Windows 10 - Deeper Impressions

[Formfiller]

Well, at least Microsoft's EULA is totally frank about it. They outright say that they collect your financial data. Unlike untrustworthy as***** companies like Google.

 

We collect data about you such as your age, gender, country and preferred language. [...] the stocks you track in a finance app

 

[...]If you open a file, we may collect information about the file, the application used to open the file, and how long it takes any use [of]it for purposes such as improving performance, or [if you]enter text, we may collect typed characters, we may collect typed characters[..]

 

 

How the heck is Microsoft supposed to do all this if you would block their IP adresses?!

 

Ungrateful entitled whiners! Why aren't you complaining about your iPhones? Microsoft has finally woken up and the terror-reign of Apple is OVER!

Edited August 13, 2015 by Formfiller

[NoelC]

 

A Traffic Analysis of Windows 10

 

"... While the inital reflex may be to block all of the above servers via HOSTS, it turns out this won't work: Microsoft has taken the care to hardcode certain IPs, meaning that there is no DNS lookup and no HOSTS consultation. However, if the above servers are blocked via HOSTS, Windows will pretend to be crippled by continuously throwing errors, while still maintaining data collection in the background. Other than an increase in errors, HOSTS blocking did not affect the volume, frequency, or rate of data being transmitted. ..."

 

I guess the only way to totally disable Cortana and telemetry is to find those IPs and implement a router-based firewall blocking those IPs. Unless MS is truly evil and hosts Windows Update and Microsoft.com on the same IP range, but that can be seen as both a curse and a blessing.

 

 

That's disturbing.  Off to learn more about what my router can do, and how to do it...

 

-Noel

[ralcool]

Well, this is just peachy.

 

I ran the I_dont_want_win10_tool last week or so on my Win8.1Media Centre

 

I was checking the daily dl usage just now.. and wtf... high data usage.

 

So, being the only system I trusted to take care of its updates... I didn't set anything in gpedit.

 

 

So apparently now, the update to Win10 pro is 'important'

 

I have a fresh new $windows.~bt\sources folder and an uninstalled copy of Win10 I didn't NEED.

(I already created an iso from mid july release)

 

Now my monthly usage has grown to 38%.. not shown, but you can see the damage on the 12th.

 

A secretive overnight download. Thanks M$.

 

-sean

 

 

[Formfiller]

 

 

A Traffic Analysis of Windows 10

 

"... While the inital reflex may be to block all of the above servers via HOSTS, it turns out this won't work: Microsoft has taken the care to hardcode certain IPs, meaning that there is no DNS lookup and no HOSTS consultation. However, if the above servers are blocked via HOSTS, Windows will pretend to be crippled by continuously throwing errors, while still maintaining data collection in the background. Other than an increase in errors, HOSTS blocking did not affect the volume, frequency, or rate of data being transmitted. ..."

 

I guess the only way to totally disable Cortana and telemetry is to find those IPs and implement a router-based firewall blocking those IPs. Unless MS is truly evil and hosts Windows Update and Microsoft.com on the same IP range, but that can be seen as both a curse and a blessing.

 

 

That's disturbing.  Off to learn more about what my router can do, and how to do it...

 

-Noel

 

 

If this stuff is true, then the sanest choice would be stop "being current" with Windows.

 

Even if you create the perfect blocking rules in your router, with a single update MS can introduce more spying with bazillions of more IP-adresses to block. Their EULA, Azure, and the updater mechanisms in W10 makes this all perfectly possible.

 

Sure you can cripple Windows Update completely, but in this case, staying on a pre-W10 version is the far better choice than nuking the updater AND trying to tame W10 left and right and on the router.

[NoelC]

Well, to be fair I've not thrown the switch and upgraded any important systems; it's still only on a test VM here for now.

 

This kind of thing could keep me from throwing that switch, though I'm not convinced it's as bad as being described, nor that it's not feasible to block the spying activity.  There's no way in hell enterprise would agree to that kind of data upload, and Microsoft can't afford to alienate business - so Windows has to have a way to turn it off.

 

I'm presently running monitoring activity to see if it's anything like what's described in the linked article on localghost.org.

 

-Noel

[dhjohns]

I have been using Windows 10 as my main drive for quite a while now.  It just seems to get better, and better.  I really enjoy the live tiles, and especially Cortana.  It is very easy to use her, and I set her to search with Google instead of Bing, so life is good.  All the apps I have tried seem to be very well written, and I do use a few apps.  I like the Weather Channel, and Twitter apps especially.  My OneDrive works very nicely, and I don't have to worry about my important files getting lost due to some sort of computer failure.  Windows Updates works great, too.  It seems much more reliable than especially Windows 7.  Remember in Windows 7 it would show 0% for a long time?  In Windows 10 it seems as if they are always ready to install!  It is a very nice, and smooth OS.  There is plenty to enjoy about it.  It is very good that Microsoft is tying it into the Cloud more, and more.  Welcome the future!

[Kelsenellenelvian]

I have been using Windows 10 as my main drive for quite a while now. It just seems to get better, and better. I really enjoy the live tiles, and especially Cortana. It is very easy to use her, and I set her to search with Google instead of Bing, so life is good. All the apps I have tried seem to be very well written, and I do use a few apps. I like the Weather Channel, and Twitter apps especially. My OneDrive works very nicely, and I don't have to worry about my important files getting lost due to some sort of computer failure. Windows Updates works great, too. It seems much more reliable than especially Windows 7. Remember in Windows 7 it would show 0% for a long time? In Windows 10 it seems as if they are always ready to install! It is a very nice, and smooth OS. There is plenty to enjoy about it. It is very good that Microsoft is tying it into the Cloud more, and more. Welcome the future!

Now it all makes sense. Does MS pay you well?

[Formfiller]

There's no way in hell enterprise would agree to that kind of data upload, and Microsoft can't afford to alienate business

 

They count on it that after W7 goes the dodo, even the enterprise will fly back to the mothership, no matter what, because there is no true competition.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Formfiller

[Techie007]

    Continuing into the world of spying, Microsoft has a new offer of "30 days of unlimited Groove music access".  The pertinent part is that when I click the link to view the offer, the Store app immediately opens over my web browser (Firefox 41.0a2 x64).  The actual web page loads as expected in the background.  I'm not sure what mechanism is being used to trigger the Store app, but I want to know how opening a webpage in Firefox can launch an app on my computer!  Either they are spying on my web browser, waiting for me to open certain pages (and if they're spying, certainly they are collecting and transmitting this data!), or there is some legitimate trigger (like a MIME or protocol trigger) on the page.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Techie007

[TELVM]

... They knew that people would try to hinder their spying, and took special care to prevent those protective measures from working. And moreover they took care to try to fool the user into beleving that his protection worked.    

 

Well of course my friend, that's how the game is played. Did you really expect otherwise come to this point?

 

[loblo]

 

... They knew that people would try to hinder their spying, and took special care to prevent those protective measures from working. And moreover they took care to try to fool the user into beleving that his protection worked.    

 

Well of course my friend, that's how the game is played. Did you really expect otherwise come to this point?

 

 

 

Yes, IMO especially because even if you manage to block every spyware feature, your IP will then be recorded in the worst category, the category of those who have got "something to hide"... potential criminal or terrorist...

[dhjohns]

 

I have been using Windows 10 as my main drive for quite a while now. It just seems to get better, and better. I really enjoy the live tiles, and especially Cortana. It is very easy to use her, and I set her to search with Google instead of Bing, so life is good. All the apps I have tried seem to be very well written, and I do use a few apps. I like the Weather Channel, and Twitter apps especially. My OneDrive works very nicely, and I don't have to worry about my important files getting lost due to some sort of computer failure. Windows Updates works great, too. It seems much more reliable than especially Windows 7. Remember in Windows 7 it would show 0% for a long time? In Windows 10 it seems as if they are always ready to install! It is a very nice, and smooth OS. There is plenty to enjoy about it. It is very good that Microsoft is tying it into the Cloud more, and more. Welcome the future!

Now it all makes sense. Does MS pay you well?

 

I don't get paid LOL.  I just use Windows 10 to its fullest potential, why don't you?

[Tripredacus]

Now it all makes sense. Does MS pay you well?

I don't get paid LOL.  I just use Windows 10 to its fullest potential, why don't you?

Related:

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/174165-bug-win10-and-wpi-873/#entry1103971

I won't use it either for the same reasons.

[jaclaz]

Well, for those actually knowing how Windows works the concept that the Hosts file is bypassed for a number of microsoft related websites is not entirely "news", at least in the past this was used and knowing how the good MS guys like to re-use code it is not really a "surprise" JFYI:

http://reboot.pro/topic/20622-windows-10-enterprise-ltsb-mother-of-all-tweak-scripts/?p=194235

 

jaclaz

[JorgeA]

Windows 10 search bar phones home to Microsoft, even with Bing disabled

 

By searching from the Windows 10 taskbar, users are making a connection to Microsoft whether they want to or not.

 

A report by Ars Technica found that even when users disable Cortana and Bing, taskbar searches still phone home to Microsoft and request a file from bing.com. The file apparently contains some Cortana information, and includes a random ID number that’s tied to the machine.

 

[...]

 

As Ars points out, it seems Microsoft is using these requests to download Live Tile information even if the user doesn’t have any tiles in the Start menu. And even when collection of telemetry data is disabled, some of the transmitted information appears to reference telemetry settings. Microsoft was also receiving some traffic whose purpose Ars couldn’t identify at all.

 

Why this matters: In recent years, Microsoft has tried to establish itself as a privacy leader that won’t cross the same creepiness lines as rival Google. It’s hard to say Windows 10 has advanced that goal, between the collection of typing data in the Technical Preview, the slightly unnerving Wi-Fi Sense feature, and the default collection of taskbar search data through Bing.[...]

 

Interesting that the Ars Technica post is by Peter Bright, who was one of the biggest Windows 8 apologists back in the day. Here's something he reported that's not discussed in the PC World post:

 

...Windows 10 will periodically send data to a Microsoft server named ssw.live.com. This server seems to be used for OneDrive and some other Microsoft services. Windows 10 seems to transmit information to the server even when OneDrive is disabled and logins are using a local account that isn't connected to a Microsoft Account. The exact nature of the information being sent isn't clear—it appears to be referencing telemetry settings—and again, it's not clear why any data is being sent at all...

 

At least some of the points made in the posting referenced by TELVM seem to be starting to get corroborated.

 

Bright's bottom line:

 

We've argued recently that operating systems will continue to make privacy-functionality trade-offs. For many users, perhaps even the majority, these trade-offs will be worthwhile; services such as Cortana (Siri, Google Now), cloud syncing of files, passwords, and settings, and many other modern operating system features are all valuable, and many will feel that the loss of privacy is an acceptable price to pay. But the flip side of this is that disabling these services for those who don't want to use them should really disable them. And it's not at all clear that Windows 10 is doing that right now.

 

--JorgeA

 

EDIT: typo

Edited August 14, 2015 by JorgeA