JorgeA Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/Faulty-update-time-And-again-W10Yeah, I know I am wasting my darn time there. But the Office problem I described there really happened (an update from WU crippled Outlook 2010 and so I had to hide it) So I thought it would be a great opportunity to see what the apologizers will come up this time with to still rationalize W10's behavior in such case (where this is not possible anymore)Well. My point is whether 10 will be managed differently such that the problematic updates won't cause the same kind of issues that make people turn them off. In other words, they may use more rigorous testing and the insider preview program to catch problems before they go out. You see, MS will just stop producing buggy updates! No need to worry! Good points you make there. I take note of the pathetic attempts made in that thread to defend the forced-updates policy. I doubt that the Insiders program will be an adequate substitute for a professional testing department. I, for one, may (or may not) stay in the Insiders but one thing is for sure and that is that, given the monitoring/tracking, I will not be doing anything on Windows 10 that involves personal or business information. Therefore I won't be installing Office or any other program I might use for home or work purposes, which limits the amount of data Microsoft will be getting from me regarding compatibility issues and crashes. --JorgeA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 There is a sense of dread out there regarding the invasion takeover launch of Windows 10, and enterprising companies are stepping in to provide an easy-to-use safety net: Worried about upgrading to Windows 10? EaseUS System GoBack Free provides you with an escape route Just for the record/FYI I had a quick peek at that package (and didn't like what I saw ):http://reboot.pro/topic/20601-win10-downgrade/ jaclaz You're right that it's a less than perfect package, but the idea is that Windows 10 might be generating a wave of such "safety net" applications for people who are leery of Win10. --JorgeA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agorima Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/07/25/windows-10-automatic-update-problems/ Whoever came up with the idiotic idea of "Windows as a service" should be fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelC Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I'm sure Wall Street loves him (or her). Get people to pay over and over again for something they used to only pay you once for... Now you don't have to work any more and you still get paid. -Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Microsoft's rolling Windows 10 launch: What's coming next Nadella said the initial Windows 10 rollout would happen in three phases. The initial upgrade phase starting July 29, which is focused on getting Windows 7 and 8 users to upgrade, plus "retail execution." [...][emphasis added] Perhaps not what Nadella meant by "retail execution," but Win10 just might administer the final blow to the retail market for Windows, and for PCs generally. --JorgeA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I'm sure Wall Street loves him (or her). Get people to pay over and over again for something they used to only pay you once for... Now you don't have to work any more and you still get paid. -Noel My take on that article (which BTW was a fantastic read) is that MSFT shareholders should feel some jitters over what's shaping up for the company's flagship product. Forced mass updates are a disaster waiting to happen. Lots of good quotable material in the piece, but here's the one that I found most compelling: ...Microsoft is also being overly dictatorial. By all means enable automatic updates by default, but give users the flexibility to change this for non-security related categories or offer the ability to outsource certain driver updates from Windows Update to third party software like the Nvidia GeForce Experience. These companies are specialists in their own products. Ultimately it all comes down to balance: security Vs flexibility, control Vs choice. For my money, with just four days to launch, Windows 10 hasn’t found that. Interesting angle on that "dictatorial" thing. To borrow terms from political philosophy, Windows had always been to a significant extent a "libertarian" system, where a few ground rules were set and people (users) were otherwise free to customize their experience to suit their own needs and preferences. But in recent years, starting with the introduction of Windows 8 and accelerating with Windows 10, the company is taking on an increasingly "authoritarian" stance toward its users, removing choices in important areas ranging from the look-and-feel of the OS to whether and how it will be updated, and generally pushing its presence more aggressively upon the user (read: Microsoft Account, Cortana with Bing, and Windows Store). --JorgeA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formfiller Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) From the Forbes article: Given Windows 10 updates cannot be stopped the most obvious solution is to uninstall third party driver management and hand it all over to Windows Update to avoid clashes. This potentially simplifies matters by providing an all-in-one update service, but it does mean taking away control from specialist companies over their own products.A second approach is something many readers mentioned in comments on my previous post when Microsoft confirmed Windows 10 updates were unstoppable: hack it.Initially this might work, but in April senior Microsoft product marketing manager Helen Harmetz said during a Windows 10 webinar that users who forcibly stopped any Windows 10 updates would eventually have their security updates cut off. Microsoft has yet to confirm this brutal enforcement policy in official documentation, but if this is the path it chooses that would ultimately make any form of update hack pointless. I’ve seen the tweaks but Microsoft has previously stated there would be a punishment in cutting off security updates for those who don’t accept all Windows 10 updates in a timely fashion.http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/07/25/windows-10-automatic-update-problems/?commentId=comment_blogAndPostId/blog/comment/2907-12714-6803 Are they completey out of their rotten mind?!?!?!?!?!!!Does that mean if I stop Windows Update by disabling its service for a while, Microsoft will punish me by stopping all Windows updates in the future?Sick ! No really, THEM. We are their customers not inmates. This takes it way too far. This is not funny anymore. Edited July 27, 2015 by Formfiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaclaz Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 By all means enable automatic updates by default, but give users the flexibility to change this for non-security related categories or offer the ability to outsource certain driver updates from Windows Update to third party software like the Nvidia GeForce Experience. These companies are specialists in their own products.Yeah, sure, as if the good Nvidia guys haven't botched enough systems with their crazy drivers experience.I do understand how since a few years a graphic card is more similar to a "complete" computer than to anything else and that managing the firmware and drivers for it while attemtong to squeeze all the juice from the hardware must be complex, but raise your hand those that have never experienced an issue with Nvidia cards because of the crappy drivers or because they were updated or because they failed to update or updated but removed 1/ to 3/4th if your settings. jaclaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelC Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) I’ve seen the tweaks but Microsoft has previously stated there would be a punishment in cutting off security updates for those who don’t accept all Windows 10 updates in a timely fashion. Are they completey out of their ... mind?!?!?!?!?!!! Crazy like a fox. I personally think it will actually be worse than what's quoted. I believe a system that is "cut off" from updates will eventually expire / deactivate. Gabe Aul has said as much re: Insiders who now are running Windows 10 without having upgraded from an older license and who choose to no longer participate in the Insider program. It's entirely technically possible that any given build has (and will have) a hard drop dead date built in, and your whole ability to continue to run Windows depends on you continuing to say "up to date". We certainly know for sure that the technical previews have had such dates in them - it's been stated. What makes anyone think that the "RTM" will be any different whatsoever? What else would you think "Windows as a service" means? Be afraid, be VERY afraid, of "upgrading". -Noel Edited July 26, 2015 by NoelC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Microsoft has supposedly taken care to preserve compatibility of existing programs with Windows 10. Now, though, we appear to have a case where a major vendor's attempt to make its sofrtware compatible with Win10 actually broke compatibility with Windows 7 and 8: Norton’s beta update 22.5.0.124 meant for Windows 10 sends Win 7, Win 8.1 PCs in a loopy reboot Norton for Windows 10 is NOT a box-borking beta, insists Symantec Leading antivirus maker Norton had recently updated its NIS/NAV/N360 to version 22.5.0.124 to add compatibility for the upcoming Microsoft’s Windows 10 operating system. However this beta release is ruining PCs which have Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 installed on them. When updated to this beta release, the Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 powered PC’s either went into a loopy reboot or did not start with a clean boot. A recent update to Norton designed to add compatibility for Windows 10 is incompatible with mainstream Windows releases, according to some users. Symantec is denying that these issues are anything worse than teething problems, although this has so far failed to placate critics. Users are loudly complaining about borked Win 8. --JorgeA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 By all means enable automatic updates by default, but give users the flexibility to change this for non-security related categories or offer the ability to outsource certain driver updates from Windows Update to third party software like the Nvidia GeForce Experience. These companies are specialists in their own products.Yeah, sure, as if the good Nvidia guys haven't botched enough systems with their crazy drivers experience.I do understand how since a few years a graphic card is more similar to a "complete" computer than to anything else and that managing the firmware and drivers for it while attemtong to squeeze all the juice from the hardware must be complex, but raise your hand those that have never experienced an issue with Nvidia cards because of the crappy drivers or because they were updated or because they failed to update or updated but removed 1/ to 3/4th if your settings. jaclaz <raising hand> I guess I've been fortunate in that respect. I use GPUs for a distributed-computing project, and sometimes a new Nvidia driver is slower (creates less throughput) than the previous one, but that's about the extent of it for me. After some bad experiences, though, I do shy away from downloading AMD drivers via Microsoft. Now I download those, too, directly from the manufacturer. --JorgeA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
win2kreviver Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Very interesting...... I believe that MS is: 1. As Noel C. said "crazy like a fox", not only force-feeding updates (to have an experience across all platforms), but to start charging what they do in Europe if you have a television what is "annual license fees" for use of their software to increase revenue, e.g. Windows as a Service.2. As the "Store" has no realistic way of raising real revenue, it will use "optional updates", to add user features that used to be part of Windows. Such as the Windows 8.1 update.3. Another way to raise revenue is to block third party software from being on Windows without paying a fee to allow it to be installed. This will be another way for the "same user experience". Just look at the Nvidia update issues.4. As it is now, I will hang on to my other licenses and not lose them, come 29 July and for a while until this all shakes out. I thought Windows 10 had some promise, I was looking towards it. Now I am not so sure...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Norton/Symantec is going all-in for the NuMicrosoft model of removed features, hideous interfaces, and keeping customers in the dark as to product updates: http://community.norton.com/en/forums/block-all-traffic-removed-newest-norton-360-firewall https://community.norton.com/en/forums/please-bring-back-network-security-map-feature#comments http://community.norton.com/en/forums/new-ui-joke http://community.norton.com/en/forums/thank-you-choosing-norton-360-im-already-using-it The process of introducing the new product version was so vague and opaque, I did think my computer had been attacked by fake AV malware. --JorgeA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpalone Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) I may be wrong, but I can not imagine the corporate world, accepting this massive intrusion into their way of dealing with tech. It may turn out that the year of the Linux Desktop actually happens.I do recall something in this thread stating that corporate was being cut a little slack in the forced update timing. But, they were still required to update. I agree, it looks like a mighty big train wreck is coming. Sure am glad that I am on the outside looking in.Probably a good time to short msft stock. This will not end well for them. Edited July 27, 2015 by bpalone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formfiller Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Norton/Symantec is going all-in for the NuMicrosoft model of removed features, hideous interfaces, and keeping customers in the dark as to product updates: http://community.norton.com/en/forums/block-all-traffic-removed-newest-norton-360-firewall https://community.norton.com/en/forums/please-bring-back-network-security-map-feature#comments http://community.norton.com/en/forums/new-ui-joke http://community.norton.com/en/forums/thank-you-choosing-norton-360-im-already-using-it The process of introducing the new product version was so vague and opaque, I did think my computer had been attacked by fake AV malware. --JorgeA They are copying NuMicrosoft of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't some subcouncious deep-seated sexual connotation with all this. Users all around the world being forced to accept any updates all the time, if they decline them you punish them, you can change their UIs at whim for something far worse and if they complain THEY are at fault and you can call them names (luddite! afraid of change!) You don't need much fantasy to see a sado-masochist theme going on there. It's no secret that many dominatrix-customers are well-off business people: http://www.alternet.org/story/155087/sex_escape%3A_why_do_men_go_to_dominatrixes Olivia Severine, a transsexual dominatrix living in San Francisco, says most of her clients were “very high-powered” men weighed down by responsibility. “They came to see me as a brief escape when no one was looking at them for direction or leadership,” she says. “The time with me is when they were told what to do, what to feel and how to act … and all the weight of their careers, families, lives, is lifted from them for a cherished few hours.” Mistress Shae Flanigan, a Los Angeles dominatrix, says her clients are “CEOs, high-ranking managers, lawyers and wonderfully brilliant men from all over the business spectrum.” What they have in common is “that they come to me to create an environment where they don’t need to think,” she says. “Where they can trust me to keep them safe while I weave together an enticing, thrilling, euphoric and painful world where it is literally impossible to think.” It isn’t that these guys wish they had less real-world power — it’s just, power is stressful, and submission provides a release. “BDSM is a hell of a lot more affordable of a vacation than the Bahamas, I promise you,” says Flanigan. Could it be that all these forcing from software companies in recent time is the result of CEOs and managers acting their pent-up BDSM-fantasies on the customers? Sadism on the customers to make all the masochist whipping in the studio afterwards all the more exciting and releasing! Edited July 27, 2015 by Formfiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts