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Windows 10 - Deeper Impressions

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Uh-oh...

Joe Belfiore Returns To Microsoft, Will Drive Windows 10 Consumer Shell Initiatives
 

Quote

I have known for a few weeks that Belfiore had returned and now we know what he is doing. Joe will be running the consumer-focused Windows Shell and will be reporting to Terry Myerson; his objective will be to find new ways to make money with Windows 10 as the traditional licensing model of the OS goes away, especially in the lower-priced segment.

There will be other responsibilities under his belt but this is the high-level objective and it may not sit well with some users. It’s not hard to figure out that this could be a way to introduce more advertising directly into Windows either with native advertisements or other ‘sponsored’ content. We know Microsoft is not shy about doing this and it’s clear that they have no intention removing that content from the OS.

This seals the deal. Windows is a tool, like a pen or a desk(top). If my pen or my office desk start suggesting to me what brand of ink or lamp to use, it's time to find a new writing implement, a new piece of furniture to write on, that will shut the f*ck up and leave me alone.

--JorgeA

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JorgeA... did I hear a Penguin in the background??

I agree, it is a tool.  Although becoming one that is hard to want to use.  Saw some purported comments from MS' CEO that indicated that they are DEAD SET on continuing down the path.  Now, off to play a bit of Devil's Advocate.

I would venture to guess that most of us here have started to either see our hair color change or seen most of it go away.  That being said, could it be that we are so set in our ways, that we can't conceive a different way of doing things?   For myself, there is no better Word Processor than WordPerfect.  But, I think that I finally figured out why I dislike MS Word (and those that copy it) so much.  It is because I learned to type on a typewriter.  I don't need a style sheet (that only works for X), I know what it is supposed to look like before I even start typing and get there with carriage returns and tabs (and some word processor goodies such as underline, bold, etc.).  That is an example that I personally can relate.  So is it that we, as the older set, just don't want to explore and or use a different method?

Oh, and by the way, it isn't just Windows that this is happening to.  I see it in Linux as well, just not to the same degree.  At least there, if the Desktop is to annoying I can change to a totally different one with a few clicks.  I should disclose, that my main OS has not been anything made by Microsoft for a few years now.  I still use some of their older stuff, but primarily in virtual machines.

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44 minutes ago, bpalone said:

Now, off to play a bit of Devil's Advocate.

I would venture to guess that most of us here have started to either see our hair color change or seen most of it go away.  That being said, could it be that we are so set in our ways, that we can't conceive a different way of doing things?

I am very proud of a (otherwise lousy ;)) t-shirt I was given for my 50th birthday that reads:

Quote

I am not 50, I am 18, but with 32 years of experience.

The answer is NO, we (cumulatively the "geeks") have already spent a large part of our lives looking for and testing new, strange things, there is no other reason why - unless it is a mere coincidence - we stopped being curious/enthusiastic exactly at the same time some (crappy) products came out, the ONLY possible explanation is that these products are crappy.

Show me a different, better[1] way to do something and I will adopt it in no time, today like I did it yesterday (and also the day before).

The advantage we have (when compared to the younger folks) is that we ALREADY did that something in more ways they can even imagine, thus we can easily compare the effectiveness and ergonomics of the more traditional tools/methods/approaches against the last, new, hip, one they just devised and rather easily separate the wheat from the chaff.

jaclaz

[1] better here means actually better.
 

Edited by jaclaz
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As to the ageing, I have told a granddaughter that we have raised that "Getting older is mandatory, but growing up is Optional.", and I live by that.  Still enjoy my toys.

I agree, if it is really better (by your apt definition), I will adopt it in a nano second.  But, I think the current crop of interface designers has lost the ability to think it through.  All they do, is GEE this COOL, but fail to see that in reality it is cool but USELESS.  I am in fact still a fan of the command line, so I may be just a bit jaded in the fact that I expect things to be STRAIGHT to the point, not hidden away in some obscure place without words menu.

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since the topic of DNS servers popped up any thoughts on pi-hole? (looks like it would be a good cheep basic dns server) have not had a chance to mess with it yet.

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55 minutes ago, helpdesk98 said:

since the topic of DNS servers popped up any thoughts on pi-hole? (looks like it would be a good cheep basic dns server) have not had a chance to mess with it yet.

Great minds think alike ...


 

... and following ...

jaclaz
 

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9 hours ago, bpalone said:

I would venture to guess that most of us here have started to either see our hair color change or seen most of it go away.  That being said, could it be that we are so set in our ways, that we can't conceive a different way of doing things?

...

So is it that we, as the older set, just don't want to explore and or use a different method?

Bravo for asking that question.  I've asked it too - many times.  Questioning oneself is a sign of scientific, objective thinking.  I questioned myself and my point of view most recently just this past weekend, when I saw what my son (who's working on a PhD) had set up on his new MacBook Pro (OSX desktop, then swipe left via VMware Fusion and whoosh, Windows 10 desktop).

And yes, I've got a gray beard and thinning hair - but I'll wager I'm pretty much still as mentally flexible as anyone w/regard to high tech.  Being incurably interested in it and excited by it does that.  I really like jaclaz's post above, and I feel the same.

Hey, to type this I'm using - and love - Windows 8.1 (suitably tweaked and augmented with productivity enhancements) on my main workstation!  How stuck in the mud could I be?

No, I'm more about getting things to WORK, and I actually like finding new ways to do that.

For a while I ran Office 365.  Then I chose to get a new old stock license for Office 2010.  Guess what?  Office 365 was not better!

I'm running Win 10 in a virtual machine.  Why?  So that I can know by first-hand experience by setting it up for serious use as best I can what it is all about.

So I'm not just dabbling or speculating, I'm USING these things to do engineering work, business management, etc.  I have a vested interest in the future of Windows, as it's the market I sell software into.

And guess what? 

I keep answering my own question with facts and experience.  Windows 10 just isn't better.  It's not because I am an old dinosaur, set in my ways.  It really is because it's not better.  And EVEN THAT might be okay except that Microsoft causes it to revert the tweaks every few months!  That makes it simply unacceptable.

-Noel

Edited by NoelC
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It's Christmas time and my thought about a really good gift would be the MacBook Pro maxed out and running several operating systems with VMware Fusion.  The concept of swipe left or right to simply move to another operating system with native apps is really inviting.  2017 may become an interesting technology year.  Maybe go back to school again in the second childhood.  OS X, Win 7 Pro, Win 8.1 Pro, Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint for starters.  The 2TB SSD embedded on the motherboard should handle the space requirement.  Just a dreamer wishing on a star.

Edited by BudwS
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34 minutes ago, BudwS said:

It's Christmas time and my thought about a really good gift would be the MacBook Pro maxed out and running several operating systems with VMware Fusion.  The concept of swipe left or right to simply move to another operating system with native apps is really inviting.  2017 may become an interesting technology year.  Maybe go back to school again in the second childhood.  OS X, Win 7 Pro, Win 8.1 Pro, Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint for starters.  The 1TB SSD embedded on the motherboard should handle the space requirement.  Just a dreamer wishing on a star.

Well it is not a bad thing to have dreams.....I would also like a Mac and everything is heading that way....

Once again it is the same problem when working with a fresh install of Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit....The installation has sp1 baked into it direct from Microsoft...After the installation the problem with windows update agent 7.6.7600.320 rears its ugly head...and that is easy to fix with the following downloads Windows6.1-KB3102810-x64, Windows6.1-KB3138612-x64 and if needed Windows6.1-KB947821-v34-x64...then Windows updates comes with about 284 updates plus the choice of extra languages etc.

But....there is even a downside to this fix...after installing the first batch of updates it hangs itself again and will not update and you can leave it several hours...no joy....I have had a real gut full of this crap....spending hours searching for new solutions to the problem....and at present I have only found one that works and that is the Windows Offline Updater....

After running that Windows then finds another 70 or so updates and finishes with just the free ones and the Windows Update searches for a while and comes back with no more updates other than the rollups, extra driver updates and languages....

It is disgusting!!!

Microsoft can't and will not seem to be interested in millions of users of Windows 7...or the other versions...apart from Windows 10 and it can't even make a good job of that...

Huge companies are going to have to think again if they are still putting their faith in this crap heap of a company....

bookie56

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15 hours ago, bpalone said:

JorgeA... did I hear a Penguin in the background??

I agree, it is a tool.  Although becoming one that is hard to want to use.  Saw some purported comments from MS' CEO that indicated that they are DEAD SET on continuing down the path.  Now, off to play a bit of Devil's Advocate.

I would venture to guess that most of us here have started to either see our hair color change or seen most of it go away.  That being said, could it be that we are so set in our ways, that we can't conceive a different way of doing things?   For myself, there is no better Word Processor than WordPerfect.  But, I think that I finally figured out why I dislike MS Word (and those that copy it) so much.  It is because I learned to type on a typewriter.  I don't need a style sheet (that only works for X), I know what it is supposed to look like before I even start typing and get there with carriage returns and tabs (and some word processor goodies such as underline, bold, etc.).  That is an example that I personally can relate.  So is it that we, as the older set, just don't want to explore and or use a different method?

Oh, and by the way, it isn't just Windows that this is happening to.  I see it in Linux as well, just not to the same degree.  At least there, if the Desktop is to annoying I can change to a totally different one with a few clicks.  I should disclose, that my main OS has not been anything made by Microsoft for a few years now.  I still use some of their older stuff, but primarily in virtual machines.

LOL, there is indeed a Penguin in the background. He's been lurking there, waiting for the moment when I decide enough is enough and go take the plunge. Every now and then I pay him a visit, just to let him know that I haven't forgotten and that he's still in active reserve. :)

In my case, I've been open to changes that represent actual improvement. For example, IMHO the change from the Windows 3.1 Program Manager to the Explorer shell in 95 onwards was an unquestionable improvement in usability. The problem is, how do you then improve on perfection? ;)  Seriously, I think that with the 95/98 Desktop (including the Taskbar, the Start Button, and the Start Menu) the Windows UI became a fully developed, mature product.

There have been a few welcome tweaks along the way, such as Aero Glass with Vista and right-click jump lists with 7. But the overhauls that came with 8 and now 10 demonstrate to me that they have run out of improvements, as practically everything they've done to the UI since then has made it worse, not better -- and not even equivalent to what they already had.

By "worse" I mean less usable, harder to use. A case in point is the MS Office ribbon -- I have now used Office 2007 for longer than I used Office 2000... and I'm still hunting around the ribbon for the commands I need. The menu system in Office 2000 was just so much more intuitive, easier to navigate. Somehow it seems to be organized in a more logical, orderly manner. (And I came to Office 2000 from WordStar, so it took some getting used to.)

My hope is that Linux will become a practical enough proposition for my business needs that, at some point, I can simply make the switch without skipping a heartbeat. Time will tell.

--JorgeA

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17 hours ago, JorgeA said:

My hope is that Linux will become a practical enough proposition for my business needs that, at some point, I can simply make the switch without skipping a heartbeat. Time will tell.

--JorgeA

Jorge I been waiting for that day probably as long as you have, not looking any closer than it was 10 years ago, maybe by 2025!

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12 hours ago, xman charl said:

notice when windows key is pressed along with number 1 key.

edge pops up

I wonder what it does if Edge has been completely removed.  I don't have a Win key on my keyboard, so I can't actually test it.  I can emulate the Win key with Control-Escape, but Control-Escape-1 doesn't seem possible - it doesn't wait for the keys to be let up, so the start menu shows before I get the 1 pressed.

-Noel

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33 minutes ago, NoelC said:

I wonder what it does if Edge has been completely removed.  I don't have a Win key on my keyboard, so I can't actually test it.  I can emulate the Win key with Control-Escape, but Control-Escape-1 doesn't seem possible - it doesn't wait for the keys to be let up, so the start menu shows before I get the 1 pressed.

-Noel

Use temporarily a key re-mapper *like* :

(keytweak, home page is down,  Wayback Machine:https://web.archive.org/web/20120919005012/http://webpages.charter.net/krumsick

https://sharpkeys.codeplex.com/

Or this one (again via Wayback Machine):

https://web.archive.org/web/20130722061920/http://www.inchwest.com/mapkeyboard

jaclaz
 

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