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Windows 10 - Deeper Impressions

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3 hours ago, cc333 said:

I have a box full of consecutively-numbered Win95 OSR2 CDs :)

c

I have genuine nt4 , 95 , 98 first edition even bob got from my granny.

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Windows Update is a mess: 3 things Microsoft should do to fix it

Good and informative rundown of the problems with WU in Windows 10.

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Windows Update has never been an ideal solution for maintaining PCs. There are simply too many different hardware and software configurations for it to work perfectly, or be painless. However, Microsoft has made the situation worse. The company is attempting to sweep the complexities under the rug by taking control away from users and pretending it can operate Windows 10 as a service. While that is in line with its corporate objectives, it’s frustrating many of its customers — and costing them countless hours of wasted time...

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Even worse than Microsoft deciding when it wants to push new features or UI changes onto your computer is when you wake up to find that a computer that worked perfectly yesterday is now not much more than a paperweight. Sometimes the situation can be fixed by Windows’ own repair utilities, sometimes with a third-party utility (at some additional expense), and sometimes not at all. Among the dozen or so Windows 10 systems I’ve used and maintained, I’ve had all three happen to me. Most recently, one older laptop turned out to have a webcam driver that would not work after a forced update. Completely removing it from the system let it work for about 5 minutes until it re-enabled itself and the system blue-screened.

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Unless you are part of an Enterprise, or a user of Windows Pro who knows how to use the Policy Editor, Microsoft does not provide any way to turn off Auto Updates. You can tell them to occur outside “active hours,” but you can only have up to 12 active hours per day (and who is Microsoft to tell me when I want my computer to be usable and not rebooting?). Outside those hours, if you aren’t actively using the system, it will happily kill off your applications, and reboot as many times as it needs to in order to apply updates. That can be mildly frustrating when the updates actually work but, in a version of Groundhog Day, Windows 10 will do this over and over again — every day — if the updates fail to install.

Also, good recommendations for fixing WU. Love that image for a proposed configuration menu.

--JorgeA

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>Love that image for a proposed configuration menu.

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A-user-friendly-Windows-Update-might-hav

Sure, but Microsoft isn't going to backpedal on this one.  They HAD essentially what is proposed there.  Apparently they're convinced they can do it as well or better than the majority of people, and their agenda is to close the system entirely so that they manage it.

In a related article, there's a great quote:

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No, seriously. I can’t figure out what I have now that I didn’t have when I was running Windows 7.

-Noel

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8 hours ago, NoelC said:

In a related article, there's a great quote:

Not only a great quote, but a pretty good article all around from the editor-in-chief of ExtremeTech. This part sums it up:

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I don’t talk to my PC. I don’t need DX12. I don’t have an Xbox. I still don’t have a touchscreen monitor. I don’t use built-in Windows apps for things like email and calendar appointments. While that’s all personal preference, I also don’t see anything in that list that seems like a must have for a large majority of people.

--JorgeA

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While we're on the topic of Win10's aggressive reboot policy following the installation of updates, here's what happened to an undeniable computing expert (emphasis added):
 

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FR. ROBERT: ...I just rolled back all my machines from 10. I had a few on 10.

Steve: I heard that yesterday. You were talking about this.

FR. ROBERT: Yeah. It was...

Steve: Or I guess on Sunday.

FR. ROBERT: I just, you know, it was one of these things where I was willing to put up with so many of the little quirks and foibles of Windows 10 because I actually do kind of like the OS. A few things like the sticky borders and the fact that the registry edits don't work anymore really bugged me. But what finally did it was the fact that I have active hours set on my machines so that it doesn't do any updates while I'm working. And evidently this last big update ignored that. Either Microsoft thought it was so important, or it was just not set up properly. So this machine went into its update - no notification, no ability to cancel it, just a notice saying "Do not turn off your machine" - in the middle of a show. It delayed the show by 30 minutes because this had all the tools that I needed to get to, and there was no way to stop it. There was no way to cancel it. And if you turn off a Windows machine in the middle of an upgrade, it will bork it.

Steve: Thank god you're not a heart surgeon, Father.

FR. ROBERT: I know; right? But then I got home, and I thought, okay, maybe I messed up active hours. Maybe that was me. And so I checked, before I started that night's video editing, I checked my active hours, and they were still on. Like, okay, I'm good. And in the middle of the video edit it did the same thing. It dropped into the update screen. I'm looking at it, I'm screaming at it, going, "I didn't even save any of my work." I lost an hour and a half of work because Windows just decided now is a good time for it to update. And I'm thinking, you know what, it might be a bug, and I'm willing to say Microsoft could fix it. But no. If your OS thinks that it's more important than the work I'm doing on the OS, we can't use you. I guess I'm a Never10 now.

Steve: Well, it'll stabilize. I don't have any doubt that it'll stabilize. We've seen this history of Microsoft going from good versions to bad versions. Normally, it's an every other one. I think they've got two turkeys in a row in this case. The problem, of course, is now they're saying there's not going to be an 11. We're just stuck with 10. But the other new thing about this is that they're moving towards the software as a service, and this now becomes an OS as a service because, one way or the other, if people are not going to upgrade, they're going to figure out a way to turn us into revenue streams. So I'm happy at 7.

--JorgeA

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The only way "it'll stabilize" is if Microsoft hires a whole different crew.  Starting with management with integrity, and ending with real engineers who can both do good, solid OS work and who ALSO care about the policies of the company enough to flat refuse to turn the product into malware even if management of the "modern" school tries to make that happen.

-Noel

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I think Microsoft need to go back to XP style updates (with its own interface on they system not in IE/Edge or metro) It has been a long time since I used Windows Update for XP, but from what I remember they used to give you more information about the update not just a vague description that is so general it explains nothing and links to a .001% less vague description that leaves you searching the boules of the Internet just to see if anyone else knows what the H___ is going on. If they ever would update such an interface I would like in the information filed more details about the update, any previous update dependency, and any know compatibility issues. I would also like to see them bring back the options to disable/enable WU, Download but choose when and what to install, and be able to choose a time to update (update now, update at 3am when I am sleeping, hold on I am in the middle of something please try again later) 

Sorry it is a bit of a messy rant :P

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If people are going to bend over and accept telemetry from MS (and even into previous OS's, and compilers), of course other companies are going to start jumping on the bandwagon.

Maybe in the future, when doing something as simple as saving a text file on your own computer, involves writing data to multiple files, registry keys, and connecting to multiple 3rd party servers, people might start to care. Probably not though, it seems cattle like to keep their heads down when they are being herded.

Edited by MikeyV
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An intriguing bit of information from a frequent contributor to Woody Leonhard's blog:

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I will mention without giving details that as it is now, anyone can use Windows 10 Enterprise or LTSB in non-activated mode forever with very few limitations, without doing any hacks, but with the right knowledge about the licensing model of Windows 10.

This would at least enable users to avoid the snooping aspects of Windows 10 by setting the telemetry level to 0.

--JorgeA

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21 hours ago, Dibya said:

I have genuine nt4 , 95 , 98 first edition even bob got from my granny.

Very cool, you own a piece (several pieces) of history. :thumbup

--JorgeA

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17 hours ago, jaclaz said:

Have been noticing this from Nvidia....bloody shame they are going down the same road as Microsoft....

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11 hours ago, JorgeA said:

An intriguing bit of information from a frequent contributor to Woody Leonhard's blog:

This would at least enable users to avoid the snooping aspects of Windows 10 by setting the telemetry level to 0.

--JorgeA

Same is true of Server editions at least back to 2012 RTM (not R2). I ran a Server 2012 box that was not activated for 6 months or so. It had a product key in it but it was isolated. It ran WDS no problem as a domain member for that time and didn't reboot or anything like that.

Gone are the days of XP where it would lock you out of the system. Of course you can't use that in a corporate setting because it would not be in compliance and you'd get popped if you got audited.

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