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NoelC

FINALLY got Win 10 usable again

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Honestly, if ALL I had to worry about was functionality, I might go ahead and adopt Win 10 for my system of choice.  My configuration is even fully private.  But it's a fully moving target.

It has occurred to me to think about adopting it, then just avoid updates for a couple of years at a time, but that line of reasoning just leads me back to where I already am with a mature Win 8.1 setup, which just runs and runs and facilitates my work. 

Win 10 isn't as stable, and is not likely to get any more so.  And it's no more functional as a desktop workstation.  Maybe it's interesting if you like fun n games and social networking, but that's not where I'm at.

Honestly, EVERYTHING Microsoft has put effort into is exclusively what I DON'T want in a serious computer platform.  If they had done even just a few things besides hanging garbage Apps all over a good kernel, I might find it more attractive.

Maybe, with nothing actually better, I would have STILL considered it worth using if only they didn't actively make the parts that I do need worse.  Then back that up with continuous updates destabilization.

It's hard to imagine that Microsoft is making SO many moves to stop Windows 10 from being a viable choice for people who need serious computing power.  But they clearly recognized this, based on the initial giveaway.

So here I am, putting in all the ongoing work necessary to turn Windows into a usable system, without actually committing to use it as my system of choice, just so I can stay fully informed about what it's capable of.  Who knows, maybe one day Redmond will wake up, lay off the people who are killing Microsoft's legacy, and make a halfway decent future release.  I fear they may longer be technically capable, though.

-Noel

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Hi NoeC I agree 100% with you and I think that MS lost focus totally telling about O.S. desktop now all for them is directed to smartphones, tablets etc for me one big mistake; still you have another forms to make Windows "seem" true operating system look here and search on MDL Projects and Applications\MSMG Toolkit v6.0 you see amazing "things" ok :)

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On 11/10/2016 at 5:23 PM, vinifera said:

atleast 9x was usable :P

I actually had more issues with Windows 10 than Windows Vista or ME :l
Even ME had better USB support than 10, had to reset once or twice because usb stopped working.

Edited by ~♥Aiko♥Chan♥~

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Never mind , Windows XP is faster than 10. any body against this statement?

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45 minutes ago, Dibya said:

Never mind , Windows XP is faster than 10. any body against this statement?

Yes, count me in.

It is EXTREMELY repetitive.

You have posted this or similar XP fanboyism all over the board.

We got the concept by now :yes:, there is no need that you post it again and again, even if it is formally correct, it is no real news, and it is additionally rather hard to accept it when coming from someone that didn't actually use NT 4.00 or Windows 2000 (which were actually leaner and faster than XP, BTW) :whistle:.

jaclaz



 

Edited by jaclaz
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26 minutes ago, jaclaz said:

Yes, count me in.

It is EXTREMELY repetitive.

You have posted this or similar XP fanboyism all over the board.

We got the concept by now :yes:, there is no need that you post it again and again, even if it is formally correct, it is no real news, and it is additionally rather hard to accept it when coming from someone that didn't actually use NT 4.00 or Windows 2000 (which were actually leaner and faster than XP, BTW) :whistle:.

jaclaz



 

Especially Windows 2000, which is more on par with XP than NT 4.0. I mean, it's easy to say that X old OS is faster than Y newer OS, because usually the newer OS has more stuff, to make it work wth newer protocols, programs and APIs (even though Windows 10 is slower by bloatware, but that's a different subject altogether)! If we go by speed alone, and not count any other parameters, I bet MS-DOS is faster than any of the Windows OSs. Anybody against this statement? :P

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2 hours ago, Dibya said:

Never mind , Windows XP is faster than 10. any body against this statement?

Does it really matter?  XP was a toy, plain and simple, because it was 32 bit.  Maybe it worked well enough for the things you needed.  It didn't for mine. 

MANY tasks require access to a larger address space (and freedom from fragmentation issues) now when processing real world problems.  XP x64 was a start on the right path, but it took until late Vista or the release of 7 for x64 to be a serious system all on its own.  It took until Windows 7 or 8 to get most everything in the system up to native 64 bit.

And it's not like the later systems are fundamentally different architectures than XP.  They're all a derivative of a Vax/VMS virtual memory system under the covers (re-implemented as NT by Dave Cutler). 

Even today you can carve off a lot of the extra fat, and lo and behold the kernel underneath isn't bad at all.  Not surprisingly, a trimmed, lean system is pretty fast, even by comparison to your beloved XP.

The last time I EVER remember having any disk corruption was back around 2003 or 2004 when running XP.  NTFS on newer systems is more reliable than ever, and beyond that I run ReFS on several of my disk partitions.

I remember a very specific incident in about 2003 when I still worked for an engineering firm...  I had to copy about 5 gigabytes of data in multiple folders from one system to another, and I absolutely could NOT get XP to do it all in one shot.  It would just fail with some esoteric error code or another.  So I had to break the job down to multiple incremental XCOPY commands and run them more than once to get it done.  By contrast, I haven't had to worry about the amount of data I was copying with any newer 64 bit Windows system.  Nowadays hardly anyone worries that a video file of a few gigabytes is going to copy correctly.

Systems today simply DO more than XP, and run longer.

My systems running 7 and 8.1 today are at least 10x faster than the ones I ran XP on, and while I had to reboot XP every few weeks, these run for months.  The last time I remember having to regularly reboot my systems because of things that either stopped working or crashes because of things like resource leaks chewing up the entire available pool was in XP and early Vista.

I agree that every new system gets a bit slower, mostly because no one at Microsoft really gives a d*** whether the code is optimized.  They never have.  Here's a statement for you:  If it HAD been optimized, XP (and any Windows system before or since) could have been quite a lot faster than they actually were.  Microsoft had a stated policy for a long time that they never polished or optimized anything once it was working, since the world cares more about innovation than they do efficiency.  So they just moved on.

XP was great for its day.  That day is not this day.

-Noel

P.S., I think that if you feel strongly about something, you should feel free to post it as often and in as many places as you like, and be prepared for debate.  I've also been told my criticisms of Win 10 are repetitive and negative.  To those who feel that way I say:  Feel free to read something else.

Edited by NoelC
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2 hours ago, NoelC said:

-Noel

P.S., I think that if you feel strongly about something, you should feel free to post it as often and in as many places as you like, and be prepared for debate.  I've also been told my criticisms of Win 10 are repetitive and negative.  To those who feel that way I say:  Feel free to read something else.

I admire your endurance 100%! I have just been commissioned to build a very expensive games computer as a Christmas present to a customer's son and in general desktop computers are still very much the thing for my customers...so a good stable OS is important....

We discussed whether to install Windows 10 or Windows 7 and as soon as I said that support stops for Windows 7 in 2020 he chose Windows 10...go figure...

If your tweaking makes Windows 10 viable and iffffffffffffffffffff Microsoft listens...then I would be interested....

Do not stop repeating yourself....don't have to feel like I am alone....:P.

bookie32

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Gaming has financed a lot of advances in desktop computing.  

The integration of Win 10 with Xbox may ultimately provide your particular recipient some extra value, so given an emphasis on gaming, Win 10 may be as good a choice as any.

What video card are you thinking of putting into it?  One of the top-end nVidias?

-Noel

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Yeah it is a asus geforce gtx nvidia 1080 strix

Edited by bookie32

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7 minutes ago, bookie32 said:

Yeah it is a asus nvidia 1080

Going on a tangent here (we went from discussing making Windows 10 usable, to the XP vs new Windows discussion, to a system built for a gamer, so I think I'm allowed to rant a bit), it's a shame AMD isn't currently competing in the high end segment. I see lots of people go for nVidia due to this, and not only have high end GPUs increased their price range over the last 5 or so years (we went from 300$/400$ for the Radeon 6950/Geforce 580 to 800$+ with the Titan XP, and for less, the Fury X), but an increasing number of games are being bundled with the horrible nVidia GameWorks, that effectively serves the purpose of making AMD cards look bad, with little to no visual gain.

The same can practically be said for the CPU market, which, I think, is even worse than the GPU market, with Intel releasing year after year of quad cores with marginal performance gains, and constant motherboard switching, because they insist on changing sockets every 2 generations of a CPU (I get it that new platforms pave the way for new features, but why not just release new chipsets for the same socket?!?!)!

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My recent experience - and it DOES actually speak to my decision not to put Win 10 on my hardware - is that ATI (AMD) isn't doing as well at writing drivers as they once did.  Every Windows 8.1 compatible driver release after November 2015 has been missing features I actually use.  Two things, specifically, that are somewhat related:  The ability to define a custom calibration, and the ability to auto load that as a preset.  They deprecated the auto load first, but I found a workaround.  The last straw came in mid 2016 when they just removed the ability to calibrate the output per port entirely.

There's an old saying:  "Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler".  They chose to make it simpler.

So here I am, with a still decent ATI Radeon HD 7850 but unable to use drivers newer than November 2015.  Imagine what drivers may be required to run the latest Windows 10 release.  MAYBE those older drivers would work.  Or maybe not.

I really hate the "Dumbing Down of Things".

-Noel

Edited by NoelC

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10 hours ago, NoelC said:

So here I am, with a still decent ATI Radeon HD 7850 but unable to use drivers newer than November 2015.  Imagine what drivers may be required to run the latest Windows 10 release.  MAYBE those older drivers would work.  Or maybe not.

I really hate the "Dumbing Down of Things".

-Noel

This problem has reared its ugly head time and time again in Linux....so I put the old card I had in a Windows 7 and left it at that....really sad that they have just given up on some graphic cards..."Dumbing Down of Things" as you so quaintly put it is just a pain..

I don't like everything Nvidia are doing but they are good at maintaining drivers...

bookie32 

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10 hours ago, NoelC said:

My recent experience - and it DOES actually speak to my decision not to put Win 10 on my hardware - is that ATI (AMD) isn't doing as well at writing drivers as they once did.

I guess the AMD guys are all busy bickering with Linux kernel maintainers lately ...

If you are not aware of the current issues, they tried to have their drivers "integrated" in the kernel, they were told them that the way they were implementing it was not acceptable, they went along nonetheless and recently they were officially denied the merge by Dave Airlie:

https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2016-December/126516.html

jaclaz


 

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Okay Friends I said somethings as i answered.

I am a gamer I ran some bench i always got a massive amount fps more on XP .

None of PCs are looser , they are terribly fast . My XP boots up in 5to7sec with SSD. Esed is my AV .

I haven't formatted my pc for two years . ALl My trim utility and  Avg Tune up utilities kept it alive for long time .

I have following oses in my 500GB Toshiba SSD

Windows 2000 Professional (sp4+tomasz86 update pack + Kernelex by BWC)

Windows XP Professional Sp3 32bit

Windows XP Professional sp2x64

Windows Server 2003 Data center edition Sp2

Windows vista ultimate x64 sp2 + Platform update

Windows 7 professional  32bit sp1

Windows 8.1 Enterprise x64

Windows 10 Professionalx64

In this circumstantial , Server2003 is fastest , XP is after (Heavly tweaked) and then 2k comes to win the battle.  SO no query NT5.x is leader.

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