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front usb computer case connection to pentium iii motherboards


cov3rt

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i'm in the middle of building a windows 95 pc and i was wondering if its possible to get front usb connectors from the computer case to the motherboard to work on pentium iii systems that don't seem to have the built in internal usb ports. the earliest motherboards that i've seen with the internal usb ports to connect to the front computer case usb ports are pentium 4 motherboards but i can't use those because im choosing to build this pc with all new parts and i can't find any new p4 boards with isa slots for dos sound that are affordable, the used ones are still a little expensive anyways. i know usb 2.0 is backwards compatible with usb 1.1/1.0, so that part is taken care of. i found something that i thought may work, it's a usb 2.0 pci add on card with 2 ports in the rear, but also has a "special" internal connector for connecting front bay usb which is the only connector that looks to be the only thing im looking for, but what i want to know is if front bay is the same as front usb ports of the computer case or if this method will work? i attached the link to the usb add on card below. also the case to which i want to use doesn't have the wires in the form of a block like the newer cases do, it has them broken down into individual wires, i don't think this would be compatibility issue, just an inconvenience i guess. also, im trying to get more information for a particular motherboard that i may use but i can't find the chipset it uses based on google searching and briefly skimming through the motherboard manual, i listed the manual motherboard below too, basically, i want to be able to know if it's possible to even install a pentium iii cpu, but the better question would be the fastest it CAN support, because i plan on having dvd playback on the system and that would require a pentium iii 800mhz or faster, although the board manual did mention supports 233mhz - 500mhz cpu, that isn't enough info. skimming through wikipedia, the fastest pentium ii cpu is 450mhz and there are no 500mhz pentium ii processors, so by going with this, it should then make the board compatible with the pentium iii 500mhz katmai cpu at least? also based on wikipedia for intel chipsets, the closet chipset that seems to resemble the board seems to be the 440bx which mentions support for pentium iii, there is another alternative to use the Intel SE440BX-2 motherboard but it's a little more expensive at this point and doesn't have integrated ethernet ( which is nice to have ) because i would have to buy an add on ethernet pci card for this board then.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815166001R&cm_re=pci_usb-_-15-166-001R-_-Product

http://thoughtsfactory.org/manuals/M6TBD_User_Manual.pdf

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USB is a rather simple bus, it has four wires:
http://pinouts.ru/Slots/usb_pinout.shtml

It is just the matter of connecting properly those wires.

Almost *any* PCI USB 2.0 card will have an internal connector, many will have, rather or additionally to a set of pins, a "normal" USB female.

Since I believe you have more than one USB sockets on the front of the case, I would rather get a card *like* this one (example):

https://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/USB-2/Card/7-Port-PCI-USB-Card-Adapter~PCIUSB7

besides the (back) four ports, it has three internal ports, one as a USB female and two in a "standard" 9 pin dual USB connector:
http://pinouts.ru/Motherboard/usb_internal_pinout.shtml

jaclaz
 

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Looks like Via Chipset. Drivers should be provided. If not, they're still available on the Internet. The suggestion jaclaz gave is probably your best bet. The only problem I foresee is the "individual wires" and matching the to the link jaclaz gave.

If you go that route, I'm pretty sure I have sufficient info here to help out with the match-up in case you can't figure it out. Be *sure* you match them properly. FYI, those "individual wires" are *surely* marked in some way (ref the pinout link).

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i really don't want to use the slot 1 motherboards due to the higher cost of processor / heatsink, etc, and more complicated design. the socket 370 440bx motherboards with at least one isa slot would be a better choice for my build but i can't find any new ones that are affordable yet. and i also keep debating on whether to just use a pentium 4 board with maybe a pci sound card like the yamaha 724 which seems to have good reviews and sound compatibility in dos games from google searching but the pc is going to be put for sale and i feel like it might draw away buyers if they see the system not having any isa slots or isa sound card present, and i don't want to put the pci sound card on the slot 1 / socket 370 boards AND an isa card, its either one or the other. i guess i'll just have to keep searching or be patient and in the meantime order the other parts for the system. it's basically the motherboard, cpu, fan / heatsink, ram, and sound card that are the problem, everything else is or should be compatible in relation to one another, i even found a new wifi card that should work on this build with windows 95 driver specifically mentioned and downloadable from realtek's site which is the Trendnet TEW-228PI ( pci ven 8180 ). i feel like i should just purchase the case asap because of the limited availability and so i can have a clearer picture of what parts i should then buy or how they would need to be arranged with it.

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12 hours ago, submix8c said:

Looks like Via Chipset. Drivers should be provided. If not, they're still available on the Internet. The suggestion jaclaz gave is probably your best bet. The only problem I foresee is the "individual wires" and matching the to the link jaclaz gave.

If you go that route, I'm pretty sure I have sufficient info here to help out with the match-up in case you can't figure it out. Be *sure* you match them properly. FYI, those "individual wires" are *surely* marked in some way (ref the pinout link).

There is no actual "problem" to foresee, casually the given card comes with BOTH drivers AND a manual specifying the connector pinout:

https://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/USB-2/Card/7-Port-PCI-USB-Card-Adapter~PCIUSB7#dnlds

https://sgcdn.startech.com/005329/media/sets/VIA-VT62xx_Drivers/VIA_VT62xx.zip

https://sgcdn.startech.com/005329/media/sets/PCIUSB7_Manual/PCIUSB7.pdf

Individual wire connectors are usually marked:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/installing-frontal-usb-ports/

Spoiler

90_051.jpg


 

AND they are also normally colour-coded:
http://www.frontx.com/cpx101_2.html

Quote


Red: + 5V / Voltage + / VCC 
White: D - / Data - / USB - 
Green: D + / Data + / USB + 
Black: GND / Voltage - / Ground

 ... only some attention (as always) is needed when connecting them ...

jaclaz


 

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does anyone know if i can use the m6tbd version 1.0 slot 1 motherboard with the slot 1 to socket 370 adapter? i don't know what to look at in the manual to find out whether or not the motherboard will support ANY pentium iii processors. some sources mentioned that it depends on the voltage regulator on the motherboard for 440bx boards, so to find a solution to this, you would use the slot 1 to socket 370 adapter which has it's own internal voltage regulator? or even if the motherboard has a locked multiplier, it won't matter because the pentium iii processors are locked themselves and they will simply run at their desired speed, assuming they are using 100mhz bus speeds which is the same bus speeds supported by this board? i don't plan on installing up to tualatin processors unless of course it's possible which would be nice to have, another route would be to run maybe the pentium iii 450mhz klamath processor and overclock it a little, but that's only IF i can overclock it, even then, it wouldn't be practical because i could only overclock it very little, it would run a bit hot and it would still be slow for my desired build. so again, here is the motherboard below that i would like to try out, the manual, and slot 1 to socket 370 adapter -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/M6TBD-Slot-1-A-Motherboard-NEW-w-Backplate-/201485858753?hash=item2ee97e37c1:g:NekAAOSwhkRWcIsw

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Slot-1-to-Socket-370-Adapter-Intel-Socket-370-PPGA-FC-PGA-Card-/222088879613?hash=item33b5875dfd:g:SXQAAOSwVghXEl0x

http://thoughtsfactory.org/manuals/M6TBD_User_Manual.pdf

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the board actually has a clock multiplier up to 5x for 100mhz bus speed so it might support a pentium iii 500mhz katmai even though i couldn't find any reference to any p3 processors, though that is a little slow for me still, i heard that the slot 1 to socket 370 adapters may or may not come with the internal voltage regulator so im weary on using those at it may be a hit or miss thing. where are those cheaper new socket 370 boards with isa slots lol. that's what im looking for lol.

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does anyone know if the universal agp 8x/4x listed graphics cards will work on a agp 3.3 volt slot ( original seattle 440bx motherboard with agp 1.0 specifications i believe, or to be more specific, the M6TBD motherboard i referenced to? ). i tried to google search agp compatibility but couldn't find enough liable information, i tried to look at 3.3 volt only cards or agp 1.0 cards (2x and 1x apparently) but im seeing that they are only like 8 MB - 16 MB of video memory which is too little for newer games like return to castle wolfenstein and other uses that i would like the computer to have enough performance for. i need the graphics card to have 64 MB of video memory, preferably a geforce3 ti 200 / 500, geforce2 or geforce4 440mx i suppose which apparently seem to have good dos compatibility and would have enough performance for other things too. also couldn't really get a clear answer on whether or not conventional pci 2.2 cards would work in pci 2.1 slots. so basically, i would like to use the motherboard below possibly ( although options may change quickly ), with the geforce4 440mx 64 MB agp card listed below, the wireless pci card, and the pci usb card adapter, otherwise, i guess i would have to use a newer chipset motherboard that possibly has isa slots that supports agp 2.0+, pci 2.2, etc, although there is ONE board in specific that i have under watch but i don't want to anyone to know lol  -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/M6TBD-Slot-1-A-Motherboard-NEW-w-Backplate-/201485858753?hash=item2ee97e37c1:g:NekAAOSwhkRWcIsw

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Albatron-NVIDIA-GeForce4-MX-440-MX480E-64-MB-DDR-SDRAM-AGP-DVI-VGA-Svideo-/121110389634?hash=item1c32bde382:g:q-oAAMXQ-3NRjZkI

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833156130

https://www.bigboxlive.com/startech-com-7-port-pci-usb-card-adapter-pciusb7?language=en&currency=USD

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well i ordered the rest of the parts now, there is some things that may not work in which i would need to spend more money, but if so, hopefully it's limited to only the optional stuff like the pci usb card for connecting to the front usb ports of the computer case which i don't need absolutely, the pci wireless adapter which either may not work because of it being in reality only a pci 2.2 card, even though it does mention pci 2.1 AND pci 2.2. also the processor may not work ( pentium iii 450mhz 100mhz fsb katmai, the model number is a costa rica model and i couldn't match it with the same stepping that someone else got working on a similar motherboard, there is no information for the model that the ebay user gave me ). also unsure of the cpu retention bracket as i never even used a slot 1 setup and if this would be compatible with the cpu or for the intended purpose i would need it for. also ordered a agp 4x/2x video card ( universal type ) which physically will fit but still unsure on whether or not it will work, and i couldn't find out if the motherboard supports agp 2x, only that it can operate in 66mhz and 133mhz but i couldn't find out what that means. so in other words, i think i would be putting on a agp 2.0 video card onto a agp 1.0 slot in other clarifications. the isa sound card i ordered is a "cheaper" design and i noticed that the length on the pins seems to be a little shorter compared to the other ones i compared, and i couldn't find out if there is different types of isa ports so im just gonna assume its compatible still with the isa slot im gonna use. also ordered a lower rpm quieter fan to be used in replacement for the original cpu fan but i heard also something to do with newer fans acting weird in older systems because the system gets confused with these lower voltage or lower rpm fans? and lastly, the (3) sticks of 128 MB memory is the last thing im worried about not working.

when first turning on the computer and testing it out, i'm not gonna install the pci add on cards, because it would be easier to diagnosis any problems.

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  • 2 weeks later...

lots of updates, first, the pentium iii 450mhz cpu worked, the model number is sl35d, no hanging issues and i didn't need to install a pentium ii and apply any bios updates to get it to work properly. the hard drive wd blue 160 GB im using is limited to just under 8 GB partition in fdisk but im fine with that, i suppose there may be settings in the bios that can or were able to bypass the 8 GB problem but thats enough space for me to work with. i initially couldn't get the system to work with the ss-401ht psu, it wouldn't even attempt to turn on, i luckily had the original psu that came with the case and it worked right away, not sure what the problem was, it may or may not be related to the psu, but that's a different matter that i want to solve later.

im not sure if the via pci usb card is properly working or will work properly, regedit shows the pci ven as "PCI\VEN_1106&DEV_3104", i went ahead and looked at the inf files of xusbsupp and couldn't find the same id for the wdm file so i don't know if xusbsupp will install the drivers for the add on card, i looked at some drivers i found in 2002 and all of which mention windows 98 but not windows 95, although some driver packages had w95 in the initial download folder name, i'm not sure if i can trust that. i will try to find the oldest package or use one for later if xusbsupp doesn't install the driver. i just installed the operating system so i haven't installed any updates yet, just building the driver cd first and im just left with finding a driver for the pci usb card. i think i might use the "4.90.3000.2" driver version. also, in the manual it mentions to install the piix4 patch, from the package i found, it only lists up to windows 95 osr 2.1, some of the files are dated 1998 so i think the update still applies to osr 2.5, im gonna apply it probably. i do see a resource conflict in the device manager for the standard esdi hard disk controller with the isa sound card im using and when i tried to change it, it would only give me like 2-3 irq numbers and all of them were conflicts so i guess that piix4 patch is supposed to fix this?

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well it seems that the dev 3104 usb pci card was actually detected as dev 3038 and installed by xusbsupp and it is working now detecting usb drives, so i didn't need to install a seperate driver :), however, i still have that irq problem with the hard disk controller after applying that patch and even the newer inf update, i basically did almost all official updates so far, also, after installing the wifi driver, it messed up the pc, ( protection error at one point ), due to possibly a resource conflict which i haven't been able to fix, or it could be that the card simply doesn't work on w95? the driver did install fine, gave a blue screen after installing though mentioning an error having to do with vxd or ndis i think, but was indicated as working in device manager, as soon as i installed the client manager though, it freezed the pc and that's where the protection error came up after restarting, i think it might be a irq problem mixed with driver / application issues, irq 11 is used by the isa card, network card, display adapter i think, and usb i think, but i don't think any of them allow me to even change their irq? there is the manual and auto setting in bios for irq but im scared to use that, i feel like it will make things really hard to fix? i do have an older realtek utility for the wifi but i don't even see an uninstaller option in add or remove programs section so i guess i'll just have to work around the problem for a bit, and if all else fails, i can reinstall the os again and start fresh and try different methods. also interestingly, everest home edition shows the motherboard name as m6tbe instead of m6tbd that is physically imprinted on the motherboard itself.

Edited by cov3rt
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i gave up on trying to update the bios, im scared that i might corrupt the motherboard from a failed bios update, i couldn't find a bios update that was specifically for the m6tbd, although everest mentioned m6tbe, i wouldn't want to install the m6tbe bios update on this m6tbd board, i wanted to update the bios to see if maybe i could get the hdd to be detected at a higher size and maybe detect the cpu as p iii in post, but like they say, if the system is working fine, then you don't need to apply a bios update and the system has been working fine other than the wifi issue or some smaller stuff. i couldn't get the bios to update when trying to attempt so using the awdflash.exe or awd603.exe files, i don't remember the name but i used the m6tbe bios both ways, i tried to use awdflash or awd603 in 98SE boot disk but they just would say something like erase now! please wait. i turned off the system even though not recommended but nothing went wrong. i followed instructions exactly as mentioned on several sites with no success.

anyways, to get back to the other issues, i am going to do a fresh install of w95 again, this time, i might assign the irq manually in the bios but i don't know for sure, the only problem i seemed to have was the wifi which somehow corrupted the tcp/ip protocol, this was going by the fatal error, cannot read ip configuration error that was given by winipcfg after a certain point of fiddling with irq settings, reinstalling the driver for the wifi. i still don't know if this is a windows 95 related problem of just having a hard time with resource configuration, the driver not supported properly on w95, or if the card doesn't work properly on pci 2.1 slots which the motherboard may be using? i might go ahead and order a cisco 350 wireless pci adapter or a card that is 5 volt keyed only to see if maybe it's because these newer pci 2.2 cards don't work properly on older motherboards, even if the card's driver itself is supported. i somehow fixed that resource conflict or error code 10 of the standard esdi controller in device manager by installing the driver again, the way where you say no, i will select the driver, and just selected the only one that popped up and it was dated like 2015-16 and then the error code went away.

the isa sound card works fine, tested doom and wolf 3d and sound was fine, as well as windows sounds working good. i was trying to see if i could fine maybe an older version of the realtek wireless lan utility, i mean, the system freezed / gave an error and worked very slowly after i first installed the realtek 8180 wifi driver only, device manager did say it was working and winipcfg even had in the option box, but i don't know if it was when i installed the realtek wireless lan utility that the system was unable to tolerate to which caused the protection error or if the driver would have done the same, even if i didn't install that utility? the utility is called "RtWLanUI(v3.5.0.6)", i obtained it from the same page on realtek's site that had the driver mentioned for windows 95 and NT 4. i was thinking to maybe use a different wireless utility / third party utility that can work with the card as an another option, but that's with the assumption that the card will work right after installing the driver only and then restarting and not getting the protection error.

btw, the system is pretty fast with just a pentium iii 450mhz, but i suppose its because of the 384 MB ram and fast hard drive, i used hd tach 2.61 and it gave me 27 mbps read speed for the hard drive! although limited by ata 33 standard, it still runs pretty quick.

Edited by cov3rt
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now i swapped out the old tew-228pi wifi card with the cisco 350 wireless lan pci adapter, i changed the positioning of the pci slot too, the pci usb card is in the old wifi card slot and the new wifi card is in the old pci usb card slot now. i did get better results, i was able to get a working driver and also installed the cisco utility, although it doesn't have an option to scan for networks, it just connects to the nearest one with wep/wpa or open wifi which it did for mine. however, i still seem to have resource problems or which i believe have to do with resource problems. i received a blue screen error having to do with a general protection fault and fatal exception relating to some vxd file, what's interesting is at point of the system freezing and restarting the system, scandisk repaired some files, i checked device manager and noticed the wifi card decided to move to irq 5 from irq 3 which it originally was in. web browsing from any browsers was somewhat slow.

also, not sure why but youtube the site itself would take extremely long to load with opera 10.63 or would freeze, firefox 2.0.0.20 seemed fine in loading youtube, however both browsers, even with the flash 7 spoof file in the plugin folders would still not bring up the play button or allow playing videos, just a black screen. could this be related to some bug or glitch or resource problem with windows 95 or perhaps this flash 7 spoof simply doesn't work anymore on opera 10.63 or firefox 2.0.0.20? the system is almost complete other than these resource problems and youtube not working. could any of this have to do with the ISA card slowing the system down incredibly, having limitations in software, etc? it is the ess1869 isa sound card. i don't have any flash players installed in add or remove programs, only the plugin files in the necessary folders of the web browser programs.

also, is there any straightforward or simple way to free up resources in windows 95 that might help with these possible resource related issues that doesn't involve manually changing the settings in device manager? because i don't seem to have the best luck changing stuff there, it seems like the hardware is usually tied to a certain irq and just won't work when you try to change irqs ( system hangs at loading and requires going to safe mode to remove and redetect back to original settings ).

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IRQ changes are only allowed if the INF is set up for it (more than one allowable IRQ) AFAICR. And PCI2.2 won't wok in PCI2.1 - look up the "Compliance" info on that. Same goes for APMvsACPI and that's why Win95 has heartburn with many ACPI-Compliant Mobos and the BIOS has to be changed to APM. In addition, many Mobos will shove PCI-Slot#1 into VGA-slot IRQ's (brain hurts right now, can't remember the term). If you're working with an Older MoBo you're going to run into a scad of problems with "fixed" IRQ's. That's why Win95 was deemed a "Plug-And-Pray" OS.

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