A .psd file that is getting error message

[jumper]

My vote: 1st timers are not allowed to respond to 1st timers.

[Acheron]

My main issue is that when you speak of tandem teams operating I don't think it is enough to only ban the person who provides the answer, but also the person or bot who asks the question. For example in the other thread we see that PaavoNurminen is banned, probably for cross posting answers on mutiple boards. But the person or bot who asks the question on multiple boards does not get banned, in this case CharlesMorris.

 

Note that I'm using this as an example, as asking to get users banned is not up for discussion. It is up to the moderators to decide.

 

I'm not for keeping everything marked as spam on this board. Only to have a few of such topics archived and marked as SPAM for educational purposes, instead of deleting everything.

 

@Jumper, what's next is that spam bots will evolve to get around these limits. The problem is that it will make it much harder for regular users to start posting questions and getting answers on this and other message boards over time.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Acheron

[Tripredacus]

The problem is this. We can only surmise that the OP is part of a team, especially since they do not return to reply in the thread. BUT there is no way to be sure. We do know that people can be desperate for an answer and make a topic on many forums asking the same question, then not return to all of them when replies occur. This happens a lot and these are real people. Spam bots will reply to those topics too. Just because we can find the same question on google doesn't mean there isn't some site it was posted on and that was where the OP continued to post on. Not everything shows up on google.

 

I have talked to other forum admins and some do flag the OP as well as the respondant. However because there is a chance that the OP is a real person, I don't want to run the risk of reporting a legit user, their email address and their home or work IP address to a spam service. That is what we do, not just banning users. I have had to personally deal with people who have had their information show up on a blacklist somewhere and it is not a fun time for them.

[jaclaz]

My vote: 1st timers are not allowed to respond to 1st timers.

Yep, that would be very logical , but there are two issues with that.

#1 the (very few) altruistic people *like*:

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/172296-the-best-third-party-parental-control/

might feel censored

#2 the "replying spammer" may make a couple of posts of the "This is cool!" or "Thanks man, interesting stuff" on a couple "random" threads and then he/she/it wouldn't be anymore a first timer, so you will need to put a "limit", which is not anymore 1 post but maybe 2 or 3 and then legitimate users will as well be frustrated by not being able to post a senceful opinion or a valid answer only because the thread was started by someone at his/her/its first (or second or third) post. 

 

The only mitigation would probably be to make compulsory to make a post here:

http://www.msfn.org/board/forum/76-introduce-yourself/

AND post a reply to the welcome (but this will also make admins/mods obligated to reply there and to do so in a timely fashion).

 

I don't think there is a good solution for this issue. 

 

jaclaz

[Acheron]

So basically it is a problem that some users have bad netiquette by cross posting their questions online. I think we need to educate those online users to have some patience when asking questions online and not expect an answer immediately. Reporting them to a spam service may be hard but it is the only way to get users to actually change their behavior online.

 

Maybe you can send a warning first to their registered email address, that the exact same questions is posted on multiple boards and looks suspicious. Give them a week to respond and then decide what further actions to take. Maybe only giving a ban without reporting them to the spam list is enough, if you don't have complete evidence.

 

In this case I noticed a strange behaviour:

 

Interestingly SilasSpencer registered on both MSFN and the AnswerBank February 9th and posted the first question on each site 6 days later.

 

I think this is enough evidence. Why would a normal user register on both sites on the exact same day and wait 6 days on each site before asking the exact same question?

Edited February 20, 2016 by Acheron

[jaclaz]

So basically it is a problem that some users have bad netiquette by cross posting their questions online. I think we need to educate those online users to have some patience when asking questions online and not expect an answer immediately. Reporting them to a spam service may be hard but it is the only way to get users to actually change their behavior online.

Well, even here we need to make a distinction, there are a few people that panic and in the haste of a serious issue multi-post on half of the internet, this is understandable, they are doing this only when they have  this serious issue and they readily understand how this is counter-productive and silly once told and never do it again. (no real problem/issue)

 

Then there are a few people that - no matter how many times you tell them, and no matter in how many different ways you try to "educate" them - will continue to do that as they believe (wrongly) that this approach will provide more and better replies.

Even if they are totally wrong and curiously stubborn with this approach, while one may ban them from the one or the other board, still they don't IMHO deserve to be tagged as "spammers" on a worldwide network.

 

More or less it would be a form of censorship, effectively preventing them to join a number of places that make use of these SPAM listings , nothing much different from marking them with the scarlet letter an S in this case .

 

jaclaz

[Acheron]

Yes, but I think the problem is that the issue here is not the average user cross posting, but advanced spam bots operating in teams to affect Google search results. In order to defend against these I do think we need more strict rules and if there is strong evidence we are dealing with a spam bot or intentional spammer it warrants to take appropriate actions.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Acheron

[jaclaz]

There is no issue that need a change to the Rules, then, users that are definitely the "second" bot (the one that usually provide the link to the "miracle" tool that should solve the problem of the "first" bot) are already banned/tagged etc. (besides removing the link).

Where it is clear - really clear. beyond any reasonable doubt - that the OP is the "first" bot then the thread is anyway deleted or hidden, but if there is even a remote probability that the first poster may be a real person nothing is done.

 

You have to understand that a nick and an IP address while a very valuable asset for a "real person" are not of particular value for SPAMmers, if the nick is blacklisted they simply generate a new one and almost the same goes for the IP, and you cannot really-really ban an IP unless there are very serious reasons, while I don't know for sure how these things work, I can well imagine that these SPAMmers may use some mechanism to proxy or spoof their real IP, so maybe what you ban is a service that other people may use (legitimately).

 

In these times of Wi-Fi everywhere, think of the damage to the "ecosystem" you could make if you ban accidentally (say) the IP of (say) a Starbuck coffee shop or the one of an Internet Cafè pr similar piblic or semi-public access point, you prevent a number of people from accessing the site while at the same time doing very little against the actual SPAMmer.

 

jaclaz

Edited February 20, 2016 by jaclaz

[Tripredacus]

In all cases since this became "a thing" the spam responders have different IPs than the OP. So this isn't a case of 2 people in an office making posts to each other. The IP doesn't get blacklisted but it could. That is something the spam service handles. It also handles how it decides to permit users to register on the forum. I'm sure its a complicated process.

 

Anyways, i would wholly expect that spammers are using TOR to do their dirty work. And they don't seem to actually be bots that do this. They go about and fill out profile information somewhat randomly, with exception to that "flap" of Vista Business types we had awhile back.

 

Anyways, I'm going to move this topic into Site & Forum issues.