, the same can be said about Windows Millennium Edition (arguably to a higher extent, I might add), and it received projects such as KernelEx and I believe two unofficial service packs, so it isn't impossible that Vista won't get the same love, but if you ask me, it's highly improbable (at least for the time being).

As for Windows 7, I can see third party developers continuing to support it for many more years to come (much like they did with Windows XP until very recently) because Windows 7 has something that Vista has never had: a large fan base and an almost 100% positive reputation among users, in contrast to Vista. I doubt it will need any third party "fixing" for a while and when it does, I can see at least one person stepping up to do the deed. However, Microsoft's efforts to kill it off are already starting to take a toll, as Intel's new Kaby Lake and AMD's new RyZen platforms don't and won't be supporting Windows 7, from what I've heard. That could change if sales are dramatically affected by this, though, since Windows 7 is still in high demand. Just my two cents.

Extending kernel require lots of time. Many problems like instability may arise certain old programs may misbehave .

Wrapper is best for go in case of vista xp where much expansion  is not needed . I am doing extendedxp for one reason to get some newer vistis features work like dx11 . Expanding kernel need knowledge in pe fileformat . Certain reverse engineering  skills . Blackwingcat wildbill are far more than advance in engineering.  Wildbill written his own kernel32 in c for 2k from scratch I can never imagine in my dreams.

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Where back-porting certain Windows 7 functions and features to Vista would be useful is for older computers, especially laptops, that came with Vista and have non-upgradeable parts for which there are no drivers for newer versions, or XP. There are many laptops which shipped with Vista that top out at 2 or 3 gigs RAM.

Then there are peripherals like all those ViXS PureTV PCie x1 TV tuner cards that came in HP and Compaq desktops. they only work with Vista. You can find drivers that will install OK in 7, 8 and 10, but something's not quite right, TV programs cannot 'see' the tuner. HP and Compaq never shipped any 3rd party TV software with those systems, they relied on Media Center to use with the PureTV card. Might be that even on Vista, Media Center is the only software that works with those. I tried the hack to install the last version of Media Center onto 10. Still couldn't find the PureTV card.

A Vista upgrade without upgrading would enable newer software to work on those computers while keeping the use of the digital TV card. There's quite a lot of computers such a project could keep from going for scrap, and enable them to get back on the net by enabling up to date browsers and security programs to run on Vista.

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6 hours ago, Dibya said:

Extending kernel require lots of time. Many problems like instability may arise certain old programs may misbehave .

Wrapper is best for go in case of vista xp where much expansion  is not needed . I am doing extendedxp for one reason to get some newer vistis features work like dx11 . Expanding kernel need knowledge in pe fileformat . Certain reverse engineering  skills . Blackwingcat wildbill are far more than advance in engineering.  Wildbill written his own kernel32 in c for 2k from scratch I can never imagine in my dreams.

I'm sure it's very difficult, and perhaps a "KernelEx" type of project would be a better solution for Windows Vista. But even then, I don't expect anyone to take on that project any time soon. 

7 hours ago, Tommy said:

If Microsoft doesn't change their direction, I have a feeling either people will be forced so heavily onto their new platforms whether they like it or not, or people will switch to entirely different OSs. The reason 7 is still so high in popularity is because many people don't care for 8 or 10. Windows 7 as far as I'm concerned is the last "classic" version of Windows whereas 8 and 10 are hybrids and not everyone is onboard with that. It's clear though that Microsoft is piggy-backing on the success of Apple's Application Store (I refuse to use that shortened "word" =/), but whether it's working out as planned, I don't really know.

I guess my question here though is what is really the difference between Wine and KernelEx? I get the vibe that KernelEx for Windows 98/Me is more like Wine (?) that it doesn't actually replace system files whereas KernelEx for Windows 2000 does and therefor modifying the entire hard kernel layer rather than playing off other file dependencies.

Agreed about Microsoft needing to change their direction. However, I'm using Windows 8.1 (albeit heavily customized to look like Vista), and I'm quite satisfied with it. Just how long 7/8.1 will last under Microsoft's incessant pushing of Windows 10 remains to be seen, though.

I will never EVER use Windows 10, and will do whatever it takes to avoid it, even if that means switching platforms altogether (I'd probably consider macOS due to the superior third party support compared to Linux). Microsoft has completely dumbed down the OS to the point where it's basically a toy instead of a tool, and the whole OS is designed under the "mommy Microsoft knows best" philosophy, and with things like the completely broken updating system, it definitely shows. 

As for Wine vs KernelEx, I don't really know... Perhaps a "KernelEx" kind of project would be an easier and overall better solution for Vista, since (as Dibya pointed out) Windows Vista doesn't really need that much work to be compatible with 7+ software, just as long as it would be stable and able to run most new software without too many issues.

It would also be quite nice if someone could figure out why Vista misbehaves so badly when trying to run it on Intel's Haswell platform, where the OS randomly fails to boot up and random services fail to start. This has been proven on several different Haswell/Broadwell machines of mine, so I know it isn't exclusive to any one machine. AFAIK, Windows 2000 and XP have been used (by fellow MSFN members) on the Haswell platform before without any issue like this, so I'm completely stumped as to why only Windows Vista suffers from it... It's basically the only thing at this point that prevents me from continuing to use the OS as my main anymore. Changing BIOS settings does nothing to fix the issue and even installing Intel's own chipset drivers that they released for Vista also doesn't help, so something else is really, really wrong... 

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I have been waiting forever and praying that someone will mod some newer AMD driver that we can use on Vista, I see a modified 15.6 but we need something newer, I would love to use Vista right now if I had a sensible more up to date AMD driver for my HD7770 gpu :unsure:

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3 hours ago, jeff69dini said:

I have been waiting forever and praying that someone will mod some newer AMD driver that we can use on Vista, I see a modified 15.6 but we need something newer, I would love to use Vista right now if I had a sensible more up to date AMD driver for my HD7770 gpu :unsure:

Atleast you can still use your GPU with Vista... Anything newer than the RX 2XX series won't work properly (such as my card) :(

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55 minutes ago, greenhillmaniac said:

Atleast you can still use your GPU with Vista... Anything newer than the RX 2XX series won't work properly (such as my card) :(

o ic, did not know that, well I was hoping for a "better" driver for gaming to be honest ;)

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For all things DirectX 11+, you can try utilizing WineD3D, which translates DX11 calls to OpenGL. It works really well with older games, too. As I type this, the development version is currently based on the latest Wine-staging codebase, and the stable version, which supports XP, is, I believe, based on Wine 1.7 or 1.9. The site to get that from is: http://fdossena.com/?p=wined3d/index.frag

As for how it does it, it appears to be a form of a proxy-dll modification, as there's no need to modify existing software to use it. Just drop in the proper files from the archive, and go. Personally, I use it to run old beta versions of games on Win10, that would otherwise have full-screen windowing problems, or graphical glitches on my HD screen. It works great, and has very little-to-no performance degradation. 

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If you're running a Kaby Lake or AMD's just released Ryzen, Microsoft has announced "No updates for you!" if you're running Windows 7 through 8.1. Whatever happened to supported through 2020 for 7?

There are a lot of fairly decent computers out there, especially laptops, that shipped with Vista. Many of them only have 2 gigs RAM and (especially the laptops) many of those have Celerons, a lot of Core Solo Celerons. They can run Windows 10 surprisingly well, especially 32bit. But 7? Noooo. They choke on 7.

A software package to make software that "requires" 7 or later run on Vista would get a bit more life out of older yet still serviceable computers.

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