Windows 10 - Deeper Impressions

[JorgeA]

23 hours ago, NoelC said:

Your comment got me to wondering how Win 10 stacks up...  I just looked at my Win 10 test system, which I have configured to be a full development system but which has gotten far less use than my actual Win 8.1 workstation.

My scheduled task counts:

• Win 7 scheduled tasks:     101 tasks (32 disabled)
• Win 8.1 scheduled tasks:  185 tasks (89 disabled)
• Win 10 scheduled tasks:   199 tasks (121 disabled)

Interesting trend, eh?  It's a way I hadn't thought of before to quantify how much Microsoft's new work is drifting from what I need in an OS.

That sure is interesting. It gives the lie to those who claim that Windows 10 is faster than Windows 7. By the laws of physics, it cannot possibly be, considering the number of tasks that it's weighed down with.

--JorgeA

[xman charl]

11 hours ago, Dibya said:

Now come to productivity everyone knows XP is userfriendly and much more productive OS . If you ever used corporate networks, You can found XP printing , coping , using every thing instantly where 7 takes much times.

State agency where I worked for many years in California, had over 300 cpus running xp.

Trip to Italy  last year, stayed at 5 different hotels, all had xp cpus. TVs about 25 channels. Radio stations 5 or 6.

Steve Gibson, GRC.com, still uses xp for main OS.

Do not see xp going away in the furture.

Charl

[NoelC]

45 minutes ago, JorgeA said:

That sure is interesting. It gives the lie to those who claim that Windows 10 is faster than Windows 7. By the laws of physics, it cannot possibly be, considering the number of tasks that it's weighed down with.

It's a long-standing marketing gimmick by Microsoft.

For 99% of folks on the planet, a freshly installed Windows is far and away more agile than an old installation, so saying "the new one is faster!" is defensible.  What folks who believe the hype don't always realize is that a fresh installation of the older system would be even faster.

And we even see that Microsoft has now codified the ridiculous concept of reinstalling the OS regularly!

Now you know one more of the reasons I'm fond of saying Microsoft is adept at managing (their) mediocrity into something sellable.

Recall that last year I did head to head comparisons with Win 7 and Win 10 as freshly installed on the same hardware.  In almost every category (except as I recall 3D rendering) Win 7 outpaced Win 10 by a good bit.  And it actually feels faster to use Win 7 for normal desktop operations.  Mostly I think that's because File Explorer in Windows 10 seems to be burdened with a bunch more overhead for some reason.

Everything I've seen with the newest builds leads me to believe they're more burdened than ever.  The entire army of Microsoft minions are working to hang more stuff all over the Windows 10 kernel, and they're hard to keep up with.  A freshly upgraded Win 10 Redstone 1 build that I've re-tweaked very aggressively settles to having 4 more processes running than a nice Win 10 build 10586 setup (46 in my case vs. 42).  So you're right in observing that it's not getting faster and lighter by any means.

-Noel

Edited June 3, 2016 by NoelC

[Lucifer1945]

On ‎6‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 11:36 AM, NoelC said:

It's a long-standing marketing gimmick by Microsoft.

For 99% of folks on the planet, a freshly installed Windows is far and away more agile than an old installation, so saying "the new one is faster!" is defensible.  What folks who believe the hype don't always realize is that a fresh installation of the older system would be even faster.

Now you know one more of the reasons I'm fond of saying Microsoft is adept at managing mediocrity into something sellable.

Recall that last year I did head to head comparisons with Win 7 and Win 10 as freshly installed on the same hardware.  In almost every category (except as I recall 3D rendering) Win 7 outpaced Win 10 by a good bit.  And it actually feels faster to use Win 7 for normal desktop operations.  Mostly I think that's because File Explorer in Windows 10 seems to be burdened with a bunch more overhead for some reason.

Everything I've seen with the newest builds leads me to believe they're more burdened than ever.  The entire army of Microsoft minions are working to hang more stuff all over the Windows 10 kernel, and they're hard to keep up with.  A freshly upgraded Win 10 Redstone 1 build that I've re-tweaked very aggressively settles to having 4 more processes running than a nice Win 10 build 10586 setup (46 in my case vs. 42).  So you're right in observing that it's not getting faster and lighter by any means.

-Noel

Looking forward to your message back when you get the time for a proper response. Tragically this forum or my present browser wont let me open certain pages. I'm going to go ahead and drop my guide here to possibly help the community. I gave it a bit more polish than what I shared in PM. EDIT: To anyone else reading this, I'm interested in taking the optimization further. For example I tried implementing the powershell commands I found on this forum awhile ago as admin with zero success. EDIT 2: This guide is optimized for GAMERS. Some of the suggestions disable file sharing over LAN as I'm personally don't use this feature and probably most gamers. If you operate with virtual machines or heavy programs like photoshop or lightroom for example keep virtual memory on unless you know you will never exceed your ram pool.


Edit: Youtube title: How to speed up windows 10 the ultimate guide (most guides suck)

Edited June 6, 2016 by Lucifer1945
A shout out to everyone else

[NoelC]

Looks like great info.  I'm glad you posted it here.

Though I knew about the NTFS self-healing facility (which was introduced in the time of Win 8), I didn't know the specific fsutil command to query/control it.  Thank you for teaching me something.

I personally would certainly NOT want to turn off the use of the pagefile (and my system has 48 GB of RAM).  The operation of a virtual memory operating system for general purpose computing is complex and any number of things could go wrong if deprived of a paging file.  Plus I imagine it hasn't been tested terribly much with the alternative settings.

Looks like a lot of good information just by skimming it and I hope I can get to reading it all at some point soon.  Unfortunately real work beckons...

-Noel

[Lucifer1945]

2 hours ago, NoelC said:

Looks like great info.  I'm glad you posted it here.

Though I knew about the NTFS self-healing facility (which was introduced in the time of Win 8), I didn't know the specific fsutil command to query/control it.  Thank you for teaching me something.

I personally would certainly NOT want to turn off the use of the pagefile (and my system has 48 GB of RAM).  The operation of a virtual memory operating system for general purpose computing is complex and any number of things could go wrong if deprived of a paging file.  Plus I imagine it hasn't been tested terribly much with the alternative settings.

Looks like a lot of good information just by skimming it and I hope I can get to reading it all at some point soon.  Unfortunately real work beckons...

-Noel

My guide I should note is optimized for non local area network or server (virtual machine) operations. 48gbs implies you aren't getting your full bandwidth through multi channel dims, unless its a notebook with a proprietary motherboard firmware which is definitely DDR4. As I understand it bandwidth in such an environment is a big deal and I read that you in fact do use it. As for turning off the pagefile I have 16gbs and for what I'm doing even if there are memory leaks I'm not concerned. For what its worth ive disabled page file for years across several windows OS's and the worst thing to ever happen is my game crashed because it had a memory leak, back when I had inferior ram, but also games were much smaller. Obviously if you do any sort of professional work its best to leave it on unless you have a stupidly high amount of ram like some of these new DDR4 8 dim motherboards. Looking forward to what you can add to this list, I can tell you know your stuff. That goes for anyone else as well. I don't care how small it is, its about potentiating the overall effect. We should eventually polish it and design it for multiple user types and grant it sticky status credit going to all involved so getting as much as possible out of this new fatty isn't scattered all across the net like some esoteric easter egg hunt.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Lucifer1945

[vinifera]

12 hours ago, Dibya said:

HE is telling Win7 is Less bloated than XP , which cannot be believed.

no i'm not, youre just too blind to read and a bit too "down the hill" to grasp what was written
you are crapping how you nlited your xp to 200 MB, great, i wrote you win7 can be also limited to 700 MB or less
-
you are crapping on win7 speed vs xp, they are almost the same, as WRITTEN if you run any pc bought in 06-07
the only thing XP is faster is in D2D which was changed in NT6, but since everything goes over D3D (DWM/MIL)
there is no slowness, while your precious XP constantly uses CPU for everything
-
you're crapping about easier modding of i386, which as again i WROTE, isn't
and again WROTE that you can't compare NT6 vs 5, as they have different approach
but for the sakes of argument, i386=archive and de-archive every single file, wim=one giant archive which can be edited with ordinary archiver
-
safety ? black hat hackers ? - gimme a f'kin break, XP can break like a twig, it has zero backbone safety
even its firewall is dog s***
-
now you write 2000 can't run some XP stuff, well hello, neither XP can some made for NT6+
it will be phased out very fast, it is obsolete foundation
-
i'm not christian too, it was just one of those generic expressions - f*** it
-
now i'm done with this as this is win10 topic

 

Edited June 3, 2016 by vinifera
sex

[NoelC]

1 hour ago, Lucifer1945 said:

48gbs implies you aren't getting your full bandwidth through multi channel dims, unless its a notebook with a proprietary motherboard firmware which is definitely DDR4.

No, it's optimal for a Dell Precision T5500 workstation.  For some reason the motherboard design to suit a pair of x5690 Xeons uses 3 channels and by matching DIMMs (6 sets of 8 GB altogether) I get max bandwidth possible.  I'm also using NUMA.

-Noel

Edited June 3, 2016 by NoelC

[Lucifer1945]

28 minutes ago, NoelC said:

No, it's optimal for a Dell Precision T5500 workstation.  For some reasons the motherboard design to suit x5690 Xeons uses 3 channels and by matching DIMMs (6 sets of 8 GB altogether) I get max bandwidth possible.  I'm also using NUMA.

-Noel

Strange. Havent seen triple channel in years. Then again I don't follow server computing closely. Looks like a cheap machine(500ish now), my desktop is about 2k. My number one concern is getting "system and compressed memory" turned off as the standard way is broken as of the last windows update. You cant delete the file because theres no way to end the service. It would have to decompile first, but windows help desk when allowed remote access couldn't figure it out. They called me and said they are working on the bug. First thing they did was look for corruption. sfc /scannow found some, but it was a false alarm because I forcibly deleted cortannas folder after ending the task with admin rights. The OS at the time was literally less than 24 hours old and nothing was done to encourage corruption whatsoever, and I noticed in task manager Cortana service was revived thus proving there wasn't any. Any way to fix this? You seem the wizard to do it. Its constantly eating 1.1-1.9% of my CPU so its a big deal especially on battery. Source file "ntoskrnl". Hell you are a software engineer, maybe you can write a simple program that can forcibly remove or disable it at start up. Its located in the "System32" folder. Some people with business class notebooks advertising a set battery life were threatening litigation on microsofts page if they didn't fix it. I don't blame them honestly.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Lucifer1945

[NoelC]

No, the Dell workstation line is anything but cheap.  The RAM is all ECC, for example.  Different things happen in the high-end Xeon motherboards than with the more typcal PCs in the pursuit of high throughput.  My Memory Mark scores are right near the top of the list of all the T5500s tested on the PassMark database, so the configuration checks out.  The system is a few years old but still holds its own.

With regard to Windows 10 (in a VM) I've seen system integrity problems pop up all through the life of Win 10.  At the moment I have my 10586.318 and 14342.1000 test setups testing perfectly clean.  I need to test the latest, but haven't had enough time lately.

I have actually only minimally tested any recent Redstone 1 releases so far...  

Can the memory compression of which you speak be determined to be active simply by the presence of the "Memory Compression" process?  Or does that hang around all the time?

-Noel

Edited June 3, 2016 by NoelC

[Formfiller]

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWOoooooooooooooooooooooWWWWWWWWWW:

It’s not possible to opt-out Windows 10 anymore!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/01/windows_10_nagware_no_way_out/

You can only postpone the date and that’s all!

HOW THE f*** IS THAT LEGAL? I guess the EU and US bodies don't give a f*** becuase MS supplies them with the W10 phone-home data. f*** this company. Seriously, f*** IT.

Sure, most companies see their customers just as walking wallets/ad receivers, but I have never seen a company treating it’s existing users so openly as cattle as NuMS does with W10.

Anyone have a Windows exit strategy ready? Somewhere you have just draw the f****** line. I would rather use a mid 90s Linux distro and eat something out of Stallman’s foot than using Windows 10 after that. W8 was bad, but this completely sinks it.

Sorry for the swearing, but dang! Even during the worst of the W8 times I didn't expect they would sink SO low.

I truly miss Ballmer nowadays.

The W8 era was full of stupid, but Ballmer never came across as truly malicious, more like desperate, or “throw s*** at wall, see what sticks”.

Nadella though seems to be a genuine as***** with conviction and heartfelt f***-you attitude.

I can’ stand this scammy, scrawny, slimey wannabe hipster.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Formfiller

[Lucifer1945]

9 minutes ago, NoelC said:

No, the Dell workstation line is anything but cheap.  The RAM is all ECC, for example.  Different things happen in the high-end Xeon motherboards than with the more typcal PCs in the pursuit of high throughput.  My Memory Mark scores are right near the top of the list of all the T5500s tested on the PassMark database, so the configuration checks out.  The system is a few years old but still holds its own.

With regard to Windows 10 (in a VM) I've seen system integrity problems pop up all through the life of Win 10.  At the moment I have my 10586.318 and 14342.1000 test setups testing perfectly clean.  I need to test the latest, but haven't had enough time lately.

I have actually only minimally tested any recent Redstone 1 releases so far...  

Can the memory compression of which you speak be determined to be active simply by the presence of the "Memory Compression" process?  Or does that hang around all the time?

-Noel

I'm assuming ECC means buffered memory which is slower and reduces corruption. I only know what it is because I also owned a mac. Never heard of redstone 1 so ill have to look that up now. As for the last question, it can be disabled, normally. The service itself is capable of being terminated on previous editions of windows 10. I know because ive done it on my desktop. Edit: My OS which probably has a little corruption given its a overclocking testbed, and my motherboard is on its 4th RMA (MSI sucks, finally contacted the supervisor for giving me bunk hardware) probably has it disabled sitting off in the corner of my room as proof, ever that d*** motherboard arrives. I told them to take their sweet time and get it right. I recorded each time it had symptoms and sent it to his email.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Lucifer1945

[NoelC]

Redstone 1 is just the name for the latest Windows 10 releases (e.g., builds with numbers in the 14000s).

What specific build of Win 10 are you running?

-Noel

[Lucifer1945]

8 minutes ago, NoelC said:

Redstone 1 is just the name for the latest Windows 10 releases (e.g., builds with numbers in the 14000s).

What specific build of Win 10 are you running?

-Noel

Home latest update. Both notebook and desktop, though the desktop has been unoperational for basically 2 months so the bug introduced in windows update has yet to afflict it. 10586.318 for notebook.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Lucifer1945

[NoelC]

I guess you're not running pre-release builds then?  Run WinVer to see the specifics.

My best tweaked system is the latest update of the released Win 10 Pro system, and on that I see no evidence of Memory Compression.

The latest pre-release build I've tested is this one, and I do see the Memory Compression process running there.

-Noel

P.S., ECC is Error Correcting RAM.  My throughput seems to be up there with the best of them, if, say, Photoshop operations are any measure.