Why I find Windows 8.1 more suitable than Windows 7

[NoelC]

On ‎6‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 6:23 AM, Mcinwwl said:

Willing to share?

I know you asked xpclient, but for what it's worth, some of my favorite tweaks are here, here, here, and here, among other places on this forum.  I also wrote a decent eBook on it.

-Noel

[xpclient]

I agree with so many things you say Noel! Windows 8.1 out of the box is worse than Windows 7 but 3rd party apps can make up for its deficiencies.

I restored the classic Task Manager from WinRE/WinPE too.

Windows 8 only dropped file backup to ZIP files. The block-based incremental System Image Backup still exists but is hidden. Simply run SDCLT.exe as administrator. It will start System Image Backup in 8.1. If run without elevating it, it doesn't run and gives some retarded error. Or if you have tweaked Windows 8.1 to prefer external manifests which I had to do for high DPI display scaling fixes, then you can just take the manifest embedded in SDCLT.exe, copy it to Notepad, and modify it to say <requestedExecutionLevel
                level="requireAdministrator"

and save it as "SDCLT.exe.manifest" in C:\Windows\system32. Then it will always auto-elevate itself.

As for Office, I use Office 2007. I cannot tolerate the fullscreen backstage view UI in Office 2010. Plus, I find the change from the Office button in 2007 to the "File" button in 2010 a step backwards because it breaks Fitt's law of usability. UI elements in a corner or on the edge of a window are easier to target. I had got used to the Office 2007 button which from a usability point of view is a splendid idea at the top left corner. Also, I cannot tolerate the Ribbon UI so I also use three add-ins with Office 2007:

- Classic menu for Office by addintools which restores the classic text-based menus and toolbars
- Ribbon Helper which makes the menus behave like real menus (click once to activate, hover to switch)
- SearchCommands from Microsoft's Office Labs which lets you find the command by searching!

I cannot use Office 2010 for another reason. The region where I live (India) has extremely limited and slow broadband internet access (1 Mbps) and Office 2010's updates are very huge in size (especially the 64-bit version) compared to Office 2007.

Windows 8.1 with the dozens of app fixes applied to it to make it behave runs just as well as my beloved Windows XP Professional or my 2nd favorite Windows 7. The 2 reasons I had to move from Windows 7 to 8.1 were: Bluetooth low energy mouse which only works with 8.1 and the DPI related changes which are better in Windows 8.1.

I do miss some things about Windows 7 which 8.1 removed: Previous Versions, Virtual PC 2007/Windows Virtual PC, Media Center.

Windows 8/8.1/10 also removed the ability for PCs to act as a Bluetooth audio receiver/sink. Meaning you can't stream audio from your phone or a laptop to a desktop PC's speakers using Bluetooth. Fortunately, I found alternative apps for Windows and Android which use WiFi and stream using UPnP/DLNA.

Oracle (formerly Sun's) VirtualBox and VMWare's virtualization apps are more than a suitable substitute for Virtual PC. Of course, there's also Hyper-V if required. Windows 8.1 also removed DirectDraw emulation for many old games that I play so I still need Windows 7 on least one PC for that, otherwise those games run extremely slow.

I do miss having Media Center on 8.1 - I don't have a product key that works any more. I had those free product keys for Media Center which all expired. But my LG 32LF6300 TV has a DVR feature so it's a suitable substitute I guess.

Edited July 1, 2016 by xpclient

[NoelC]

All over the planet many of us have brought to bear so much knowledge and 3rd party software (and maybe even written a little ourselves) to both undo many of the things Microsoft did and to nudge Windows 8.1 in the good directions that Vista/7 were going.  8.1 hadn't yet been altered so fundamentally as to make that impossible.

We're recognizing that it may not be possible to do with later versions.  It's not our resistance to change.  It's not that there's something that we've yet to discover.

I don't know how far each of you reading this have taken Win 10 in the same vein, but I have done all I can do to it, with the help of many others here and elsewhere.  What have we learned about Win 10's ability to be tweaked?

• With even more effort, and more disruptive tweaks, it CAN be modded into a better desktop-only system.
• But it hasn't yet really offered anything interesting or attractive to offset the negatives.  I expected better Apps by now, didn't you?
• Many tweaks are becoming so opposite from what Microsoft supports that they're not really viable/maintainable.
• Re-theming has become possible, though there are some things that no longer respond well (e.g,. the Taskbar).
• Microsoft is removing things without providing acceptable substitutes.  Public ridicule causes them to put back one or two occasionally.
• Designers are starting to embrace the horrible flat, lifeless UI, and slowly forget how to create usable, well-integrated desktop applications.
• Worst of all, Microsoft is actively disrupting the customization we might choose to do by regularly releasing incompatible builds.

I had build 10286 looking and working nicely (as far as it goes) then along came 10586.  Now after more effort I have a decent looking and working 10586 and lo and behold in a month we can expect a 14xxx that will just blow that all away.  I crammed a bunch of knowledge into a re-tweaker, and sure as shootin' every new 14xxx build breaks something it does.  They read about all the tweaks here that we so freely share.  They could use the knowledge of what people want to drive development, but nooooo...  I've grown weary of trying to re-discover yet another way to achieve the same thing, and even with an active user community we simply can't compete with the people who a) have the source code and b) are actively thwarting whatever we do, on purpose.

And have you noticed, new processes keep showing up?  Is the value the OS provides US expanding proportionately?  I'm not seeing it.  It's just getting more and more bloated - and with the gargantuan set of resources I've built into my computer I imagine I care less than most.

Look, we've all bent over backwards to try to meet Microsoft halfway.  They aren't having it.  They're executing to a "break it" mentality and trying to CHANGE us and our goals WAY TOO QUICKLY.  And without anything decent too change TO.  What is there about Apps that hasn't already been done in a web page?  That nothing really interesting is happening in the App world after years of development (free Visual Studio everyone?) tells us that the UWP model just doesn't have what it takes to take over the reigns.  And has anyone EVER used "high performance" and "App" in the same sentence?  Performance does matter.

Sorry, Microsoft, I skipped ME, pre-SP Vista, and Windows 8.0, and like many others (hello, hundreds of millions of Win 7 users who STILL haven't upgraded) I'm skipping Windows 10 until you give it sufficient value to make it an actual advance over its predecessors.   I could have been your greatest supporter (note who's here promoting Windows 8.1) but you're not getting one penny more from me until that happens, and who knows?  I might even influence a person or two besides myself.  The truth matters.

-Noel

Edit:  One more thing I didn't mention AT ALL yet...  TRUST

Microsoft simultaneously wants us to TRUST them to keep our data safe in their cloud, then at the same time pulls stunts like presenting GWX dialogs to catch distracted users with big shiny buttons, downloading gigabytes without asking first, reverting privacy settings...

Edit 2:  Lastly, in the vein of this thread - HARDWARE:  Are computer systems advancing enough any more to drive us to buy all new hardware and with it get a new OS?  I looked recently...  Any new hardware I'D want (e.g., Dell Precision T7910 workstation) is shipped new today with Win 8.1, with an available downgrade to 7.  The world is not tolerating Microsoft's game.

Edited July 1, 2016 by NoelC

[xpclient]

Yes I can't stress this enough too. One person's junk can be another person's treasure but whatever junk Windows introduced over the years could be turned off without affecting performance and long term stability. Now the updates are delivering nothing that is of value to me, adding more junk at a pace that I can't keep up with. I can't even turn off or control the torture that's been unleashed on me on a regular basis via Windows Update Bandwidth Abuse Services  and it's continuously disrupting my working setup. That's a deal-breaker!!

I didn't think I would find anything worthwhile in Windows 8/8.1 but I did. Now I am again struggling to find anything of value in Windows 10. Meanwhile they have made it extremely hard to migrate to it by removing the things of value that were present in its predecessors. 

Edited July 1, 2016 by xpclient

[NoelC]

I can offer a potential strategy for managing Windows Update in 10 that would probably meet your goals.  As with most Windows 10 tweaks it would require more ongoing effort, but it IS doable.  I've been using it for a while with all my Windows systems, including Win 10.
 

1.  Configure your Computer Configuration > Windows Components > Windows Update : Configure Automatic Updates policy to Disabled to disallow automatic updating.  This gets you most of the way there.

2.  To be sure, disable the Windows Firewall and Windows Update services with Services.msc.

3.  I know you run the Sphinx firewall.  To be really, really sure, reconfigure it not to allow Windows Updates to succeed.

In this state, Windows will not abuse your bandwidth downloading updates except when you initiate the process.  Note:  Windows Defender WILL still download malware definitions - disabling that is possible too but with different tactics, and you may actually want to allow the auto-update of definitions.

Now, when you DO want to check for updates, the process goes something like this...

4.  Reconfigure Sphinx firewall to allow svchost to reach the Windows Update servers it will need.  In my case I reassign to a zone I've pre-configured to specifically allow the 10 or so windows update servers and nothing else (no telemetry / stats, for example).  I can provide more detail if you want.

5.  Go into Services.msc and reconfigure the Windows Update service to Manual, Start it, then reconfigure back to Disabled. 

6.  Do the same as step 5 with Windows Firewall.

7.  Use the WUShowHide tool (KB3073930) to request the list of available updates.

8.  If you see updates there that you don't want, hide them.  If you see updates you DO want, do step 9.

9.  Start Settings (the only modern App I've retained), navigate into Update & security, and do [ Check for updates ], which will cause the download.

10.  If you don't reboot, just stop the Windows Update and Windows Firewall services.

11.  Reconfigure Sphinx back to normal to disallow Windows Updates.

Note:  In my case I have removed ALL rules from the stock Windows Firewall, so that even when I do enable that service (now apparently required by Windows Update in Win 10) it allows nothing more than what Sphinx lets through.  Just it being running is enough apparently.

-Noel

Edited July 1, 2016 by NoelC

[xpclient]

So much self-torture...Whatever for? I will use 8.1 till Jan. 2023 and then download the latest build of Windows 10 whatever it is by then and then completely turn off the Windows Update service.  Malware can affect an unpatched OS but it can't be worse than first party malware from Microsoft downloading something of unknown size on your PC without any progress bar.

Btw, I reverted to an older version of Windows Firewall Control by Sphinx Software (version 4.1 made for Windows 7). It works perfectly fine in Windows 8.1 and consumes less memory. The open handle count is also less for its process than the same app which is now bloated at version 7.5 (had 16000 handles open).

Edited July 2, 2016 by xpclient

[NoelC]

Everyone's threshold of pain is of course different.  SHOULD we have to do such backflips to protect ourselves from the OS vendor?  ABSOLUTELY NOT.  But in my case I already do the same things for my Win 8 and 7 systems, so it's really no different.  I don't sense Win 10 as a major new pain, just a general worsening of the pain across the board.  The process I described above would probably be worth going through IF Win 10 actually brought new value to offset it.  It just....  Doesn't.

On the other subject...  I reported a handle leak problem to the Sphinx author a while back, and he fixed it right away.  I haven't been tracking what he's released, though, since I've been beta testing his newer builds.  He has betas available on his site, but if I were you I'd write him and ask whether an updated version is available to fix that handle issue.  Right now the software running on my Win 8.1 system has 377 handles and the service has 241.  I don't know what memory stats you usually use, but all the important ones are listed here (by Process Hacker 2)...

-Noel

Edited July 2, 2016 by NoelC

[xpclient]

Oh OK thank you Noel for that info. I guess I must be running the version with the handle leak. There might be under the hood improvements but I see no major differences in the user experience of Windows Firewall Control between versions 3.5, 4.1 and 7.5.

The older version that meets my needs has much better performance:

Edited July 2, 2016 by xpclient

[NoelC]

It may well be that the older version was a lower resource user, I don't know.

I can't help but notice that our Process Hacker output is somewhat different...  I'm guessing either I have not installed all the components or the versions are different.  I just checked - I'm up to date, but as I recall I avoided adding the permanent Process Hacker driver...

-Noel

[xpclient]

I am using SysInternals Process Explorer although I do love Process Hacker too and have it installed.

[NoelC]

Heh, thanks.  The output looked so similar I thought it was the same program.

-Noel

[xpclient]

I would like to add one more point. Windows 8.1 has superior virtual machine performance as a guest OS vs Windows 7 or 10. Although on real hardware on my new fast PC with an SSD and cutting edge CPU, all 3 OSes are fast. But Windows 7 (with WDDM drivers) is not so great, have to use it without Aero in a VM for fast performance. And Windows 10 performs abysmally in the VM. The VM app is VirtualBox running on 8.1 host with all optimizations enabled for max. performance. Windows 8.1 inside the VM performs extremely well, almost near-native performance.

Edited August 13, 2016 by xpclient

[NoelC]

I see that too (for 7, not 10), and it's reflected in the WEI scores...  I think it must be because of the specifics of the virtual display driver implementation not matching that of the host system, and thus more has to be emulated.

Here, using VMware, except for a slightly more sluggish display my Win 7 VM delivers more or less the same general performance as that of 8.1 or 10.  In fact, other than the display, Win 7 VM generally seems just a little faster than either of the newer systems.

WEI scores from each of the three OSs in my VMs, outfitted with equivalent virtual hardware and similarly tweaked...

Win 7 x64 Ultimate:

Win 8.1 x64 Enterprise eval:

Win 10 Anniversary:

-Noel

Edited August 12, 2016 by NoelC

[NoelC]

By the way, I didn't say it before but I'm glad to see you've finally embraced 8.1, Gaurav.  I've been espousing the benefits of a well-tweaked and augmented 8.1 system for quite a while, but not a lot of folks believed me, I think. 

Microsoft needs to wake up and change some policies to allow the same thing to become of Win 10.  Their "we're in control" stance isn't going to work.  They're not good enough at what they do to be exclusively in control.

-Noel

[jaclaz]

Hmmm.

Actual numbers tell a different story.

The Windows Experience in Windows 7 "assesses key components on a scale of 1.0 to 7.9"
The Windows Experience in Windows 8.1 (and 10)  "assesses key components on a scale of 1.0 to 9.9"

And of course the metrics is largely meaningless, I mean the ratio between "graphics" and "gaming graphics" is (roughly) 1:10 which should mean that the relative weight of the items is either completely random or (intentionally) altered to favour the perception of a relevant "gaming graphics" performance increase.

jaclaz
 

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