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bookie32

Official - Windows 10 Worst Crap Ever!

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Not sure about it being worthless, I'm sure that the speed increase is technically there. In many circumstances it come down to the user not being able to tell the difference in launching a program with or without Superfetch on an SSD... or even on any sort of disk. Does Superfetch really make Notepad open faster? How can you tell? What about long-to-load programs like Adobe Illustrator or Photoshop?

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i last used superfetch back on windows 7 when i had a hard drive i only remember it using lots of ram, programs opened a little bit faster but not much.

i disabled it when i switched to a ssd for windows.

though this site says windows 8.x and 10 disable it when your have windows on a ssd.

https://www.howtogeek.com/256859/dont-waste-time-optimizing-your-ssd-windows-knows-what-its-doing/

Edited by RanCorX2

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yes it is useless on SSD
prefetch or superfetch (that super had to be hype for vista lol)
was just a way to use fast RAM instead rotating HDD

but SSD isn't rotational/mechanical, its now just chip as RAM is
even win7 when detects SSD automatically kills superfetch service

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59 minutes ago, RanCorX2 said:

don't forget readyboost, i never saw any gains from that either.

Well, maybe you didn't buy any of the (initially way overpriced, in some cases with double or triple than "street prices" for corresponding devices) devices that were certified/sponsored by MS.

Gains were only visible if you had in Vista the minimum amount of RAM MS put in requirements, 512 MB (you know that number that you need to double to have a minimally working system and quadruple to have a fully working one).

jaclaz

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Readyboost did actually work. I even used it for awhile. The problem with it was that it wasn't worth the cost of devices to use it. By that I mean that it would kill USB storage quite fast and eventually it was easier to add more RAM than having to buy more USB keys.

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3 hours ago, Tripredacus said:

Readyboost did actually work. I even used it for awhile. The problem with it was that it wasn't worth the cost of devices to use it. By that I mean that it would kill USB storage quite fast and eventually it was easier to add more RAM than having to buy more USB keys.

Ow, comeon :), are you telling us that this guy Matt Ayers (Program Manager in the Microsoft Windows Client Performance group and "owner" of the ReadyBoost feature) LIED to us? :w00t: :ph34r::

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/tomarcher/2006/06/02/readyboost-qa/

Quote

From Matt Ayers: 

"I'm the Program Manager in the Microsoft Windows Client Performance group and own the ReadyBoost feature. I wanted to give some offical answers based on the excellent questions and discussions that I've seen in this blog, to date. Also, I'll be using this as a starting point for the official ReadyBoost FAQ.

Overall, as many posters have pointed out, the feature is designed to improve small random I/O for people who lack the expansion slots, money, and or technical expertise to add additional RAM. As y’all know, adding RAM is still the best way to relieve memory pressure.

Thanks, again, for your interest, questions and ideas."

The key is in the bolded part. :whistle:

Quote

Q: Won't this wear out the drive?
A: Nope. We're aware of the lifecycle issues with flash drives and are smart about how and when we do our writes to the device. Our research shows that we will get at least 10+ years out of flash devices that we support.

And right from day one (including the above statement by the "owner") it made very little sense, compared to getting an adequate amount of RAM, and tests confirmed that:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/2163/6

Quote

ReadyBoost makes a very significant impact on performance here. With 4GB of flash dedicated to ReadyBoost, we saw an increase in performance of over 47%. However for the cost of a 4GB flash drive you could probably upgrade to 1GB of memory which results in an even larger performance gain. That said, if you don't want to open up your system, ReadyBoost does actually work.
 

I am including the reference as it makes clear that even at the time (end 2006/beginning 2007) there was not much of an economic advantage, only the advantage to not having to open the machine (and possibly a very few cases where upgrading the amount of RAM wasn't technically feasible), and anyway it was related only to low RAM configurations.

AND :

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/windows-vista-superfetch-and-readyboostanalyzed,1532-6.html

Quote

In short: Vista succeeds in utilizing existing resources and technology to provide more balanced performance.

The results are impressive: Using both features, Windows Vista shows off how it can effectively reduce application launch times to provide a better performance experience with your everyday software. At only 512 MB RAM, application launch times decrease from 9 seconds (OpenOffice Writer 2.1) and 10 seconds (Outlook 2007) to 2-4 seconds only. Adding our 1 GB USB 2.0 Flash stick helped to shorten launch times for these applications to 2-3 seconds only. The next conclusion is that Windows Vista with only 512 MB RAM is no fun at all, because applications start much faster only by having 1 GB of RAM. In fact, both Outlook 2007 and OpenOffice Writer 2.1 start even faster on a fresh Windows Vista installation than on our SuperFetch-trained and ReadyBoost-enabled system at only 512 MB.

...

Although the technology helps to make best use of what you already have, we recommend having at least 1 GB of RAM before you even think of installing Vista. Enthusiasts and power users should not start the Vista voyage with less than 2 GB RAM, because you'll not only want to provide memory space for SuperFetch; you should also think of your running applications. Give Vista as much memory as you can, and it will thank you by serving you quicker.

jaclaz 

Edited by jaclaz

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Still on HDD here. Memory allocation requests by applications have priority over SuperFetch cache, so I guess there's no need to panic over SuperFetch's memory usage. Also have to consider, if one wants to observe its effect, that it's learning patterns of what stuff user runs and surely those algorithms can't predict the unpredictable when user strays of the usual habits.

Purely anecdotal and non-scientific; after fresh install and running the same things daily, it may have shoved a second or two of startup time of your average program. By average, I mean something not as simple Notepad, but not a long loading program like Photoshop and newer Visual Studios neither. .NET programs might be interesting to measure, especially if they pull in various assemblies. Or any native application with a lot of DLLs.

Of course, you'd have to define "a lot"; DLLs vary in size and then there's also whether it can be loaded at its base address that will affect its load time. Historically, picking optimal base address for the DLL is one optimization, though it requires the developer to be aware of it as de facto toolchain (Visual Studio) doesn't do anything to pick the optimal address; you get the default unless you change it. Another factor affecting startup time is PE loader scanning compatibility databases and applying compatibility shims (if needed).

ReadyBoost; an interesting concept technically, albeit a bit silly as a long term solution. Reminds me of the ability to utilize SD card as a swap space on Android smartphones. I did experiment with that on my old Samsung Galaxy Mini and it helped significantly in keeping apps running instead of terminating them due to running low on memory. But, didn't want to reduce the SD card's lifetime, so in the end, I chose not to use it.

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20 hours ago, jaclaz said:

I am including the reference as it makes clear that even at the time (end 2006/beginning 2007) there was not much of an economic advantage, only the advantage to not having to open the machine (and possibly a very few cases where upgrading the amount of RAM wasn't technically feasible), and anyway it was related only to low RAM configurations.

I think I had tried it because a vendor gave us a bunch of "large" USB keys as a gift, or free crap when trying to sell a product. Indeed, it was only 2GB size and probably not on the MS supported devices list. And sure, when it ate that key up a few months later, 2GB USB keys were still quite expensive at the time.

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1 hour ago, Tripredacus said:

I think I had tried it because a vendor gave us a bunch of "large" USB keys as a gift, or free crap when trying to sell a product. Indeed, it was only 2GB size and probably not on the MS supported devices list. And sure, when it ate that key up a few months later, 2GB USB keys were still quite expensive at the time.

Yep, at the time I got some 50 or 100 of them for free (but most probably it was a couple years later, at a time the cost of the sticks had plummeted) when subscribing I don't remember which advertisement contract.

If the ones you got were similar to the ones I got, they were bulk-bulk, what is called "promotional twister", loosely like:

https://www.flashbay.com/flash-drives/twister

Not only, after having had a few of them that failed for no apparent reason, I tracked the appropriate "Manufacturer Tool" to see if I could revive those that had failed.

All fine and dandy, found the right tool, made a total factory reset/wiping of a few sticks (like 2 or 3 out of 6 or 7) succesfully,

Then on the fourth one the tool didn't work.

Nor on the fifth.

The manufacturer tool couldn't "connect" to the controller. :w00t:

The tool worked fine for a few other ones (although not all of them could be "revived").

Next time I had some spare time, I re-analyzed the two that weren't connecting and found out they had a different controller inside.

Since I couldn't believe what the USB Genius was showing, I opened the case of a few failed ones and confirmed that although the external case/looks were the same, inside some there was a completely different controller/chip (different make).

jaclaz

 

Edited by jaclaz

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Yes we had gotten a bunch of keys from that design from Intel, all 2GB size. They all seemed to be very slow to write data too, and I eventually gave all of mine away to other co-workers and opted to use some much-faster 1GB keys that were from a previous promotional campaign.

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I find it very difficult to come to grips wirh Windows 10.

My problem now is how to access and use storage media connected to the machine. I connect an external DVD drive and want to be able to copy files from the harddisk of the Win 10 machine to the external DVD. I don't know how to do it.  What is the problem?

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4 hours ago, Roffen said:

What is the problem?

Winblows 10 is :P

  • Upvote 1

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6 hours ago, Roffen said:

I find it very difficult to come to grips wirh Windows 10.

My problem now is how to access and use storage media connected to the machine. I connect an external DVD drive and want to be able to copy files from the harddisk of the Win 10 machine to the external DVD. I don't know how to do it.  What is the problem?

"This PC" would work to do what you want to do.  The problem is finding it on Win 10.  It is located under the "Windows System" program link.

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