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Research on AM3+ board and chipsets: Resume

ragnargd

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ragnargd

ragnargd

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On 29.7.2017 at 4:14 PM, ruthan said:

I have tried next step - add second videocard, but i have problem force Windows 7 work with 2 Nvidia videocard and make newer Geforce 1030 as primary card. 
 Do someone tried 2 NV cards, or everyone using AMD / Nvidia combo?

You should read the thread you are posting in...

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ruthan

ruthan

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I really dont believe that combination of Geforce 7950GT and newer Nvidia card could work with Windows 7 or 10, can someone share screenshot of device manager or something like that to proof that it is working?

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ruthan

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Maybe its off-topic, but I succeeded for my 7950GT in Win7&10 after reading IvanRF's tips: http://ivanrf.com/en/nvidia-compatibility-issue-with-windows-10/

  I think that it is about 1 card setup, not about dual card setup, in general i have not problem with single Geforce 7950GT card in Win 7 or 10, but its hard to believe that multiple cards are working, virtualy whole internet says that it dont.. but here in Win 98 > 1 GB machine list, is 1 users entry, which claim that Geforce 7950GT and Geforce 950 is working in Windows 10.

   I really want to see it, if it working, there is some special trick which need to be done, simple dual gpu stunt described above is not enough.

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ragnargd

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On 3.8.2017 at 4:10 PM, ruthan said:

  I think that it is about 1 card setup, not about dual card setup, in general i have not problem with single Geforce 7950GT card in Win 7 or 10, but its hard to believe that multiple cards are working, virtualy whole internet says that it dont.. but here in Win 98 > 1 GB machine list, is 1 users entry, which claim that Geforce 7950GT and Geforce 950 is working in Windows 10.

   I really want to see it, if it working, there is some special trick which need to be done, simple dual gpu stunt described above is not enough.

That user is me, btw., that's why you can find my name next to that combo ... <_<

... but don't worry, i'll show you a screenshot, once i'm back from Sha 2017... geeez... mysterious, inexplainable whitchcraft coming up... wait for it... :boring:

 

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ragnargd

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On 7.8.2017 at 4:16 AM, ruthan said:

  I already discussed it on NV forum and elsewere i have got hard no go, so im wanting on your screenshot and magic.. 

For the magic to happen, you have to ask the right questions.

Screenshots are in the 7z-Attachment (otherwise the filesize would have been over the MSFN-threshold), they show my flagship with an ASRock 890FX Deluxe5.

The 7900 GTX is connected to VGA and used as the primary display by W98SE, the 770 GTX is connected to DVI-D, and used as the primary display by XP and W10.

Because of a limited number of software-licenses, i have only one other PC in this constellation running:

  • MSI 970A SLI Krait
  • 16GB DDR3
  • AMD 4320 FX
  • SB Audigy PCI
  • NV 7900 GTX 512MB (-> VGA, for W98SE)
  • NV GTX 960 2GB (-> HDMI, for XP, W10 and Ubuntu)
  • SATA-II-SSD fpr W98SE connected PCI add-in SATA I card with a VIA 6421A chipset (sitting on a PCI-to-PCIe-adapter).

As i'm experimenting with PCI-to-PCIe-Adapters on that machine at the moment, i can't do screenshots of that one right now. Once i have my Ryzen, the hardware will be used on that machine (if it workes out).

Hardware.7z

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ruthan

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Ok, so proof is almost here, i think that i was in situation when i had same things in device manager, but still didnt get picture from second card before reboot (after i got VGA safe driver and Code 43 on one of cards driver)..

I believe you, but this far from to be 100% proof, i would be nice see device manager on one side of screenshot, and on the second game running in the windows mode and with Afterburner or similar overlay, where would be also name of used GPU + some proof about in which slot is which card (because in primary slot both cards would run well in all OSes) - or just short video of machine internals (which cards are in which slot info) and running game in windows on screen - would be 100% proof.


Im sure that in dual stunt description is missing some secret sauce..

  Analysis time:
- Windows 98 screen - ok, im there too, no problem there, if old card is in primary slot
- WinXP picture - if GTX 770 in second slot and picture from it, you are winner, but i dont care about XP, because my Geforce 1030 doesnt support XP at all, its Windows 7+ card
- Win10 this is interesting, have tried Geforce 7950 force to Standard VGA driver or SVGA driver, but i dont know what is Microsoft Basic Display Adapter (its some microsoft driver forced to use with card?)
- chipset should be fine - we both have same AMD 970/SB950 board.

What is different (what could make a difference between success and failure):
- Microsoft basic Display adapter for older card, its means Windows 10 incompatible card, maybe is problem is that my Geforce 7950GT is still supported by Windows 10 - its running full 3D (its fully compatible) with 309 drivers..
- i have Asus board, you have Asrock and MSI
- i have MSI Geforce 1030 you had GTX 770  / GTX 960 (but its not on screens)
- my Geforce 7950GT have only 2x DVI so im using DVI, on MSI geforce 1030 i have DVI and HDMi i have tried both
- in theory card vendors / bios could matters, i have MSI 7950GT - last bios

What is need for further analysis:
- could you try DVI on your Geforce 7900 card?
- pleas make screenshot of Nvidia control panel in Windows 7+, show that is working.. Im getting, no display connected message.
- i would like to see which version of Nvidia drivers is used for new cards, in Windows 7 or 10 OSes
- do you have also installed Windows 7 on some of these machines, or could you try it? I did most experimenting here and there is problem that 7900 would be still supported.. 

Edited by ruthan
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ragnargd

ragnargd

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ruthan,

22 hours ago, ruthan said:

Ok, so proof is almost here, i think that i was in situation when i had same things in device manager, but still didnt get picture from second card before reboot (after i got VGA safe driver and Code 43 on one of cards driver)..

I believe you, but this far from to be 100% proof, i would be nice see device manager on one side of screenshot, and on the second game running in the windows mode and with Afterburner or similar overlay, where would be also name of used GPU + some proof about in which slot is which card (because in primary slot both cards would run well in all OSes) - or just short video of machine internals (which cards are in which slot info) and running game in windows on screen - would be 100% proof.

:dubbio:

22 hours ago, ruthan said:

Im sure that in dual stunt description is missing some secret sauce..

...which is, all the boards i mention have SLI and 16x/16x (890FX) or SLI 8x/8x (970A) capability. It does work without - i tried on my ASRock 970 Pro3 R2.0 - but is was noticably slower on the faster GPU on XP or W10.

22 hours ago, ruthan said:

- Windows 98 screen - ok, im there too, no problem there, if old card is in primary slot

W9x can only boot only from the primary card, as you cannot disable the primary slot on w9x. You can do that on XP or later (can't say for W2K).

As i wrote here in the thread we are discussing in (ruthan, you DID read that, right? ...) on boards with 870 chipset, there on some boards you can set the physical secondary slot as the logical primary slot, circumventing this nuisance.

22 hours ago, ruthan said:

- WinXP picture - if GTX 770 in second slot and picture from it, you are winner, but i dont care about XP, because my Geforce 1030 doesnt support XP at all, its Windows 7+ card

There are some games "designed for w9x", that don't run with W10 (or on any 64-bit-Windows, to be precise), but do run with XP. That's why i always install XP as well.

This was the reason i bought the GTX 770. I even bought a GTX Titan for that reason for my next build, as that card is the (nearly) fastest card still running on XP, and still does really well on W10 (similar to a GTX 970) up to 2560x1440.

All AMD FX boards have full support with drivers and by Microsoft, so i don't feel like a winner making it run with XP.

22 hours ago, ruthan said:

- Win10 this is interesting, have tried Geforce 7950 force to Standard VGA driver or SVGA driver, but i dont know what is Microsoft Basic Display Adapter (its some microsoft driver forced to use with card?)

W7 runs out of support in three years, and i wouldn't want to reinstall my machines, as the build-up is quite complex anyway. So not going for W10 may become a problem later on.

Still, as may here discovered, if you ever switch to W10, be careful with the energy options. RLoew opened a thread on that.

The "Microsoft Basic Display Adapter" is used by W10, when there is no driver explicitely installed.

But none the less, MS installs WDM drivers from NVidia or AMD (or Intel) via Windows Update, so even if it does not show, you will still have may features of the GPU available. This already happened with XP, so this is nothing new.

22 hours ago, ruthan said:

- Microsoft basic Display adapter for older card, its means Windows 10 incompatible card, maybe is problem is that my Geforce 7950GT is still supported by Windows 10 - its running full 3D (its fully compatible) with 309 drivers..

I owned a 7950 GT as well, and was able to (and did) exchange it with my contemporary cards in my PCs without problems, using the 309 drivers (or the 307 on XP, or the inofficial on w9x).

I just liked the 7900 GTX more, as it is faster (it's the fastest card for w9x), and liked the 7600 GT more, as it is easier to cool passively, and needs no additional power cable.

Therefore, i always start with the 7600 GT in a new build, for it beeing silent and hassle-free, and once i decide to keep the build, switch to a 7900 GTX.

I gave the 7950 GT away.

22 hours ago, ruthan said:

- i have Asus board, you have Asrock and MSI

I owned the Asus-board you mention, i just sold it after trying it, as i now only keep SLI-enabled boards. But it worked well. RLoew kept it, afaik, so you might ask him.

22 hours ago, ruthan said:

- i have MSI Geforce 1030 you had GTX 770  / GTX 960 (but its not on screens)

I relocated my one GTX 960 to my multimedia PC, and the other to the PC of my daughter. I built the GTX 950 into a PC as a present for a boy that did not have enough money to buy a gamer-PC. I rarely sell my stuff, rather give them as a gift to people who need stuff, and have only small amounts of money. When i retired most of my AGP-stuff lately, to make room for my new builds, a built three PCs for a local camp of refugees from Afghanistan and Syria.

22 hours ago, ruthan said:

- my Geforce 7950GT have only 2x DVI so im using DVI, on MSI geforce 1030 i have DVI and HDMi i have tried both

- could you try DVI on your Geforce 7900 card?

My two 7900 GTX only have DVI-D ports, so i use an DVI-D-to-VGA cables or adapters for w98se. But i never had any problem using DVI-D with w98se at all. Still, VGA has two advantages: On most monitors, it is the first port to be scanned for input, and there are some monitors, that don't show all resolutions on DVI-D, while they did on VGA (i gave both away).

I have to do this anyway, as the KVM i'm using does only support VGA. All the cards i have do have DVI-D ports, but unfortunately, all KVMs i know of that support DVI-D don't support PS/2 (which, for me, is essential).

22 hours ago, ruthan said:

- in theory card vendors / bios could matters, i have MSI 7950GT - last bios

Bios did never matter for me. What did matter, was the speed of cards - but only in SLI with XP. But i wouldn't say i know all cards, so YMMV.

22 hours ago, ruthan said:

- i would like to see which version of Nvidia drivers is used for new cards, in Windows 7 or 10 OSes

- do you have also installed Windows 7 on some of these machines, or could you try it? I did most experimenting here and there is problem that 7900 would be still supported.. 

I use exactly the same drivers as you do. I had my multi-boot PCs running with W7 some years ago (except for the 970A Krait), using all cards without problem.

22 hours ago, ruthan said:

- pleas make screenshot of Nvidia control panel in Windows 7+, show that is working.. Im getting, no display connected message.

Again: :dubbio:

I will, but maybe not today.

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ruthan

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Hi thanks for long reply.

Quote

As i wrote here in the thread we are discussing in (ruthan, you DID read that, right? ...) on boards with 870 chipset, there on some boards you can set the physical secondary slot as the logical primary slot, circumventing this nuisance.

   I know that Gigabyte boards have such option (in which slot is primary GPU), but what it means for Windows 98 are they ignoring this options, or can use with this card in second for Windows 98? I didnt study too much about 870, because i already know that i will use 970 chipset..

 

Quote

There are some games "designed for w9x", that don't run with W10 (or on any 64-bit-Windows, to be precise), but do run with XP. That's why i always install XP as well.

I agree with this, but this i cant test anything in XP, as i said my stronger card is Win 7+ and Geforce 7950GT i hope would be good enough for XP only games. 
 

Quote

This was the reason i bought the GTX 770. I even bought a GTX Titan for that reason for my next build, as that card is the (nearly) fastest card still running on XP, and still does really well on W10 (similar to a GTX 970) up to 2560x1440.

 There is unofficial INF mod for G970 / G980 drivers to work with XP, its running well, otherwise only G960 is supported.

Quote

I owned the Asus-board you mention, i just sold it after trying it, as i now only keep SLI-enabled boards. But it worked well. RLoew kept it, afaik, so you might ask him.

  Ok its great, so we can remove board from equation.. When i were buying board, i dind care about SLI and PCI-E Gen2 4x is still good enough for me.. I searched for board with 3x PCI slot, i didnt find any so i bough just cheap Asus board, which all parameters which i needed.

Quote

I relocated my one GTX 960 to my multimedia PC, and the other to the PC of my daughter. I built the GTX 950 into a PC as a present for a boy that did not have enough money to buy a gamer-PC. I rarely sell my stuff, rather give them as a gift to people who need stuff, and have only small amounts of money. When i retired most of my AGP-stuff lately, to make room for my new builds, a built three PCs for a local camp of refugees from Afghanistan and Syria.

  Thats nice. 
For our case, so Geforce 960 and Geforce 950 worked for dual stunt?

Quote

 

My two 7900 GTX only have DVI-D ports, so i use an DVI-D-to-VGA cables or adapters for w98se. But i never had any problem using DVI-D with w98se at all. Still, VGA has two advantages: On most monitors, it is the first port to be scanned for input, and there are some monitors, that don't show all resolutions on DVI-D, while they did on VGA (i gave both away).

I have to do this anyway, as the KVM i'm using does only support VGA. All the cards i have do have DVI-D ports, but unfortunately, all KVMs i know of that support DVI-D don't support PS/2 (which, for me, is essential).

 

And can you just try to connect DVI and test, if you configuration could this work (it will take some time than i can get new right cable)? My monitor has not vga input at all.

 

Quote

The "Microsoft Basic Display Adapter" is used by W10, when there is no driver explicitely installed.

  Its strange because i never saw such device in my system, i had PCI VGA adapter or card detected as Nvidia card.. Its not in device list, could you pleas check what inf it using etc?

Summary (where could be difference):
- Windows configuration issue, related to Microsoft basic display adapter.
- It could be video cable.  Tested with DVI to VGA - not my problem.
- It could be GPU vendor - but not big chance, but MSI are sometimes more lazy than im..
- It could be GPU type - but not big chance, Pascal GPU too new for this?


Am i missing something? 

-----

 I really wan to see that Nvidia panel screenshot to post it on Nvidia forum, were people saying that it could not work.

Here you can see, that i could produce some looks goods like picture too, but its not working at all, used driver is VGA save (there is message that its driver dont support plug and play) something.. I would really like to see same pictures data from your machine..

Nothing.png

Edited by ruthan
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ragnargd

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4 hours ago, ruthan said:

Just reminder, im still tuned..

Why, this is the same result as i have... In W10, my "Microsoft Basic Display Adapter" shows the ID of a GTX 7900 (512MB) (VEN_10DE&DEV_0290&SUBSYS_040D10DE&REV_A1),

while my main GPU is (now) a GTX 970 4GB (VEN_10DE&DEV_13C2&SUBSYS_00000000&REV_A1). Perhaps i just don't get what is the question...

grafik.png.fac3cca3160a9aae25433c6b80e02dd7.pnggrafik.png.e888b4229834a812999a2e4629bda31f.pnggrafik.png

 

Ah, now i found where they made fun of you on the nvidia forum... mind if i join you there?

As far as i can see, it's not about them not believing you. They troll you.

I can see that as i watched at least two of them before, where they were rather helpful to others (regarding legacy hardware and drivers).

Can it be that they are annoyed by the righteous way you talked to them?

Edited by ragnargd
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