Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble

MSFN is made available via donations, subscriptions and advertising revenue. The use of ad-blocking software hurts the site. Please disable ad-blocking software or set an exception for MSFN. Alternatively, register and become a site sponsor/subscriber and ads will be disabled automatically. 


bookie32

Official - Windows 10 Worst Crap Ever!

Recommended Posts

So Windows 10 really is a nightmare. It has wasted way too much of my time since installing it. Windows as a service, turns out to be Windows as 'your' servitude. The license agreement basically states that your hardware will be controlled by microsoft as long as you run their software. So if they are using my hardware as their surveillance system, and I have to maintain it for them when they keep forcing updates that break stuff, then shouldn't they be paying me?

Personally, I think they are in some very gray territory legally. Really, I think they are way beyond grey. What they are doing is illegal in a dozen different ways at least. But the courts seem to be behind them, as the courts have been siding with corporations who have precluded class action lawsuits through their licensing agreements. The courts allowing licensing agreements to rule out class action lawsuits is basically a license for the corporations to get away with just about anything, no matter how shady. Because individual lawsuits will generally lack the financial and legal fortitude to go up against giants, and in those rare cases that they do, the cost of a settlement for the giants will be negligible and will not serve to curb their practices in any significant manner.

Another thing that really makes me wonder too, is how shady are the enterprise licensing agreements. I have not gone through them in great detail. I mean currently in enterprise, it is possible to disable telemetry (which actually only sets it to a minimal level, so the setting of 0 is a bit misleading). It is also possible to redirect all telemetry data internally - though again, that does not really account for all telemetry, only some forms of telemetry. To really shut down all telemetry and gain complete control of updates is entirely possible, but it is also a lengthy and convoluted process which is liable to break some things, and seems intentionally designed to make it possible for admins who are not extremely thorough to miss something.

The question though, is do the enterprise license agreements guarantee these 'features' of being able to control the software's penchant for phoning home? Just because the software allows these customizations at present, is there any guarantee that it will do so after the next update? Seems like some enterprises may be lulled into a false sense of security, by Microsoft including the ability to manage and control services, task schedules, logging, and set group policies according to their needs, rather than Microsoft's agenda. But is there any legally binding promise from Microsoft that such functionality will be supported in the future? Seems like a massive trap to me, and smart enterprises would probably do better to seriously look into other OSes at this point. I wish some of the big players would pour some resources into bringing ReactOS to maturity. That could be brilliant.

It also seems to me that other companies who are supporting Microsoft's push for world domination, like Adobe, nVidia, Intel, Wacom, Lenovo, Dell, Etc.. Should really think twice at this point, because the moment MS doesn't need them anymore...

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, multiversion said:

So Windows 10 really is a nightmare. It has wasted way too much of my time since installing it. Windows as a service, turns out to be Windows as 'your' servitude. The license agreement basically states that your hardware will be controlled by microsoft as long as you run their software. So if they are using my hardware as their surveillance system, and I have to maintain it for them when they keep forcing updates that break stuff, then shouldn't they be paying me?

Personally, I think they are in some very gray territory legally. Really, I think they are way beyond grey. What they are doing is illegal in a dozen different ways at least. But the courts seem to be behind them, as the courts have been siding with corporations who have precluded class action lawsuits through their licensing agreements. The courts allowing licensing agreements to rule out class action lawsuits is basically a license for the corporations to get away with just about anything, no matter how shady. Because individual lawsuits will generally lack the financial and legal fortitude to go up against giants, and in those rare cases that they do, the cost of a settlement for the giants will be negligible and will not serve to curb their practices in any significant manner.

Another thing that really makes me wonder too, is how shady are the enterprise licensing agreements. I have not gone through them in great detail. I mean currently in enterprise, it is possible to disable telemetry (which actually only sets it to a minimal level, so the setting of 0 is a bit misleading). It is also possible to redirect all telemetry data internally - though again, that does not really account for all telemetry, only some forms of telemetry. To really shut down all telemetry and gain complete control of updates is entirely possible, but it is also a lengthy and convoluted process which is liable to break some things, and seems intentionally designed to make it possible for admins who are not extremely thorough to miss something.

The question though, is do the enterprise license agreements guarantee these 'features' of being able to control the software's penchant for phoning home? Just because the software allows these customizations at present, is there any guarantee that it will do so after the next update? Seems like some enterprises may be lulled into a false sense of security, by Microsoft including the ability to manage and control services, task schedules, logging, and set group policies according to their needs, rather than Microsoft's agenda. But is there any legally binding promise from Microsoft that such functionality will be supported in the future? Seems like a massive trap to me, and smart enterprises would probably do better to seriously look into other OSes at this point. I wish some of the big players would pour some resources into bringing ReactOS to maturity. That could be brilliant.

It also seems to me that other companies who are supporting Microsoft's push for world domination, like Adobe, nVidia, Intel, Wacom, Lenovo, Dell, Etc.. Should really think twice at this point, because the moment MS doesn't need them anymore...

You make....in my opinion....som valid points and that is why I am so negative towards Windows 10 or should I say Microsoft as a company...not forgetting the fact that all the crap with windows 10 and how it was being pushed on us...only came to light because of the diligence of those who actually read the agreements that anyone upgrading to Windows 10 were saying (not knowingly) that Microsoft have the right to spy on so that the American government have an extra weapon against us.....

Of course my ramblings could be taken as paranoia....but my response to that would have to be....isn't that a typical trait of the American government...

Sorry....getting off track there....;)

 

bookie32

Edited by bookie32
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/4/2018 at 5:30 AM, bookie32 said:

You make....in my opinion....some valid points and that is why I am so negative towards Windows 10 or should I say Microsoft as a company...not forgetting the fact that all the crap with windows 10 and how it was being pushed on us...only came to light because of the diligence of those who actually read the agreements that anyone upgrading to Windows 10 were saying (not knowingly) that Microsoft have the right to spy on so that the American government have an extra weapon against us.....

Of course my ramblings could be taken as paranoia....but my response to that would have to be....isn't that a typical trait of the American government...

Sorry....getting off track there....;)

 

bookie32

An interesting evaluation of corporation and government tracks, libertarian is a word that comes to mind.  With MS, the apparent solution is don't use the product or change the product so that it can't do the allegedly illegal software tasks.  I like the thought that payment for the use of owned hardware is a viable concept.  Keep an eye on the government elections this year.  In the US trenches, there seems to be a change occurring.  Similarly, that may be why so many people are changing the company that they use to get their computers.  There also seems to be more software available to throttle what information comes and goes to their computers.  Remember, secure mode is "powered off."  :cool:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another big problem with the direction MS is taking here, is that the behavior of the OS is all but indistinguishable from various forms of malware, to all but the most expert. Svchost is talking to this IP and that IP without any user input or user understanding. When I look up those IP addresses I often find three things. One they belong to MS or Akamai, and two, they have been reported by numerous people for abuse, malware, hacking, or some such. The third thing is that they are whitelisted as trusted by various authorities.

So on the one hand, Windows 10 is supposed to be the most secure windows yet. On the other hand, people are reporting its behavior and contact addresses as malware, because I think many of those people honestly can't tell the difference. They just see unexplained connections that they didn't initiate and don't seem tied to any legit programs they have installed and think they are hacked or infected. Some report the IPs. Those who ask for help are told that it is the OS, and it is supposed to do that. So now they are probably going to just allow svchost to connect to whatever random IPs it wants to, whenever it wants to, with zero understanding of why (because the OS is just supposed to do that). That just doesn't sound like the most secure OS at all... Not to mention all the plethora of little things that are broken, and the updates which fail to fix those things but do manage to break more little things, and if you know anything about computer security, you know that the amount of bugs present in a piece of software, is generally a decent benchmark of the number of potentially exploitable security holes.

Personally, I think we should be petitioning those authorities who have whitelisted MS' and Akamai's IP ranges as trusted to remove them from those whitelists. They are using our hardware and our bandwidth for their own purposes with practically zero transparency or consent. Yeah, I know the license agreement is a form of consent but in many ways it really isn't, because we can't consent to things which are not fully explained or disclosed, we are not told what is being sent by which processes to which IPs, and I believe that legally speaking consent without understanding is not generally binding. The lack of transparency here in fact introduces increased risks, which may well lead to actual damages, due to it being virtually impossible for average users to differentiate between the behavior of windows and malware. They are conducting themselves like trojans, and botnets, and subjecting people to needless risk, and should accordingly be removed from whitelists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/5/2018 at 2:05 PM, multiversion said:

Personally, I think we should be petitioning those authorities who have whitelisted MS' and Akamai's IP ranges as trusted to remove them from those whitelists.

Interesting proposal.  It brings to mind some of Tom Clancy's books that focus on a governmental "Net Force" that is directed to correct such allegedly illegal practices.  There are quite a few voters in this country that plan to do some personnel changes in our government this voting season.  Some of the current staff seems to think that such practices are under control of the highest bidder.

In the mean time, spreading the word as you have is the start.  Many people have already decided not to use the "Worst Crap Ever" as an operating system.  I helped a friend stay on Windows 7 that had some real problems.  Malwarebytes found 3079 "malware files" on the PC, the most I've ever seen at one time.  Uninstalled a program that was causing windows explorer to abort/crash.  Also, did fundamental security blocking with Ghostery on the browsers.  This forum has had great solutions from people to lock down Win 10 to keep the issues you mentioned to a minimum or to zero.  I prefer the "powered off" secure mode on the Win 10 test PC.  :cool:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what was your friend doing to get that much malware installed?

i found ghostery pointless if you have ublock as it does the same blocking, it also made some of the browsers i tested it on sluggish because of the unoptimized plugin, didn't work well on IE11....but hey what does?

i use opera + popup blocker for chrome + ublock origin + ublock origin extra + ubscope + df youtube distraction free + tampermonkey with anti adblock killer & iridium for youtube

don't need a hosts file with ublock.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

7/6-18

Sorry about the server crash, but good to see the site up again, xper!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I do now is only install a new rtm builds and don't bother with updates, the system is crap in windows 10 and too intrusive, don't bother signing up to insiders either. Instead look for direct downloads of rtm isos and create a usb install.

avoid the store, windows update and uup, download rtm builds from other sources for a less painful experience.

Edited by RanCorX2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/8/2018 at 12:59 PM, RanCorX2 said:

What I do now is only install a new rtm builds and don't bother with updates, the system is crap in windows 10 and too intrusive, don't bother signing up to insiders either. Instead look for direct downloads of rtm isos and create a usb install.

avoid the store, windows update and uup, download rtm builds from other sources for a less painful experience.

What I do now is ignore this crap called an OS and stick to Windows 7...I spend enough time fixing customers computers with it installled....

This latest update starts with tons of questions and many of my customers are freaking out because they just don't understand what to do...and even if I try to expalain on the telephone...doesn't always work....

Shame on Microsoft with all this crap!!!

 

bookie32

Edited by bookie32
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im installing server 2016 on vmware enable hyper-v on it cos for same reason it wont enable on host

install the updates. then deploy on it to hdd , watching the newer versions rs2-4 looks like hobby work to me

and eating user's comfort zone bit by bit doesnt appeal to me, and no real bug sorting out , its looks like a mean/non-prime releases between rs1 to rs5 [ server 2019 ], ms ads those releases but not really make the effort, and center their effort toward next prime version in the background

Edited by aviv00

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/11/2018 at 10:23 PM, bookie32 said:

What I do now is ignore this crap called an OS and stick to Windows 7...I spend enough time fixing customers computers with it installled....

This latest update starts with tons of questions and many of my customers are freaking out because they just don't understand what to do...and even if I try to expalain on the telephone...doesn't always work....

Shame on Microsoft with all this crap!!!

 

bookie32

"The Taming of the Crap"

A neighbor has an HP laptop with With 10 and yes, he thought that all his computer world was lost.  The normal desktop was gone (The Sky is Falling!).  Just a normal bit of crap.  Tablet mode on a non-tablet PC.  However, the OS had never been Userized.  Win update had faulted trying to go to 1803 from 1709.  Some original app software that came with the new PC was blocking the update to go cleanly.  Housekeeping to clean out the offender fixed that.  Brought in other browsers with Ghostery to start the PC lock down.  Removed other outdated apps, ran Malwarebytes and Windows Defender and surprisingly both ran error free.  Added several apps to the Taskbar for easy user control.  Updated to Version 1803, OS Build 17134.81.  Then went into Settings and turned off most of the info gathering and free roam app software (Run in background stuff).  Helped neighbor understand how to use his now locked down PC.  He was happy that he didn't lose his pictures and stuff.  Yes, would have done the Win 7 thing but that was not an option so his Win 10 is now good enough for his needs.

 

Now, on the home front.  The MacBook of late 2006 vintage was a BootCamp Windows Insider test laptop.  Did put an SSD in it but it is maxed out at OS X 10.7.5 and it runs faster than most of the Dell laptops also used for Insider testing here.  However, decided to "Retire" the BootCamp Windows 10 to the released 1803, 17134.81.  Used Media Creation Tool to bring down what I thought was the released Win 10 but it installed as 1803, 17134.1.  Found that there is an update, KB400403, which I downloaded and installed.  Now it is at the normal 1803 release level.  Did all of the lock down procedures from above as well as a CCleaner run.  Now the challenge is to withdraw the PC from Insider mode.  I'm led to believe that the withdrawal procedure can take a few weeks.  Just another adventure on "The Crap Trail."  :cool:

 

PS:  Windows 10 Insider Preview releases ran the cleanest and fastest on the Apple MacBook.  :thumbup

Edited by BudwS
Typo corrections.
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Microsoft are slowly and steadily making the decisions NOT to upgrade to Win 10 on one's hardware more and more difficult to live with...

What do I mean?

I finally got to a point where I could test the latest Windows Updates on my Win 8.1 workstation.

This is a top-end Dell machine that runs stably, facilitating my software and business management work, for months on end.

TLDR:  I experienced a REAL 8% drop in performance to bring it up to the current patch level, vs. keeping it at last December's patch level.

This is EXACTLY what I experienced with Windows 7 on another machine as well.

And these measurements, taken by looking at the overall times the machines take to get through some big regularly scheduled jobs, such as software builds or backups, are with the Spectre and Meltdown mitigations turned off!  The performance impact is MUCH WORSE with the mitigations enabled, which is the default.  Something like 30% worse.

I'm  considering backing out these updates from my Win 8.1 system.  The difference in price at the level I'm doing computing to get 8% more performance is not insignificant!

Hardly anyone is talking about this...  Are we all SO willing to see our machines run into the ground just to feel "safer" from the unknown?  All the while Windows 10 - you know, the one with the largest number of vulnerabilities uncovered each month - is touted as "the most secure Windows ever"?

What price security?

-Noel

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, NoelC said:

Hardly anyone is talking about this...  Are we all SO willing to see our machines run into the ground just to feel "safer" from the unknown?  All the while Windows 10 - you know, the one with the largest number of vulnerabilities uncovered each month - is touted as "the most secure Windows ever"?

What price security?

-Noel

The most secure windows ever.... with Microsoft watching our every move...in what way is it secure....lol

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, bookie32 said:

with Microsoft watching our every move...in what way is it secure

simple: microsoft can see when people are writing malware and do something against them :-P

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@NoelC are you comparing OS states from before vs after the Spectre/Meltdown updates?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   1 member

×
×
  • Create New...