Dave-H Posted February 16, 2015 Author Posted February 16, 2015 The "gap" is the primary machine being used on Windows 8.1 with a USB connection rather than the eSATA connection.I haven't actually tried using the primary machine with its USB connection at all, only the primary machine on eSATA and the secondary machine on USB (which is all that it has). I'm afraid that I didn't check PC1XP4096 either, as I had no reason to think that it would be any different to the secondary machine (PC2XP4096)! I haven't tried going back to the start yet, and I won't now of course until to tell me to. I will go back to XP on both machines though and make sure that the disk as it is now will work successfully on both machines and on all connection options.Also I'll check whether the same problem exists on the USB connection with Windows 8.1 on the primary machine as on the secondary machine.
Dave-H Posted February 16, 2015 Author Posted February 16, 2015 OK, I've checked things out completely again on XP, and everything seems to be working fine, including the PC1XP4096 USB connection. The only thing that didn't go completely as expected was that after I'd set the drive to 4096 using the primary machine on USB, when I re-plugged the disk to the secondary machine, the large drive didn't appear.When I looked in Disk Management I found that it had been assigned drive letter E: again, and was not appearing in Explorer because I still have a network drive assigned to E:! Changing the drive letter to H: in Disk Management fixed that and all then seemed to be OK. I'll now have another go in 8.1 and see if I can switch between the two modes just on the primary machine, which I've not tried before.
Dave-H Posted February 17, 2015 Author Posted February 17, 2015 OK, I've now done some more tests with Windows 8.1.This time I concentrated just on the primary machine, on which I can use both interfaces.On the USB (4096) interface it behaves exactly the same as the secondary machine. It seems that everything is fine in Windows XP, but in Windows 8.1 it is possible to switch from 4096 to 512, but not the other way. I left it switched to 4096 using XP, then went to 8.1, and the smaller drive was recognised OK (although it said it had errors and needed to be scanned as the secondary machine had done) but the larger partition didn't appear, and again appears in Disk Management as an unformatted primary partition.I can switch it to 512 OK and it then works, but trying to switch back just produces "the parameter is incorrect" again, so I can only switch back using XP. In XP the large partition appears as a logical drive in an extended partition, as it should.Could this be anything to do with poor (or lack of) support for this on Windows 8.1?I noticed very early on when I started working with 8.1 that it doesn't seem to be possible to create extended partitions and logical drives using Disk Management as you can in XP. It only seems to create primary partitions, at least on simple volumes.
jaclaz Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Well, when the good MS guys are involved everything (and the contrary of it) is possible , but I still believe that the issue is *somewhere* in the batch(es) , I mean, the second NTFS volume is as "logical" when mounted as 512 as it is when mounted as 4kb, as a matter of fact the only things that change (besides the bootsector) is the address of the EPBR. However, try the attached, SwitcherNG.cmd (the NG stands for Next Generation , should anyone be led to think it could stand for No Good ). Hopefully it is a bit more reliable in performing the switching and the re-detection/re-scan. It's not yet as good as I would have expected it to be, it seems that I can still manage (and surely you will be able to replicate it) to find "sequences" of connections/disconnections that "hang" or that however seem somehow "sensitive" to opened windows/tools and/or being sometimes much slower than others, and I still have to understand why in some cases drive letters remain "sticky". A good part of the issues are surely given by the "false" drive letter assignment caused by the network drive assigned to an "early" drive letter (actually the otherwise "first free" one), but I believe that this new approach should work if not "better", "less worse" than the early one. Try this new one, and report. jaclazSwitcher008.zip
Dave-H Posted February 17, 2015 Author Posted February 17, 2015 All still OK on XP, although there is a long pause at one point in the batch where a "please wait" might be good.Same problem on 8.1 though, although now when I try to switch from 512 to 4096 I just get -Microsoft Windows [Version 6.3.9600](c) 2013 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.C:\WINDOWS\system32>I:I:\>switcherngVista , or later, ...OK, I am a local admin ..."DUAL" disk found as \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE5Disk is connected as 4096 bytes/sectorTHe NTFS volume has not been found.Press any key to continue . . .I:\>The drive is still not showing up correctly in Disk Management of course, so can't be seen as it apparently has no file system or drive letter.
jaclaz Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I am curious to see how the dual mode disk is seen in 8.1. It seems like the volume is not detected at all. , it is possible that it belongs to one of the "safety measures" (or whatever) in Vista or later. Forget about Disk Manager. When you are in that situation (possibly Windows 8.1, connected as 4kb, BUT actual bootsector 512 i.e. PC1814096bs512) run in diskpart:select disk 5detail disklist partitionselect partition 2detail partitionlist volume and post output.(of course disk 5 is the output you posted, and partition 2 is the actual partition number as it should be, if you don't have the partition 2 in the output of list partition, go directly to the list volume command). Please also run the "usual":MOUNTVOL>mountvol.logREG QUERY HKLM\SYSTEM\MountedDevices>regexe.logand attach them. Now, I may seem grumpy - mainly because I am grumpy, but can you ALWAYS from now on, use the "code" that we have seemingly agreed to : PC1XP512PC1XP4096PC181512PC1814096PC2XP4096PC2814096 as reports like this: All still OK on XP, although there is a long pause at one point in the batch where a "please wait" might be good.Same problem on 8.1 though, although now when I try to switch from 512 to 4096 I just get - are (to me) confusing and I spend some time to try understanding them and I am not even sure if I get them fully right jaclaz
Dave-H Posted February 17, 2015 Author Posted February 17, 2015 OK, here's what I got (PC1814096) -Microsoft Windows [Version 6.3.9600](c) 2013 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.C:\WINDOWS\system32>diskpartMicrosoft DiskPart version 6.3.9600Copyright (C) 1999-2013 Microsoft Corporation.On computer: ASHFIELDCOURTDISKPART> select disk 5Disk 5 is now the selected disk.DISKPART> detail diskWDC WD10 EZEX-00BN5A0 USB DeviceDisk ID: 4C415544Type : USBStatus : OnlinePath : 0Target : 0LUN ID : 0Location Path : UNAVAILABLECurrent Read-only State : NoRead-only : NoBoot Disk : NoPagefile Disk : NoHibernation File Disk : NoCrashdump Disk : NoClustered Disk : No Volume ### Ltr Label Fs Type Size Status Info ---------- --- ----------- ----- ---------- ------- --------- -------- Volume 8 I FAT Partition 254 MB HealthyDISKPART> list partition Partition ### Type Size Offset ------------- ---------------- ------- ------- Partition 0 Extended 4096 B 252 KB Partition 1 Primary 254 MB 256 KB Partition 2 Primary 931 GB 32 MBDISKPART> select partition 2Partition 2 is now the selected partition.DISKPART> detail partitionPartition 2Type : 07Hidden: NoActive: NoOffset in Bytes: 33554432There is no volume associated with this partition.DISKPART> list volume Volume ### Ltr Label Fs Type Size Status Info ---------- --- ----------- ----- ---------- ------- --------- -------- Volume 0 G DVD-ROM 0 B No Media Volume 1 H DVD-ROM 0 B No Media Volume 2 F CAPTURE FAT32 Partition 55 GB Healthy Volume 3 C Windows 8.1 NTFS Partition 119 GB Healthy System Volume 4 S NTFS Dump NTFS Partition 59 GB Healthy Pagefile Volume 5 W WIN98 WINXP FAT32 Partition 102 GB Healthy Volume 6 D WINXP BOOT FAT32 Partition 34 GB Healthy Volume 7 E ARCHIVE FAT32 Partition 279 GB Healthy Volume 8 I FAT Partition 254 MB HealthyDISKPART> exitLeaving DiskPart...C:\WINDOWS\system32>mountvol>mountvol.logC:\WINDOWS\system32>reg query hklm\system\mounteddevices>regexe.logC:\WINDOWS\system32>And here's the two logs.Logs.zip
jaclaz Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Good . (which means bad ) The issue is definitely here:DISKPART> list partitionPartition ### Type Size Offset------------- ---------------- ------- -------Partition 0 Extended 4096 B 252 KBPartition 1 Primary 254 MB 256 KBPartition 2 Primary 931 GB 32 MBDISKPART> select partition 2Partition 2 is now the selected partition.DISKPART> detail partitionPartition 2Type : 07Hidden: NoActive: NoOffset in Bytes: 33554432There is no volume associated with this partition. On PC1XP4096 you should have (please check, but I have no doubts): DISKPART> list partitionPartition ### Type Size Offset------------- ---------------- ------- -------Partition 1 Extended 4096 B 252 KBPartition 2 Logical 931 GB 32 MBPartition 3 Primary 254 MB 256 KB Can you please try the same (and post results) on PC181512bs4096? Would it be possible that the good MS guys have removed altogether the concept of "Logical Volume" BUT only for 4096 byte/sector devices? BTW this will probably not prevent us from "switching", I think I can deploy the bootsector correctly by using the \\.\Physicaldrive (with the right offset), what has to be seen if the "blank" MBR trick (or the "offline disk" one) is needed or not, i.e. if the bootsector is write protected or not. jaclaz
Dave-H Posted February 17, 2015 Author Posted February 17, 2015 Yes on PC1XP4096 I'm getting this -Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600](C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.C:\XP User Files\Dave>diskpartMicrosoft DiskPart version 5.1.3565Copyright (C) 1999-2003 Microsoft Corporation.On computer: AshfieldCourtDISKPART> select disk 5Disk 5 is now the selected disk.DISKPART> list partition Partition ### Type Size Offset ------------- ---------------- ------- ------- Partition 1 Extended 4096 B 252 KB Partition 2 Logical 931 GB 32 MB Partition 3 Primary 254 MB 256 KBDISKPART> exitLeaving DiskPart...C:\XP User Files\Dave>And on PC1814096, just rebooting into a different OS without changing anything else, I'm getting this -Microsoft Windows [Version 6.3.9600](c) 2013 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.C:\WINDOWS\system32>diskpartMicrosoft DiskPart version 6.3.9600Copyright (C) 1999-2013 Microsoft Corporation.On computer: ASHFIELDCOURTDISKPART> select disk 5Disk 5 is now the selected disk.DISKPART> list partition Partition ### Type Size Offset ------------- ---------------- ------- ------- Partition 0 Extended 4096 B 252 KB Partition 1 Primary 254 MB 256 KB Partition 2 Primary 931 GB 32 MBDISKPART>BTW I think what we're doing now, just using the one machine (PC1) with both interfaces is much better than swapping between machines, as it has removed any possible confusion caused by the network drive on the other machine, and the different drive letters being assigned on the two machines.
jaclaz Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 BTW I think what we're doing now, just using the one machine (PC1) with both interfaces is much better than swapping between machines, as it has removed any possible confusion caused by the network drive on the other machine, and the different drive letters being assigned on the two machines. Yep .Though I am sorry to create thus the need for frequent reboots .At next occasion, however do post please the PC181512bs4kb, I need it to understand (hopefully) if the 8.1 on 512 interface behaves like XP or in a "third way" different from both XP and 8.1 4096. jaclaz
Dave-H Posted February 18, 2015 Author Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) This is really strange! I went back to PC1XP4096 so I could switch the drive back to bs4096, which I can't do on 8.1.That worked fine, and I then checked the big partition showed as unformatted when switched to PC1XP512, left it connected like that, and rebooted into 8.1. To my great surprise the two drives appeared correctly in PC181512, even though the large partition should have been shown as unformatted as it was left set as bs4096!Disk Manager said it's a primary partition as before, but this time formatted and assigned letter J:.The only oddity was that the large J: drive now had a file added to it "bootsqm.dat" which looks like something from CHKDSK. I switched to PC1814096, and both the drives were still apparently OK using the other interface!Disk Manager however was now showing a blank entry for the drive, with no partitions shown, and the size displayed on the left under the disk number was a ridiculous negative figure!I could still apparently access the drives in Explorer quite happily though. I then switched back to PC181512, and the system immediately threw a BSOD "NMI_HARDWARE_FAILURE".I rebooted and it was OK, thank goodness. Running the DISKPART test (still connected PC181512bs4096) then gave -Microsoft Windows [Version 6.3.9600](c) 2013 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.C:\WINDOWS\system32>diskpartMicrosoft DiskPart version 6.3.9600Copyright (C) 1999-2013 Microsoft Corporation.On computer: ASHFIELDCOURTDISKPART> select disk 5Disk 5 is now the selected disk.DISKPART> list partition Partition ### Type Size Offset ------------- ---------------- ------- ------- Partition 0 Extended 512 B 31 KB Partition 1 Primary 31 MB 32 KB Partition 2 Primary 931 GB 32 MBDISKPART>So, I don't know what's going on here at all now, I hope this gives you some clue! Edited February 18, 2015 by Dave-H
jaclaz Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) Well, some oddities are as said expected , particularly in Disk Manager. The BSOD is queer, however it may well be a "glitch in the matrix". I need the "full" set of reports for the PC181512, just like the ones you posted on #172 for the PC1814096.In those the "anomaly" was that: There is no volume associated with this partition. I expect that on the PC181512, like on all the XP based tests, a volume is actually associated to the partition (which is what allows the SwitcherNG to work to switch from 4kb to 512). However the good news about:I:\>switcherngVista , or later, ...OK, I am a local admin ..."DUAL" disk found as \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE5Disk is connected as 4096 bytes/sectorTHe NTFS volume has not been found.are that the batch works correctly, i.e. it cannot found a volume because the volume is not actually there, but the detection of both the Physicaldrive and of the sector size is correct. :thumbsup: I can now add to the batch (in the case the volume has not been found) a "more direct access" routine. jaclaz Edited February 18, 2015 by jaclaz
Dave-H Posted February 18, 2015 Author Posted February 18, 2015 OK, here's the DISKPART test run with PC181512bs4096 -Microsoft Windows [Version 6.3.9600](c) 2013 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.C:\WINDOWS\system32>diskpartMicrosoft DiskPart version 6.3.9600Copyright (C) 1999-2013 Microsoft Corporation.On computer: ASHFIELDCOURTDISKPART> select disk 5Disk 5 is now the selected disk.DISKPART> detail diskWDC WD10 EZEX-00BN5A0 SCSI Disk DeviceDisk ID: 4C415544Type : SATAStatus : OnlinePath : 0Target : 0LUN ID : 0Location Path : PCIROOT(0)#PCI(1E00)#PCI(0300)#ATA(C00T00L00)Current Read-only State : NoRead-only : NoBoot Disk : NoPagefile Disk : NoHibernation File Disk : NoCrashdump Disk : NoClustered Disk : No Volume ### Ltr Label Fs Type Size Status Info ---------- --- ----------- ----- ---------- ------- --------- -------- Volume 8 I FAT Partition 31 MB Healthy Volume 9 J RAW Partition 931 GB HealthyDISKPART> list partition Partition ### Type Size Offset ------------- ---------------- ------- ------- Partition 0 Extended 512 B 31 KB Partition 1 Primary 31 MB 32 KB Partition 2 Primary 931 GB 32 MBDISKPART> select partition 2Partition 2 is now the selected partition.DISKPART> detail partitionPartition 2Type : 07Hidden: NoActive: NoOffset in Bytes: 33554432 Volume ### Ltr Label Fs Type Size Status Info ---------- --- ----------- ----- ---------- ------- --------- --------* Volume 9 J RAW Partition 931 GB HealthyDISKPART> list volume Volume ### Ltr Label Fs Type Size Status Info ---------- --- ----------- ----- ---------- ------- --------- -------- Volume 0 G DVD-ROM 0 B No Media Volume 1 H DVD-ROM 0 B No Media Volume 2 F CAPTURE FAT32 Partition 55 GB Healthy Volume 3 C Windows 8.1 NTFS Partition 119 GB Healthy System Volume 4 S NTFS Dump NTFS Partition 59 GB Healthy Pagefile Volume 5 W WIN98 WINXP FAT32 Partition 102 GB Healthy Volume 6 D WINXP BOOT FAT32 Partition 34 GB Healthy Volume 7 E ARCHIVE FAT32 Partition 279 GB Healthy Volume 8 I FAT Partition 31 MB Healthy* Volume 9 J RAW Partition 931 GB HealthyDISKPART> exitLeaving DiskPart...C:\WINDOWS\system32>This time after I switched the disk to bs4096 in XP and then went to the 512 connection and rebooted into 8.1 there were no anomalies, the large partition was shown as unformatted as expected.
jaclaz Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) Good. Try the attached, Switcher009, renamed to SwitcherDA (stands for Direct Access).If it works as intended, on PCn814096 it should have an output similar to:"DUAL" disk found as \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE6Disk is connected as 4096 bytes/sectorThe NTFS volume has not been found.This may seemingly happen on 8.x, and we can then try with direct access.The current NTFS bootsector is NOT the 4kb bytes oneswitching it ...dsfi \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE6 33554432 4096 as4kbNTFS.bssOK, written 4096 bytes at offset 33554432attempting to run a rescanDal computer CINQUEAttendere. Rilevamento della configurazione corrente in corso.............DiskPart ha completato l'analisi della configurazione.This is the most we can do, if after next iterationthe NTFS volume is still not found but the bootsectoris detected as the "right" one, you will need todisconnect the disk through "Safely Remove Hardware" andreconnect it ...Premere un tasto per continuare . . .whether the Diskpart rescan will be enough to "create" the volume or if a physical disconnection and re-connection will be needed is to be seen ... jaclazSwitcher009.zip Edited February 18, 2015 by jaclaz
Dave-H Posted February 19, 2015 Author Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) OK, this is what I get switching from 4096-512 on PC181512 -Microsoft Windows [Version 6.3.9600](c) 2013 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.C:\WINDOWS\system32>I:I:\>switcherdaVista , or later, ...OK, I am a local admin ..."DUAL" disk found as \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE5Disk is connected as 512 bytes/sectorNTFS volume found as \\.\Volume{c8aa1940-b5e8-11e4-bf9c-00304879f908}, drive J:* Volume 9 J RAW Partition 931 GB HealthyRemoving drive letter J: ...The current NTFS bootsector is NOT the 512 bytes oneswitching it ...dsfi \\.\Volume{c8aa1940-b5e8-11e4-bf9c-00304879f908} 0 4096 as512NTFS.bssOK, written 4096 bytes at offset 0Please wait while DiskPart scans your configuration...Leaving DiskPart...* Volume 9 New Volume NTFS Partition 931 GB HealthyMounting the volume to a drive letter...Checking drive letters ...In use: C: D: E: F: G: H: I: S: W:Free : J: K: L: M: N: O: P: Q: R: T: U: V: X: Y: Z:Mounting volume to first free drive letter J: ...OK, done:* Volume 9 J New Volume NTFS Partition 931 GB HealthyPress any key to continue . . .I:\>And this is what I get trying to go the other way from 512-4096 on PC1814096 -Microsoft Windows [Version 6.3.9600](c) 2013 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.C:\WINDOWS\system32>I:I:\>switcherdaVista , or later, ...OK, I am a local admin ..."DUAL" disk found as \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE5Disk is connected as 4096 bytes/sectorThe NTFS volume has not been found.This may seemingly happen on 8.x, and we can then try with direct access.The current NTFS bootsector is NOT the 4kb bytes oneswitching it ...dsfi \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE5 33554432 4096 as4kbNTFS.bss\\.\PHYSICALDRIVE5 - Access is denied.attempting to run a rescanOn computer: ASHFIELDCOURTPlease wait while DiskPart scans your configuration...DiskPart has finished scanning your configuration.This is the most we can do, if after next iterationthe NTFS volume is still not found but the bootsectoris detected as the "right" one, you will need todisconnect the disk through "Safely Remove Hardware" andreconnect it ...Press any key to continue . . ."DUAL" disk found as \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE5Disk is connected as 4096 bytes/sectorThe NTFS volume has not been found.This may seemingly happen on 8.x, and we can then try with direct access.The current NTFS bootsector is NOT the 4kb bytes oneswitching it ...dsfi \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE5 33554432 4096 as4kbNTFS.bss\\.\PHYSICALDRIVE5 - Access is denied.attempting to run a rescanOn computer: ASHFIELDCOURTPlease wait while DiskPart scans your configuration...DiskPart has finished scanning your configuration.This is the most we can do, if after next iterationthe NTFS volume is still not found but the bootsectoris detected as the "right" one, you will need todisconnect the disk through "Safely Remove Hardware" andreconnect it ...Press any key to continue . . ."DUAL" disk found as \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE5Disk is connected as 4096 bytes/sectorThe NTFS volume has not been found.This may seemingly happen on 8.x, and we can then try with direct access.The current NTFS bootsector is NOT the 4kb bytes oneswitching it ...dsfi \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE5 33554432 4096 as4kbNTFS.bss\\.\PHYSICALDRIVE5 - Access is denied.attempting to run a rescanOn computer: ASHFIELDCOURTPlease wait while DiskPart scans your configuration...DiskPart has finished scanning your configuration.This is the most we can do, if after next iterationthe NTFS volume is still not found but the bootsectoris detected as the "right" one, you will need todisconnect the disk through "Safely Remove Hardware" andreconnect it ...Press any key to continue . . ."DUAL" disk found as \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE5Disk is connected as 4096 bytes/sectorThe NTFS volume has not been found.This may seemingly happen on 8.x, and we can then try with direct access.The current NTFS bootsector is NOT the 4kb bytes oneswitching it ...dsfi \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE5 33554432 4096 as4kbNTFS.bss\\.\PHYSICALDRIVE5 - Access is denied.attempting to run a rescanOn computer: ASHFIELDCOURTPlease wait while DiskPart scans your configuration...DiskPart has finished scanning your configuration.This is the most we can do, if after next iterationthe NTFS volume is still not found but the bootsectoris detected as the "right" one, you will need todisconnect the disk through "Safely Remove Hardware" andreconnect it ...Press any key to continue . . .Endlessly repeated of course........ Ejecting the disk's USB connection and re-connecting makes no difference, again the large partition doesn't appear, with the same result from the switcher output.It's still being shown in Disk Management as a primary partition with no file system. Edited February 19, 2015 by Dave-H
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