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Windows 10 - Deeper Impressions


xper

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Used a procedure with Boot Camp to create a thumb drive with Windows drivers.  Installed the drivers on 32-bit 14371 and now there are no missing drivers in Win 10.  14372 installed cleanly and no drivers were lost in the process.  However, got another call from the MS Scammer that the Windows PC was sending error messages.  I asked him what operating system was sending the error message and he didn't know but insisted that he was legal and needed to fix my computer.  Told him to remove me from his call list.  It's been a busy day for the MS Fast Track.  Yup, more smiles.  Oh, 14372 seems to be working!?

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6 hours ago, JorgeA said:

The fad for ignoring user's clearly stated preferences is spreading

I guess because it's just before dawn here now, but my free-associating mind imagined a grim, serious group of grizzled hikers working their way slowly and carefully up an ice-covered ridge toward a mountain summit, when suddenly one loses his grip, starting a long fall down the steep, slippery slope.  Of course, that hiker is attached by rope to all the others, so one by one they're being pulled off their feet...  One still standing is thinking, "I knew I should have brought my hang glider..."

-Noel

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12 hours ago, BudwS said:

Used a procedure with Boot Camp to create a thumb drive with Windows drivers.  Installed the drivers on 32-bit 14371 and now there are no missing drivers in Win 10.  14372 installed cleanly and no drivers were lost in the process. 

Have you put into writing the procedure that you use to create that thumb drive with Windows drivers? I assume you get the drivers from the manufacturers?

This is interesting and readers in a similar situation may wish to do what you did. :)

--JorgeA

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8 hours ago, JorgeA said:

Have you put into writing the procedure that you use to create that thumb drive with Windows drivers? I assume you get the drivers from the manufacturers?

This is interesting and readers in a similar situation may wish to do what you did. :)

--JorgeA

This is the link to the procedure.  https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204923 

On the "Install the downloaded Windows support software" section, 4. and 5. were slightly different for me.  Got a message that said I should have Windows 7 for this to work.  However, another window popped up which gave the option to install in compatibility mode.  Selected that and all the drivers installed that were missing for Win 10.  Looked like Win drivers created by Apple to support the Mac hardware for Boot Camp.  This was really a time for smiles.  The 10 year old MacBook with its SSD runs Win 10 Insider 14372 like like it was really good software.  Something like a Pig's ear running like a Silk Purse.  Life is full of surprises.

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On 6/24/2016 at 11:23 PM, JorgeA said:

Dedoimedo found that setting up a new user account in Windows 10 downloaded crapware onto his PC:

Windows 10 user management - Account Savant
 

Just as PC manufacturers get paid a small fee by software vendors to put their programs on newly built computers, I wonder if MSFT gets paid for adding all this stuff to people's already existing Win10 installations.

--JorgeA

I'm pretty skeptical of this one. The user said something about "upgrading" existing Win8.x installs to Win10, and some of the things downloaded are in direct competition with M$. I really can't see M$ shipping Google Play Music with Windows. This is probably residual bloatware from an OEM install of 8.x upgraded to 10. I would love to see a retail 8.x install "upgraded" to 10 and the user creation process wiresharked just to be sure.

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3 hours ago, rn10950 said:

I'm pretty skeptical of this one. The user said something about "upgrading" existing Win8.x installs to Win10, and some of the things downloaded are in direct competition with M$. I really can't see M$ shipping Google Play Music with Windows. This is probably residual bloatware from an OEM install of 8.x upgraded to 10. I would love to see a retail 8.x install "upgraded" to 10 and the user creation process wiresharked just to be sure.

There is a follow on:
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/fight-companies-pushing-nonsense.html

jaclaz
 

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9 hours ago, rn10950 said:

I'm pretty skeptical of this one. The user said something about "upgrading" existing Win8.x installs to Win10, and some of the things downloaded are in direct competition with M$. I really can't see M$ shipping Google Play Music with Windows. This is probably residual bloatware from an OEM install of 8.x upgraded to 10. I would love to see a retail 8.x install "upgraded" to 10 and the user creation process wiresharked just to be sure.

He says he encountered the bloatware in the new user account that he created on his existing Win10 system in order to see what a reader had reported about having trouble creating additional users after the reader upgraded from Windows 8.1:

Quote

A bunch of weeks ago, someone emailed me, informing of a potentially big problem with user management on Windows 10. Namely, after upgrading from Windows 8.1, the person had trouble creating additional users. Apparently, there is an issue with the user profile format and whatnot. That definitely sounds tricky.

FWIW, he goes on to describe the process he went through to create a new account:
 

Quote

When you start the wizard for a new account, you will be asked to provide the email or phone of the person that you want to add. As you can imagine, this option means you will end up with an online account. No, don't want.

If you want a local account, as you should, you still have one more hurdle. You will still be asked to setup an online account, so pay attention. You actually want the option at the bottom of the window. Then you can do the normal thing. Again, I like how the online account is advertised - Microsoft services are all better and more personal. What? What does that mean? Better how? More personal how? Has anyone read this sentence and actually felt inspired?

This will complete the creation of the user. The next step is to log off your current user, and try the new one, or you can just switch, but that will also lock existing programs and files in use. To actually log off, hit the user name at the top of the menu.

The login took several minutes, as Windows 10 was busy preparing the user environment. What this effectively means is, if you have an Internet connection, Windows 10 will download all sorts of useless stuff and populate your account. As you can see from the desktop screenshot, all sorts of crap have been added to the system. Now, why would I ever be interested in these promo semi-adware semi-spyware nonsense programs? Google Play Music on a desktop? What?

If I get the chance to, I may try this procedure and see if the same thing happens on my machine. Or maybe somebody else will beat me to the punch. :)

--JorgeA

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Steve Gibson weighs in on Windows generally :yes: and Windows 10 specifically :no: :
 

Quote

Steve: And so this is a good segue for me to talk a little bit about my relationship with Windows. I think people may have gotten the wrong idea. Sometimes I'm at fault for being a little too glib and sort of assuming...

Leo: Well, you did say Windows 10 was a turd.

Steve: A flying turd.

Leo: Oh, I'm sorry, a flying turd.

Steve: I did. I did early on.

Leo: That was Windows 10, not necessarily Windows in general.

Steve: Well, yeah. And so I want everyone to understand. I don't hate Windows. I love Windows. I have a multi-decade massive investment in Windows. And it is today, remains the majority operating system, with more than half of the market share, even when you include iOS and Android, the large mobile platforms. And if you look at only desktop, it's at 83.6%.

So, I mean, so my whole deal is that I want to be able to write software which helps people, is useful. And I'm able to do that for a greater percentage of all users if I'm writing for Windows. So even today I'm not regretting the investment that I made. I'm not wishing that I knew how to program one of the much lesser desktop operating system platforms. I'm 100% happy with my knowledge and understanding of Windows and my past with it.

My complaint is that my needs are at odds with Microsoft's needs. And it's why I'm on XP still today and didn't move. It would be nice if I didn't have to completely rebuild a system from scratch in order to move. So certainly a compelling idea, a concept in Windows 10 is that it will now just evolve as it is, rather than you needing to just effectively start over. But it is a problem for me that it's Microsoft's closed source commercial profit center. And through the years they have needed to create new ones because we all know upgrade revenue was what fueled Microsoft historically.

And so the tension that exists with me is only that it's changing for Microsoft's purposes, not for mine. And this matters to me because it's not a toy. I don't just bounce around with it and use it for displaying social networking and Instagrams and things. I mean, it is a tool. I need it to work, and I need it to be reliable, and I need it to be stable. And so, for example, when Microsoft says, as they are with Windows 10, "the most secure Windows ever," well, that's complete nonsense.

They also said that about XP. And as we talked about at the time, it's impossible to declare a platform secure at its birth. You may want it to be secure, but it's up to history to prove that. And if XP is any example, it was the biggest security disaster we've ever known. Code Red and Nimda and the MSBlast worm and, I mean, it provided material for this podcast endlessly because it was a disaster. And Windows 10 will get fixed and patched. But as we know, with security, leaving things alone rather than constantly changing them is the way for them to be secure, rather than constantly adding stuff.

And then on top of that, there's my feeling that I've talked about before, that the role of an operating system is to provide a file system for managing files, manage memory, manage applications, create a foundation for applications to run on, and provide I/O and networking services. That's what it's for. But it's the way that Microsoft is evolving it in their desperation to move people to something new. None of those things are of use to me. So as Windows 10 acquires increasing market share, we'll continue covering it. There's nothing there that it offers me. And so I will be, as I've said, moving to Windows 7 at some point.

And again, I think that people want me to love the Windows they've chosen. And I'm not going to. I love Windows itself. But there's nothing that 10 or 8 or 8.1 have for me. And I'm moving to 7 because I do need 64 bits so that I can use a lot more RAM. And as protocols evolve, I do need to be able to be using the latest protocols and crypto suites and have those available. So there are things that push me. But in the case of an operating system platform, I'm definitely not in a hurry to be the first out there with arrows in my back because for me it's a tool. And what I just want is stability.

So anyway, I just - I wanted people to understand that I don't hate Windows 10 at all. You know, the fact that I created Never10 isn't a statement at all about Windows and Windows 10. It was that Microsoft was pushing people. And we see instance after instance of this push that Microsoft has to move everyone to 10 not being about what's best for the user. It's what's best for Microsoft. And that's a problem. So Never10 just gives people some control over that.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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On 6/25/2016 at 9:01 AM, JorgeA said:

Have you put into writing the procedure that you use to create that thumb drive with Windows drivers? I assume you get the drivers from the manufacturers?

This is interesting and readers in a similar situation may wish to do what you did. :)

--JorgeA

Ok, now something new and totally unexpected occurred after the Boot Camp Manager was installed.  Apple software update must have been part of the update because Apple Software update started up and gave the opportunity to install Apple apps like iTunes and iCloud and the Apple iTunes Store.  Has anyone seen this happen on Win 10?  Pages and Numbers are available under iCloud!!!!!  If Apple takes over Win 10!!!????  A whole new situation to think about!

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On Sunday, June 26, 2016 at 2:28 AM, rn10950 said:

I really can't see M$ shipping Google Play Music with Windows.

I tried to duplicate the procedure that Dedoimedo used to create a new user account, down to making it a local account.

I did not get any of the bloatware that he reported. Instead, I got a fairly standard Win10 account, with some oddities. Most of the default settings were in place, including allowing zillions of apps to access the camera and microphone; and the Start Menu had all those tiles in it. OneDrive was back, compared to the main account where I had disabled it. The Windows Store icon was back on the Taskbar and the IE icon that I'd placed there in the original account was not. The Taskbar itself was at the default fat width.

However, some things surprisingly made it over to the new account from the original one. Classic Shell was installed (although the custom Win7-style Start Button was not), as were EMET and Firefox.

Bottom line: I'm not sure why Dedoimedo would get third-party bloatware on a newly created (secondary) Win10 user account, unless the programs already existed (factory-installed or manually installed) on the original Win10 account. OTOH this could all be some sort of randomization strategy to keep the skeptics off-balance, along the same lines of what we've speculated with respect to some Win7 users getting suddenly downgraded to Windows 10 despite their Windows Update settings while others remain unscathed.

--JorgeA

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Perhaps they only hassle bloggers and people whose uploaded bank account information shows they have some extra disposable income.  Just the fact that they're already running Windows 10 already says something about their gullibility.  ;-)

In all seriousness, is there any possibility that particular kinds of computers (e.g,. a Lenovo Laptop or a Samsung Tablet, etc.) might get certain software, per agreements between Microsoft and the makers of those systems?  Microsoft would consider that extra "services" are being provided to those users whose computer maker is now in bed with them.

-Noel

Edited by NoelC
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Strangely enough, some good news ;):
http://www.seattletimes.com/business/microsoft/microsoft-draws-flak-for-pushing-windows-10-on-pc-users/

Quote

A few days after Microsoft released Windows 10 to the public last year, Teri Goldstein’s computer started trying to download and install the new operating system.

The update, which she says she didn’t authorize, failed. Instead, the computer she uses to run her Sausalito, Calif., travel-agency business slowed to a crawl. It would crash, she says, and be unusable for days at a time.

“I had never heard of Windows 10,” Goldstein said. “Nobody ever asked me if I wanted to update.”

When outreach to Microsoft’s customer support didn’t fix the issue, Goldstein took the software giant to court, seeking compensation for lost wages and the cost of a new computer.

She won. Last month, Microsoft dropped an appeal and Goldstein collected a $10,000 judgment from the company.

The company denies wrongdoing, and a spokeswoman said Microsoft halted its appeal to avoid the expense of further litigation.

jaclaz
 

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