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dencorso

How to avoid being "upgraded to Win 10" against your will:

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Before the thought passes my mind, Windows 8 (in some versions only) provided downgrade rights (and if I recall correctly even some 7 versions).

 

A good question would be will there be downgrade rights in any version of Windows 10?

It appears so, but as with Windows 8.1 it would only be for the Pro edition.

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Yes.  What happens if they invalidate the license you're upgrading from.

Well there are different types of licenses that I work with, and in the case of the Windows 7 Home Premium I used, I can't see how they could invalidate it as it doesn't phone home to an activation server. The other types it could be possible as activation servers are used, but I am not worried that such a thing will happen.

 

Given the aggressiveness with which Microsoft is pushing Win 10, I wouldn't put it past them to initiate different methods of checking licenses online through Windows Update.

 

Be careful.  I believe there are very real trap doors being set.

 

-Noel

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So I compiled all the updates listed in the first post into a list that I saved in notepad for offline viewing. Is this all of the updates that I need to remove?

 

edit: Thanks to dencorso for the list.

Edited by ptd163

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You've got duplicate entries... here's the full list:

 

KB2952664
KB2976978
KB2990214
KB3021917
KB3022345
KB3035583
KB3044374
KB3046480
KB3050265
KB3050267
KB3068708

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The trouble with avoiding each and every one of the updates that remotely pertain to Win 10 is this:  You may be giving yourself the greatest chance of averting Microsoft from getting a foot in your door, BUT...  Are you ready to seal the divorce? 

 

Microsoft is most assuredly going to be changing the Windows Update system to feed data to all the Win 10 systems that get upgraded (and make no mistake, hundreds of millions will still trust Microsoft at the end of next month).  Plus, moving forward, further updates will be tested on systems for which all available updates have been applied.

 

So... 

 

1) You may be opting out of being able to receive Windows Updates at all moving forward,

 

    or worse

 

2) you may be setting your system up to become unstable, because moving forward you can bet Microsoft is going to rely on the prior Windows Updates having been installed.

 

I believe the best approach - assuming you don't want to opt completely out of receiving updates forever - may be to MINIMIZE the number of updates hidden, ideally to just those that directly cause known problems or add overhead to your system solely for someone else's benefit.

 

On my Win 8.1 workstation, which I plan to keep on 8.1 for quite some time, I'm hiding these...

 

KB3035583 - the GWX shill update - definitely don't let this one in.

KB3068708 - adds telemetry to your computer to help Microsoft.  Just what we need, more stuff running to benefit them.  Not.

KB2976978 - diagnostics to run on our systems to help Microsoft determine compatibility with Win 10.

KB3046480 - something that logs whether you use the older .NET frameworks.  This one is probably okay, but unneccesary.

 

 

On my Win 7 system, which I plan to keep on 7...

 

KB3035583 - the GWX shill update - definitely don't let this one in.

KB3068708 - adds telemetry to your computer to help Microsoft.  Just what we need, more stuff running to benefit them.  Not.

KB2952664 - hard to tell, but looks like it changes an existing system to become less capable and/or nag you; no thanks.

KB3021917 - diagnostics to run on our systems to help Microsoft determine compatibility with Win 10.

 

 

In all seriousness, once you start down this path, prepare yourself mentally to be completely out on your own.  Unless there's a huge shift in direction there will come a time when it will be prudent to just stop accepting Windows Updates entirely.

 

-Noel

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Well, with all due respect, what do you think a XP and 9x diehard is, if not out on one's own, for a long time, already?  dubbio.gif

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I'm not being critical, don't get me wrong - but a balance must be struck.

 

It would be easy to shut off Windows Update entirely but that's not what's being discussed here.  This thread is about specific updates to hide, presumably to be able to continue to enjoy all the good parts of getting Windows Updates while avoiding the bad parts.

 

There's no easy, quick way to make the decision how to go about that - that's all I'm saying.  Knee jerk reactions do not a stable, long term strategy make.

 

-Noel

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So you'd allow the updates below to install, if I get you right, is that so?

 

KB2990214 for Windows 7 SPx and KB3044374 for Windows 8.1  (for WU)
KB3050265 for Windows 7 SP1 and KB3050267 for Windows 8.1 (for WU)

 

Since they can be saved for later, I, for one, shall keep them out of my 7 SP1 x64 installations, up to the day they become inevitable.

Of course, that's just my choice, and I'm not saying anybody should follow this path on my say-so. Everyone should decide on his/her own, of course. And I do agree it's no easy decision.

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Good examples.

 

These are on my systems, yes.

 

The Windows Servicing Guy Joseph Conway (joscon) has described those as important even if you don't plan to upgrade to Windows 10.  Specifically, "For all operating systems, there are improvements in the overall Windows Update client which is why it was released as Important".

 

Like I said, Microsoft is moving on to their Win 10 future.  You have to judge whether an update is solely to support an upgrade, or in general to support further Windows Update processes moving forward.  I judged these as important even though I don't plan to upgrade on their schedule.

 

-Noel

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My reasoning for waiting stems from the following:

 

Fact 1 - Win 7 SP1 EoS Jan 14, 2020;

Fact 2 - POSReady 2009 EoS Apr 09, 2019;

Fact 3 - There're no counterparts to those two updates (viz.: KB2990214/KB3050265) for POSReady 2009.

 

Hence MU (or, at the very least WU) ought to keep working as it does today, at least until Apr 09, 2019.

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Good points, but we're talking about the Win 7 / 8.x SKUs that we're really running, not those others.  I still think that putting one leg off the Windows Update train could be dangerous (i.e., invite instability) in ways we don't foresee. 

 

As far as holding the updates until the future...  I'm not convinced installing a previously-hidden old update after newer ones have come along is a good idea.  I see the decision to hide as more permanent.

 

Who knows, those "improvements" joscon described may just be peer to peer networking or something we don't really want on our older systems anyway.

 

But I'm going to stick with my decisions on the assumption that I want to stay firmly on the "Microsoft fixes my bugs" train a little longer.  I don't think everyone there has turned evil.

 

Rest assured I'll post back here if I sense something going wrong as a result of installing/hiding the particular set of updates I've chosen.

 

-Noel

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Wow. I've read this thread through six times and my head is swimming with it.

I've just done a clean install of Win7 SP1 x64 and was going to install updates and hide the ones that get me "upgraded" to Win10. But which ones to hide was the question. In the end I was persuaded by NoelC's argument so I thought to go with the four (so far) he recommended for hiding on Windows 7 SP1.

When I got to the updates I looked for those four, found the following three and set them to 'hidden':

KB2952664 - in Optional updates

KB3021917 - in Optional updates

KB3068708 - in Optional updates

However, I couldn't find KB3035583. It wasn't listed in Optional or Important updates (so maybe that one has vanished off the map for some reason.) This is the update that according to information at the beginning of this thread installs GWX.exe.

In any case while I was doing all this searching for those updates to hide something struck me about Noel's argument that I hadn't thought about until I was actually searching the update lists. It was that part of Noel's argument is that if you hide all the updates that are listed at the beginning of this thread then you are running into potential problems at a later date - Windows won't update correctly because previous updates that you decided to hide are essential to some component of a later update functioning properly; or some of the hidden updates must be installed on your system to be offered certain future updates at all. Basically you "break" a properly functioning update-chain. (I hope that is a fair summary of Noel's argument.)

The thing is that of the updates I found to hide all of them were in the "Optional" category. So now I don't understand how Noel's argument can hold to be true if these updates truly are "Optional" - which suggests the user has a free choice in the matter. If the user does have a free choice in the matter then surely MS wouldn't arrange a situation whereby a user that chooses not to install an optional update will suffer consequences later because of doing so.

It could be that I don't really understand what MS means when it says "optional" If that is the case I would appreciate some comment on where my thinking is flawed.

In any case thanks very much to Dencorso for starting this very useful thread, much appreciated. I hope it will continue to be updated as things develop on this front. "No!" to Win10 for me.

Edited by Radish

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In my opinion, Noel's point was more about what might happen vs what will happen.  IF it does come to pass, then as long as you keep in touch at least occasionally with forums such as this one, then the word will get to you that that is the case and you can un-hide and install those updates and everything will be OK with your system once again.  I tend to take the more cautionary approach that dencorso espouses.  I haven't had any issues so far, and I don't expect to.  If I do, I'll deal with the issue then.  Just my two cents.

 

Cheers and Regards

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On my Win 8.1 workstation, which I plan to keep on 8.1 for quite some time, I'm hiding these...

 

KB3035583 - the GWX shill update - definitely don't let this one in.

KB3068708 - adds telemetry to your computer to help Microsoft.  Just what we need, more stuff running to benefit them.  Not.

KB2976978 - diagnostics to run on our systems to help Microsoft determine compatibility with Win 10.

KB3046480 - something that logs whether you use the older .NET frameworks.  This one is probably okay, but unneccesary.

 

 

On my Win 7 system, which I plan to keep on 7...

 

KB3035583 - the GWX shill update - definitely don't let this one in.

KB3068708 - adds telemetry to your computer to help Microsoft.  Just what we need, more stuff running to benefit them.  Not.

KB2952664 - hard to tell, but looks like it changes an existing system to become less capable and/or nag you; no thanks.

KB3021917 - diagnostics to run on our systems to help Microsoft determine compatibility with Win 10.

em solely for someone else's benefit.

 

With all due respect, NoelC, IMO, in order to be consistent, you should also avoid KB3046480 on your Win 7 machine. Is there any reason to hide it just on the 8.1 systems?

 

@Radish: You're welcome! Rest assured I do intend to keep this thread up-to-date. :yes:

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With all due respect, NoelC, IMO, in order to be consistent, you should also avoid KB3046480 on your Win 7 machine. Is there any reason to hide it just on the 8.1 systems?

 

Logically speaking you're right.  For some reason that one has never shown up for me on my Win 7 system.

 

-Noel

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