NoelC Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, BudwS said: If one is logged onto Win 10 with a Microsoft password then a server password reset feature is available. Working at a university this feature was used quite a lot for users who logged onto the server. By using the Win 10 online password reset, using Safari on the iPhone, the laptop password was reset and the neighbor was very happy with Microsoft. The appropriate security procedure worked to verify that the password reset was actually requested by the laptop owner. Had not thought about logging on to a Win 10 system with an online Microsoft logon was like logging onto a university server computer. To me, this made a "Deeper Impression." To me this sounds like what SHOULD have been a learning experience. A few dozen hours setting a whole computer system back up would teach that user not to allow "gnomes" access to a Windows system with an administrative account... Not to put too fine a point on it, but what did you THINK was going to happen? So great, the password was reset back to something to where the user could get in. But what else is permanently "gnome-enhanced"? Entire drive shared on OneDrive? Tax records mysteriously missing? No doubt that neighbor will blame Microsoft or the universe or ANYONE but himself/herself. The problem isn't that older Windows systems didn't place the management of the all-important administrative password in the hands of someone else. This problem was a short circuit between the headsets. -Noel Edited July 23, 2017 by NoelC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookie32 Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, NoelC said: And almost certainly less maintainable. I constantly have to rely on my lifetime of experience not to have my Win 10 test system become unusable. Again. And so it remains captive in a virtual machine, while my desktop - on which I rely for business and all general computing needs - continues to run Windows 8.1 (with countless hours of tweaks). The difference is that Microsoft is no longer trying to change Win 8.1 into something other than an NT-derived operating system. -Noel Trying to get this over to my customers is not easy...."I can tweak your version of Windows and make it more easy to manage...but can't guarantee anything because Microsoft in its infinite wisdom likes releasing updates that **** up all your hard work and you're back to where you started"... Not exactly something that will inspire confidence in customers bookie32 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudwS Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 11 hours ago, jaclaz said: Can you explain? What do you mean "small visiting relatives"? Evil gnomes that changed the password? Or the sheer presence near the laptop of someone that is not the owner did that? jaclaz Grandchildren and nieces and nephews of a young age. Other details are not known. Pure speculation may be required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudwS Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 3 hours ago, NoelC said: To me this sounds like what SHOULD have been a learning experience. A few dozen hours setting a whole computer system back up would teach that user not to allow "gnomes" access to a Windows system with an administrative account... Not to put too fine a point on it, but what did you THINK was going to happen? So great, the password was reset back to something to where the user could get in. But what else is permanently "gnome-enhanced"? Entire drive shared on OneDrive? Tax records mysteriously missing? No doubt that neighbor will blame Microsoft or the universe or ANYONE but himself/herself. The problem isn't that older Windows systems didn't place the management of the all-important administrative password in the hands of someone else. This problem was a short circuit between the headsets. -Noel Some of the small people have a computer skill set greater than the Lord of the Castle. This was a tablet laptop and the display was rotated 180 degrees. The Lord did not know that was possible. A short seminar was required for the Lord. Perhaps it was an "Oh-Oh" moment for the small ones as well like "What did we do?" and "How do we fix this." and "I hope they don't find this before we go home." I have the occasional impulse to see what happens when a different key is pushed. Sometimes it's a learning experience and sometimes it's "Oh C***." This time it appears to be a "No harm, no fault" moment. The Deep Impression moment was that the password was reset. That was the learning experience for me. Didn't know that could be done on a none server connected computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaclaz Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 7 hours ago, BudwS said: The Deep Impression moment was that the password was reset. That was the learning experience for me. Didn't know that could be done on a none server connected computer. No, sorry , but you have this wrong . A "normal" Windows 10 is connected to a server (a Microsoft one, of which you know nothing about[1]) 24/7, so nothing really-really new that the password can be reset remotely. jaclaz [1] due to the asymmetric nature of the connection, rest assured that while you know nothing about that, "they" know EVERYTHING about you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelC Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Like I said, a good learning experience, not dissimilar from keeping the car keys out of the little ones' hands - though I'm not sure I'd hand over the keys first in order to find out what could happen. "With great computing power comes great responsibility." 7 hours ago, BudwS said: The Deep Impression moment was that the password was reset. That was the learning experience for me. Didn't know that could be done on a none server connected computer. But if I understand you correctly, the computer IS server-connected, right? Just to Microsoft's servers. The servers that manage your "Microsoft Account". Microsoft's point with "Windows as a Service" goes along the lines of "user's can't be expected to manage their own systems or data, so hand it over to us and we'll take care of it". I'm not sure I agree with that. Sure, not everyone wants to be a computer geek, but does the pendulum have to swing ALL THE WAY the other way? Maybe instead of "taking over", Microsoft should be building robust systems that keep the control in users' hands but help them in new and unprecedented ways to keep their data safe. Windows 7 gave us the ability to back our systems up, and even reminded us to set up a backup process that was useful to us. SOME people actually listened and did it, because they realized their data has value to them. More recently, it's as if Microsoft wants people to feel as though their data has no value, and that they should be "living in the moment" only. Perhaps I'm weird, but I consider handing over my administrative account information (and telemetric data, data files, etc.) to Microsoft in the same light as handing car keys to kids. Why does anyone think that's a good idea? -Noel 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaclaz Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 31 minutes ago, NoelC said: Perhaps I'm weird, but I consider handing over my administrative account information (and telemetric data, data files, etc.) to Microsoft in the same light as handing car keys to kids. Why does anyone think that's a good idea? -Noel Maybe you are a little weird or maybe not , however the comparison does not hold. The idea about not giving the car keys to kids is that they (the kids) are not qualified to drive the car and - possibly - will anyway recklessly attempt to drive it, with the risk of damaging the car and/or harm themselves. The idea of handing administrative account information (and data, etc.) to the good MS guys is different, they are qualified and not-so-reckless. It is more like the idea of having your precious documents in a bank safety deposit box. The guys from the bank are qualified (actually they are pretty good at it) to keep their safe really safe, still they don't have BOTH needed keys to open that box. You keep your key, and they cannot open the box at their will and go through whatever it contains. They (the guys from the bank) are pretty accurate in checking the identity of anyone that - holding the key - wants access to the safety box, and only you know what actually is the whatever you put in it. Imagine if they (the guys from the bank) came instead to your house (while you are away), going through each and every document then took away with them everything they believed being of value replacing them with perfect copies ( and then put in your safe deposit box only what they think might be useful to you, keeping BTW also a copy of your key) . jaclaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelC Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) I see no problem with my analogy. Microsoft is MOST CERTAINLY not qualified to drive my computers, nor to go through my data. That they engineered some components of my systems / network makes them qualified to supply components, and only after serious validation. I think this touches on the crux of the problem. They are trying to take the stance that they're qualified to run systems only after having shown themselves to be (barely) qualified to supply parts. -Noel Edited July 25, 2017 by NoelC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaclaz Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 qualified does not necessarily mean capable. jaclaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelC Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Right, hence my mention of validation. That's an extra implied dimension thrown in just to make things more complex. And as if the problem doesn't have enough dimensions already, their capabilities and qualifications are changing over time. We poor humans just want to oversimplify things, and things are most certainly not simple when it comes to integrating technology into our lives. I feel sorry for the poor folks who just give up and put their lives in the hands of those who claim to be qualified, but in reality have butterfingers. -Noel 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookie32 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 hour ago, NoelC said: Right, hence my mention of validation. That's an extra implied dimension thrown in just to make things more complex. And as if the problem doesn't have enough dimensions already, their capabilities and qualifications are changing over time. We poor humans just want to oversimplify things, and things are most certainly not simple when it comes to integrating technology into our lives. I feel sorry for the poor folks who just give up and put their lives in the hands of those who claim to be qualified, but in reality have butterfingers. -Noel Well, this thread and similar like it have really opened my eyes.....even if I need glasses nowadays... I think we can all agree that something is seriously wrong in the Microsoft camp.... I don't like the idea of Microsoft taking care of any data at all....Yes, I understand that is hard to avoid....just have no respect for them as a company any more... bookie32 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaclaz Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 14 minutes ago, bookie32 said: Well, this thread and similar like it have really opened my eyes.....even if I need glasses nowadays... I think we can all agree that something is seriously wrong in the Microsoft camp.... I don't like the idea of Microsoft taking care of any data at all....Yes, I understand that is hard to avoid....just have no respect for them as a company any more... bookie32 Well, you never know. Until a short time ago I would have pointed out the Swedish (oops, only a coincidence) as being (both as a people and as a government) among the most serious, rigorous and attentive people of the EU, with an advanced and diffused culture, especially related to modern technology, and they partnered with IBM (I mean, not a new startup founded by you and me to disrupt something), still: https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/2017/07/swedish-transport-agency-worst-known-governmental-leak-ever-is-slowly-coming-to-light/ I don't like the idea of anyone taking care of any data at all .... jaclaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookie32 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, jaclaz said: Well, you never know. Until a short time ago I would have pointed out the Swedish (oops, only a coincidence) as being (both as a people and as a government) among the most serious, rigorous and attentive people of the EU, with an advanced and diffused culture, especially related to modern technology, and they partnered with IBM (I mean, not a new startup founded by you and me to disrupt something), still: https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/2017/07/swedish-transport-agency-worst-known-governmental-leak-ever-is-slowly-coming-to-light/ I don't like the idea of anyone taking care of any data at all .... jaclaz Well, I might of known you would show this one....... trust you.... Never said it was perfect here either....human error or incompetence always are a apart of the equation...it is scary that such a blunder could occur.... BTW I am a Brit living in Sweden..... You can be sure of one thing...more heads will roll... bookie32 Edited July 25, 2017 by bookie32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaclaz Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, bookie32 said: BTW I am a Brit living in Sweden..... bookie32 Well, in the UK Government and NHS have - like many other British well established traditions - a long history of data leaks, at the time of the BIG one at least they saved a lot on cloud infrastructure and managed to do it with just a couple DVD's: https://wiki.openrightsgroup.org/wiki/Discgate but they are seemingly quickly evolving https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/28/health_firm_fined_over_data_leak/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/security-breach-fears-26-million-nhs-patients/ https://medconfidential.org/about/ jaclaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinifera Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 mmm swede chicks are beautiful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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