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Windows 10 - First Impressions


dencorso

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If Ed MicroBott's description of the process is accurate, then the user will have several chances to bring the downgrade to a screeching halt by declining the license terms.

 

The problem I foresee is that most people won't realize what they're getting into until they're actually in it, by which time it may be too late for them to undo things. Not only is it still unclear (AFAIK) whether you can reactivate your Windows 7 license if you install Win10 and then change your mind, but many users will lack the technical know-how to put things back they way there were before. Somehow I doubt that Microsoft will showcase a handy little button that says, "If you don't like what you're seeing in Windows 10, click here to go back to your previous operating system."

 

--JorgeA

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Somehow I doubt that Microsoft will showcase a handy little button that says, "If you don't like what you're seeing in Windows 10, click here to go back to your previous operating system."

 

Well the actual point is that EVEN IF such handy little button will be showcased in many situation it is VERY likely to fail to restore the previous OS properly, particularly, consider all the people that had originally 8 and that later upgraded to 8.1, a restore from (say) the OEM recovery partition (which surely was not updated) will bring back 8 (and not 8.1) a "system backup" whilst it may restore to a 8.1, will need a lot of space (that most people won't have), those with one of the small tablets with 8.1 and Wimboot have actually Wimboot systems because they have no storage, etc., etc.

Add to this all the possible conflicts with user installed software or partially "botched" systems (imagine as an example that a "common user" has currently deactivated partially - unwantingly - the WMI subsystem though his/her system is running fine in day to day operation and the handy little button actually needs a particular WMI query to succeed...).

 

 

So, personally I would not trust (as I never do) any such automagic tools (even IF they will be provided) and I would go for a "bare metal recovery" capable solution, imaging the current OS as is before starting the update (but his will require some storage space, some knowledge and also some patience, somwthing that many people do not have).  

 

I would like to re-state how:

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/172826-windows-10-first-impressions/page-36#entry1100580

the numbers are so big that even a teeny-tiny unsuccessful rate of this hypothetical handy little button may bring down millions of machines (and Myrphy's Law is ALWAYS around to prove itself right once again).

 

While I sincerely wish everyone to have a successful upgrade :) I would strongly suggest everyone to use the remaining days to prepare a "Plan B" of some kind.

 

 

jaclaz

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Somehow I doubt that Microsoft will showcase a handy little button that says, "If you don't like what you're seeing in Windows 10, click here to go back to your previous operating system."

 

Well the actual point is that EVEN IF such handy little button will be showcased in many situation it is VERY likely to fail to restore the previous OS properly, particularly, consider all the people that had originally 8 and that later upgraded to 8.1, a restore from (say) the OEM recovery partition (which surely was not updated) will bring back 8 (and not 8.1) a "system backup" whilst it may restore to a 8.1, will need a lot of space (that most people won't have), those with one of the small tablets with 8.1 and Wimboot have actually Wimboot systems because they have no storage, etc., etc.

Add to this all the possible conflicts with user installed software or partially "botched" systems (imagine as an example that a "common user" has currently deactivated partially - unwantingly - the WMI subsystem though his/her system is running fine in day to day operation and the handy little button actually needs a particular WMI query to succeed...).

 

 

So, personally I would not trust (as I never do) any such automagic tools (even IF they will be provided) and I would go for a "bare metal recovery" capable solution, imaging the current OS as is before starting the update (but his will require some storage space, some knowledge and also some patience, somwthing that many people do not have).  

 

I would like to re-state how:

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/172826-windows-10-first-impressions/page-36#entry1100580

the numbers are so big that even a teeny-tiny unsuccessful rate of this hypothetical handy little button may bring down millions of machines (and Myrphy's Law is ALWAYS around to prove itself right once again).

 

While I sincerely wish everyone to have a successful upgrade :) I would strongly suggest everyone to use the remaining days to prepare a "Plan B" of some kind.

 

 

jaclaz

 

 

You may not have to image the whole OS, just C:\WINDOWS, the registry and any system folders in the program files folder. (ex: C:\Program Files\Windows NT) MS should do this by default if there is enough space just in case something goes wrong or if the user wants (wishful thinking) to downgrade.

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Well the actual point is that EVEN IF such handy little button will be showcased in many situation it is VERY likely to fail to restore the previous OS properly, particularly, consider all the people that had originally 8 and that later upgraded to 8.1, a restore from (say) the OEM recovery partition (which surely was not updated) will bring back 8 (and not 8.1) a "system backup" whilst it may restore to a 8.1, will need a lot of space (that most people won't have), those with one of the small tablets with 8.1 and Wimboot have actually Wimboot systems because they have no storage, etc., etc.

Add to this all the possible conflicts with user installed software or partially "botched" systems (imagine as an example that a "common user" has currently deactivated partially - unwantingly - the WMI subsystem though his/her system is running fine in day to day operation and the handy little button actually needs a particular WMI query to succeed...).

 

Thanks for pointing out these additional considerations, they make my point stronger. A lot of people will move into Windows 10 either out of curiosity or because they weren't knowledgeable enough to kill the automatic updates, and then (for all the reasons we've given) they'll find themselves stuck with either (at best) an OS they dislike or (at worst) a bricked computer. It's impossible to predict how many will find themselves worse off than before, but it's safe to assume the count will be in the millions. Maybe in the tens or even the hundreds of millions. Then they'll get on their smartphones (ironically) or their friends' computers to post about the disaster and the blogosphere will have a field day reporting on it.

 

The question then will become for how long Microsoft will try to ignore, stonewall, pooh-pooh, or scoff at the problem before they have a full-blown revolt on their hands. I can see Nadella and Myerson getting pushed to the sidelines or forced out altogether like Steven Sinofsky and Julie Larson-Green.

 

Wishful thinking? Only time will tell.

 

--JorgeA

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Does this ever stop?

 

The newest patch day contained again a W10 updater thingie.

 

https://support.microsoft.com/en-US/kb/2952664

Well, after a quick look at the contents of that update, there are good news and bad news.

GNUs_Larson1.jpg

 

 

The good news are that evidently the whole lot of tracking sh*t that has been deployed till today did not provide enough data to deliver a proper update, so - in relative terms - till today not much data about your system was harvested by the good MS guys, i.e. they know about your system less than what you have feared till today...and possibly with these added info the update may after all go well for all :)

 

The bad news are that at first sight almost everything in it is either "diagnostics" or "tracking" or both. :ph34r:

 

The further bad news :(may be :unsure: that, given this nth added level of "current situation detection" the *whatever* will be downloaded will be more "targeted to the specific" machine and if you have several machines, likely you won't be able to download the stupid amount of bloat, possibly in the several Gb's range, once and re-deploy it to all machines but you will need to re-download the update directly from MS servers on each machine (with an unprecedented overhead of bandwidth consumption - I am thinking of the people that have a metered connection to the internet).

 

I do understand how they may want to field-test the whatever new update model, but maybe - just maybe - providing an install .iso would have not been that bad an idea (and maybe they will eventually decide to go that way, at least as an option or when/if some system will be botched).

 

Just yesterday I read an (unrelated to this, it was about school/edication) article about the need to distinguish between innovation and evolution, the Author Paolo di Stefano gave a good example:

Tenere il passo con l'evoluzione digitale non é necessario, a volte e controproducente. Non sempre innovare è un progresso: mangiare con i piedi é un innovazione di cui facciamo volentieri a meno.

 

that would roughly translate to:

To keep pace with the digital evolution is not necessary, sometimes  it is counterproductive. Not always to innovate is progress: to eat with one's toes is an innovation that we can gladly do without.

 

 

 

jaclaz

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Does this ever stop?

 

The newest patch day contained again a W10 updater thingie.

 

https://support.microsoft.com/en-US/kb/2952664

 

Hm, I wonder if they're rolling those out in a staggered fashion.

 

I had that one hidden already, and it's been listed here for a while:

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/173752-how-to-avoid-being-upgraded-to-win-10-against-your-will/

 

-Noel

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Yeah, I'd already been notified of that update, and hidden it.

 

It must in fact be some kind of staggered release, possibly tied to a staggered release schedule for Windows 10 to (many unsuspecting) Windows 7 users.

 

--JorgeA

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OT (but not much) interesting article:

http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/06/the-online-privacy-lie-is-unraveling/

 

 

Data-mining in the spotlight

One thing is clear: the great lie about online privacy is unraveling. The obfuscated commercial collection of vast amounts of personal data in exchange for ‘free’ services is gradually being revealed for what it is: a heist of unprecedented scale. Behind the bland, intellectually dishonest facade that claims there’s ‘nothing to see here’ gigantic data-mining apparatus have been manoeuvered into place, atop vast mountains of stolen personal data.

Stolen because it has never been made clear to consumers what is being taken, and how that information is being used. How can you consent to something you don’t know or understand? Informed consent requires transparency and an ability to control what happens. Both of which are systematically undermined by companies whose business models require that vast amounts of personal data be shoveled ceaselessly into their engines.

 

and original study in .pdf:

https://www.asc.upenn.edu/sites/default/files/TradeoffFallacy_1.pdf

 

jaclaz

 

Apropos of this, something else to watch out for:

 

Audi boss warns Google's self driving cars could monitor where you are to sell ads

 

'A car is one's second living room today,' Audi Chief Executive Rupert Stadler said on Tuesday at a business event in Berlin attended by Google Chairman Eric Schmidt.

 

'That's private.

 

'The only person who needs access to the data onboard is the customer,' Stadler said, adding Audi 'takes that seriously.'

 

Information about the location and speed of a car could be attractive to advertisers, insurance and communications companies who could use the data for their own commercial purposes.

 

Not to mention three-letter government agencies, who could use the data for their own political purposes...

 

Yet another front on which people will need to be watchful about being watched.

 

--JorgeA

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Windows SuperSite is reporting that even if you go through the process of cancelling your Windows 10 reservation, Microsoft will still give you yet another chance to mess up and fail to cancel it:

 

step5.jpg

 

Yeah, like if I got that far in the process I somehow didn't really want to cancel Win10... :rolleyes:

 

--JorgeA

 

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**** sneaky of them to claim you "may miss out" on an offer that's supposed to be good for a whole year after Win 10 releases, eh?

 

Pretty good stretch for the word "may" this time, eh?

 

Shakespeare had it wrong.  Lawyers as a lot are bad, no question, but he really should have proposed that we "kill all the marketers".  They are the true creators of evil.

 

-Noel

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**** sneaky of them to claim you "may miss out" on an offer that's supposed to be good for a whole year after Win 10 releases, eh?

 

Pretty good stretch for the word "may" this time, eh?

 

Yeah, really...

 

Shakespeare had it wrong. Lawyers as a lot are bad, no question, but he really should have proposed that we "kill all the marketers". They are the true creators of evil.

 

Things have gotten so bad that even Paul Thurrott is speaking out against Microsoft's tactics:

 

Is It OK for Microsoft to Push the Windows 10 Upgrade on Users?

 

Last week, Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 users began noticing a little Windows flag icon in their system tray, advertising the coming free upgrade to Windows 10. But as many are noticing, this advertisement is unsolicited and cannot be rejected or even turned off unless you really know what you’re doing. In Microsoft’s mad quest to push over a billion people to Windows 10 as quickly as possible, has the software giant gone too far?

 

The answer, clearly, is yes. And it doesn’t have to be this way.

 

[...]

 

The issue is that users are receiving this unsolicited advertisement on their PCs but then have no way to decline or defer an offer that is valid for a full year. There’s a “Reserve your free upgrade” button in the wizard that appears when you click on the “Get Windows 10″ icon. But no buttons for “No, thanks” or “Maybe later.” And once you reserve your copy of Windows 10, there’s no obvious way to then change your mind and decline it.

 

[...]

 

In an age of almost casual privacy violations from firms like Google and Facebook, complaining about Microsoft pushing its own software on users may seem almost quaint by comparison. It’s not. Automatic Windows Update delivery of critical and important security fixes is both useful, and for many, required. And letting users explicitly opt into additional software is absolutely OK as well. But silently shoveling an advertisement onto users’ PCs is a step in the wrong direction. And we should expect—no, demand—more of both Microsoft and Windows.

 

:thumbup

 

--JorgeA

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What I want to know is...

Where is the Justice Department?

-Noel

As I read the whole "how safe is our personal info" discussion I couldn't help but think about my experience searching for a job these past few years. For those who are unaware, the only way to apply for a job these days is via the company's online "applicant tracking system," which "reads" your resume and rejects you based on keywords. One of the common discussions in the unemployment forums centers on us asking just where does all our information go after we're rejected...? You fill out an enormous amount of personal info (just creating a login they ask 'security' questions like your mother's maiden name), some even have the nerve to demand your social security number and if you don't provide it you can't complete the app.

Just another example of how screwy things have gotten, and I find myself asking where's the dept of justice or dept of labor or atty general to do something here. (Sorry for going a bit OT here...)

(Edited for typos)

Edited by sparkles
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Windows SuperSite is reporting that even if you go through the process of cancelling your Windows 10 reservation, Microsoft will still give you yet another chance to mess up and fail to cancel it:

 

step5.jpg

 

Yeah, like if I got that far in the process I somehow didn't really want to cancel Win10... :rolleyes:

 

--JorgeA

 

there should be 3rd button saying "go fuck yourself already"

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