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Windows 10 - Deeper Impressions

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On 12/5/2016 at 8:17 AM, jaclaz said:

basically - according to NHS - if you install an el-cheapo camera and leave password admin/admin, you may cause the disruption of primary US networks, which seemingly have today the same robustness of Ukraine's ones one year ago, which were however compromised NOT by DDOS or similar attacks but from remote logins on (with payloads sent and/or credentials obtained through phishing) internet connected  SCADA's :w00t::ph34r:

Speaking of having stuff needlessly connected to the Internet, I just came across this:  :)

2340.png

[source: http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/2340.png]

My apologies if this has already been posted on MSFN and I missed it!

--JorgeA

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On 12/6/2016 at 8:24 AM, jaclaz said:

As a side note, but relevant, a recent international study confirms the gut feeling that only 1/15 to 1/20 people actually know where their towel is (provided that the "level 3", which seems to me anyway basic enough, corresponds to knowing where your towel is :dubbio:):
https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/

More or less the direct consequence of this is that in the name of popularity (and/or market size) everything is going to be dumbed down simplified to be compliant with the level the vast majority of people are, thus keeping them in their persistent ignorance computer illiteracy.

Now, I am the first one to sponsor simplicity and attempting to apply Occam's razor to *everything*, but one thing is making things as simple as possible (good) and another thing is making things as simple as the lazy users expect them to be (and in doing so limit the possibilities of more advanced uses of the tool by a few more knowledgeable and willing to learn people).

jaclaz

The irony of this (and IIRC it's been pointed out on that excellent NN website), is that "simple" interfaces often turn out to be MORE difficult to use because they fail to provide cues to the user. For instance, having flat clickable elements that look like they're just text with a colored background, and no 3-D "button" effect to suggest to the user that it's an active element. And then hiding menus under those camouflaged non-buttons. The user receives no hint as to how to navigate the website, and starts clicking anywhere and everywhere. Or nowhere, opting to go someplace else instead.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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By the way, Microsoft's plan for the next 20-25 years is do similar to what Apple did with OS X. They are now going to introduce Windows 10 on ARM (with Win32 emulation). Next, at some point, kill off Windows on x86 and say "Hey you can run Win32 apps too on ARM plus Modern apps so you don't need Windows on x86." So Win32 emulation on ARM will be like what Apple had with Rosetta on OS X. After a while, that will be killed off too as their planned obsolescence is complete.

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43 minutes ago, xpclient said:

By the way, Microsoft's plan for the next 20-25 years is do similar to what Apple did with OS X. They are now going to introduce Windows 10 on ARM (with Win32 emulation). Next, at some point, kill off Windows on x86 and say "Hey you can run Win32 apps too on ARM plus Modern apps so you don't need Windows on x86." So Win32 emulation on ARM will be like what Apple had with Rosetta on OS X. After a while, that will be killed off too as their planned obsolescence is complete.

I read about this last night. I just don't understand their reasoning for getting Windows to run on ARM, whose chips power small-screen devices. On a small screen, it's either a Windows Mobile or Metro (touch) UI, which already failed spectacularly; or a regular desktop-type UI, which is plainly unsuited for screens of that size. So, where's the advantage??

One of the articles I read (I think it was by Thurrott) talked about running this contraption on laptops. But again, what's the point of that? We already have laptops running on Intel chips.

I just don't see the rationale for these "Windows on ARM" plans. BTW, WOA was already mooted three years ago as Windows 8 was coming on the scene, and that concept went over like a lead balloon. So, what gives? Are they simply running out of ideas and this latest move is but a desperate rehash?

--JorgeA

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You never know how many sheep, lemmings and people with blindfaith in Microsoft will follow them and accept whatever changes Windows introduces. Some are just conformist and they never question anything or do any critical thinking. They will accept what's laid out in front of them. Since the majority of people are like that, there's no hope really. We've lost the Windows we once had and unless Satan Nadella is fired, Windows is going to continue its planned obsolescence. What's in it for you? Nothing but there's money to be made again for Microsoft by selling far inferior software.

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Charlie Demerjian comes in with a similar (though of course better developed) viewpoint on the "Windows on ARM" idea:

Microsoft gives Qualcomm’s Snapdragon WARTs
 

Quote

Do recall that when Microsoft last tried to put Windows on ARM there was much excitement among those with things to sell and their paid press partners. None of these people bothered to publicly question the viability of a dog-slow heavy OS on a power constrained mobile platform with a complete lack of software. Then there was Windows 8 which only added to the user misery. It failed. No, it cratered the market, there wasn’t even a theoretical upside.

[...]

Theoretically the x86 emulation will allow for seamless running of all desktop x86 code on ARM based SoCs like the Qualcomm Snapdragon in question. In the real world, emulation takes a lot of CPU overhead, induces some rather random timing headaches, and adds massive CPU load to the picture. So you are comparing a Snapdragon 835 to an Intel desktop part with a massive power and IPC/general performance advantage. Apples to orangutans really, and emulation in games will work, well less well than the rosy press releases, think timing headaches and out of control power use.

What runs barely acceptably on a low power big Intel core and not at all well on an Atom is now going to run just fine on a lower performance Qualcomm SoC? The Qualcomm Snapdragon line is made up of world class SoCs but they are not aimed at the right market, they are mobile, low energy use parts meant for light OSes, not heavy bloated, desktop ones. This won’t end well.

Then add in the performance crater from emulation and you have something that makes molasses in winder look fast. Throw in the substantially higher energy use for decode on mobile devices and even the high skin temperatures won’t make said molasses run fast, but it will make your battery cry. There is really no up side to this process, it is just a bad idea, bad for user who will once again unknowingly buy a WART box, and bad on every technical level. Microsoft needs it to placate jittery stockholders questioning them about a mobile strategy though so it will be touted as a good thing by the tame and paid press.

More good points in the rest of the post on SemiAccurate.

--JorgeA

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Seems like the very definition of insanity to me.

-Noel

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Maybe in order to have that emulation working decently they might end up removing some of the bloat from Windows ....

(Hey, a man can dream ... ;))

Just as a reminder, "average" base OS install size:

NT 4.0 180 Mb

2K 650 Mb

XP 1500 Mb

Vista :ph34r: 16000 Mb

...

jaclaz
 

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Wow!

Based on that, I roughly figured out the amount of increase from version to version:

NT 4.0 to 2000: ~3.6 times increase in disk usage

2000 to XP: ~2.3 times increase

XP to Vista: 10.67 times increase!

NT 4.0 to Vista: An incredible 88.89 times greater!!! Almost two orders of magnitude!!!

Everything else since Vista have been relatively even from what I can tell (maybe 8.x and 10 are a bit more due to all the Metro App junk).

c

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Just now, cc333 said:

(maybe 8.x and 10 are a bit more due to all the Metro App junk).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember the Windows 10 ISO being too large to fit on a 4GB flash drive, when 7's fit on there fine.

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I wouldn't be surprised. Bloat seems to be The Order Of Things nowadays.

Gone are the times when people actually cared about making software efficient by saving resources like disk space, CPU cycles and RAM, which in turn ran faster because it was less bloated.

The Internet is the worst offender, since even a "simple" web site nowadays brings my 2009 Mac Pro with dual six core X5680s and 32 GB of DDR3-1066 to its knees (that's inexcusable! Especially since it plows through everything else). Don't even think about my lesser machines! (my laptops are "slower", but they're based on newer gens of CPU architecture, so they're about the same as the Mac Pro).

It's not just computers, either. My phone, an iPhone 6 Plus, was among the top of its class just a year and a half ago when I got it, but now when I try loading more than two or three of these wretched sites, it lags and stutters like nobody's business (the web browser has even crashed on me a couple of times because of it!)

By 2001 standards, XP had a lot of bloat (and often slowed down modestly-specced contemporary computers that were only slightly dated when it was released), but looking back at it after 11 years of Vista et al, it doesn't look so bad, even with all the bloat it too has accumulated via updates and such.

<end of rant>

c

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@cc333

Not so-surprisingly, being 7 actually Vista SP3, and being Windows 8/8.1 respectively alpha and beta releases of Vista SP5.

@rn10950

But that all in all is understandable, it is what you have at a running system that actually counts, the (mammoth) size of install files is only a minor issue.

OT, but not much, remember that the actual installed size of modern Windows OS is (understandanly BTW) less than what it really is because of the WinSXS hard-linking, try the same Vista (or 7) install on FAT32, JFYI:

jaclaz
 

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38 minutes ago, cc333 said:

The Internet is the worst offender, since even a "simple" web site nowadays brings my 2009 Mac Pro with dual six core X5680s and 32 GB of DDR3-1066 to its knees

Definitely.

The signal-to-noise ratio regarding the web has decreased dramatically in the past decade. There are way too many scripts and unnecessary CSS files on modern webpages, not to mention the recent mobile-first fad where every webpage thinks it's a scrolling PowerPoint presentation. This is what happens when you give an artist a programmer's job.

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Block the ads and malware and web sites get quite a bit more efficient.

-Noel

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utube has more bloat than 5 years ago.

notice this popular utube site I frequent, may have double ads..

watching that utube video, then their video ad pops up, seems like its just

before the good stuff

my 2 cents

Charl

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