NoelC Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Microsoft claims to be "listening" to its users by asking them to provide feedback. They've already seen how interpreting telemetry can fail. So they're asking Joe Public to use the "Feedback App" and let them know what's up. Am I the only one who thinks the trouble with this is that what we'll get is an OS that's designed by untrained masses of people, who know about as much about designing operating systems as they know about designing rockets? I went to submit feedback about Internet Explorer not doing proper color-management, and not one person had mentioned it. So therefore Microsoft - assuming they're counting up comments - doesn't perceive there to be any demand for better color-management, and thus they will do nothing (even though IE gets the color wrong 100% of the time on most systems). When did the world forget that we expect higher tech than we could design ourselves? Of course it's easy to "just do what people want" and if you fail you can tell upper management, "But we did what the people asked for!". What's hard is innovating. Leading. Building a solid foundation. Getting it right. -Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaclaz Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Am I the only one who thinks the trouble with this is that what we'll get is an OS that's designed by untrained masses of people, who know about as much about designing operating systems as they know about designing rockets?No , you are not alone. But it is not a politically correct attitude back to oligarchy vs. democracy: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/172856-guideway-to-disable-keylogger-well-im-not-sure/?p=1087279 jaclaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aero7x64 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) I would rather not discuss about newest leaked build because it would be better that people try build and give feedback but there is important thing that I feel should be mentioned about build 9901: Control panel -> Windows Update there is text that say: This UI is deprecated. To get updates go to Settings.At least rest of control panel works for now at least...I'm speechless...Why Microsoft did this? I specifically send feedback and said that they should keep control panel in traditional desktop instead of replacing it with settings app. Apparently Microsoft hasn't gotten message. Feedback has not been heard. This confirm that if UI isn't restored in next public test build I will indeed skip Windows 10 in favor of Windows 11 or whatever name Microsoft will choose and stay on Windows 7. Amount of money that has been lost during win8+ period has apparently not been enough yet.Gabriel Aul, the head of Windows Insider program as far as I have followed his Twitter feeds, apparently cares about feedback at least on some level but management or marketing has chosen not to listen feedback. Edited December 14, 2014 by Aero7x64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) To my mind, one of the most worrisome aspects about the Win10TP is the atrocious Windows Feedback app. If this is supposed to showcase how wonderful it'll be to live in app-land, then count me out. For one thing, you can't tell what items you've voted on previously -- the app just lets you keep voting "Me too" and going through the motions as if it's recording it. Your new vote never shows up in the updated list of votes for suggestions, but the fact that it lets you go through the process serves to highlight the sloppiness of the feedback app. Microsoft -- oooohh, Microsoft itself!! -- made this. Is this the level of quality and functionality we can expect from Metro/Modern/Universal apps, and is this really the model that we are expected to believe is going inevitably to replace Win32 applications? Gimme a break. For another, once you're done voting on an item, you're taken back to the top of the list, as opposed to the place in the list where you had been. This means that you have to find, all over again, where you were so that you can proceed from there with your review of the suggestions on the list. The overall impression is one of Amateur Hour rather than a serious feedback tool befitting the supposed importance of the volunteer work that TP users are doing for the computing world's premier operating system. Then again, maybe the crumminess of the feedback app merely illustrates the level of interest and attention that Microsoft bigwigs are really giving to their testers' opinions. Back to the oligarchy vs. democracy debate, but with a different angle (the oligarchs preferring crud). --JorgeA EDIT: Apropos of what I said above, check out this comment on Paul Thurrott's site: As a Windows 7/ipad/iphone user I can't figure out why Microsoft is porting UI designs from the least popular smart phone platform to the desktop. I think its going to confuse Windows 7 users when they boot up a Windows 10 pc for the first time. Sadly, the "Find a setting" search box doesn't even look like a search box. In the Windows 10 forum there are a lot of customers who would like to see more personalization options but Microsoft doesn't seem to be listening. Its crazy to think a company as big as Microsoft could be so focused on pushing a particular design language when it hasn't been very successful.[emphasis added] Edited December 17, 2014 by JorgeA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelC Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 I've been criticized because I've been negative about Microsoft's efforts, but as you've seen, where the rubber meets the road the tires are worn, flat, and have screws in them. Is this the level of quality and functionality we can expect from Metro/Modern/Universal apps, and is this really the model that we are expected to believe is going inevitably to replace Win32 applications? Very perceptive, and absolutely right on. I've seen a syndrome many times where an engineering company gets infected with cranial-rectalitis, and what happens is either 1) the company just goes out of business, or 2) the company gets bought by a bigger company with a less advanced stage of the disease. Microsoft has been "too big to fail" so far, but that's not going to keep. With great riches comes great spending, and it's tough for anyone to keep that up. -Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dencorso Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Maybe MS is fated to be bought by Symantec (you all remember how Norton products were great before that happened to them)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Maybe MS is fated to be bought by Symantec (you all remember how Norton products were great before that happened to them)... --JorgeA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptd163 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 you all remember how Norton products were great before that happened to them Norton products were once good? News to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsenellenelvian Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) Norton? Twelve plus years ago they were good... I rather liked the 2003 suite. A lot like Nero they were great until version 7. The version 6 base package was just under 35 megs and did everything fantastically then 7 came out and the base package was 400 megs and did the same crap as 6 just "prettier" (Almost all of the extra was graphical) That's like 12x the growth and most of it was just fud... Edited January 2, 2015 by Kelsenellenelvian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelC Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 I'm thinking Norton was good 18 to 20 years ago. -Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I've been using Norton products for about 14 years. The utilities (Norton System Works) were good for my Windows 98 PC back then, although the anti-virus did slow down my machine. More recently (since 2008 or '09), the AV has become a lot leaner and barely registers on the CPU tab in Task Manager on my Vista and 7 systems. However, for a couple of years now the Norton folks have been hard at work wrecking the UI (making it progressively flatter and cruder), and late last year they introduced a new "Norton Security" suite that relies on the cloud instead of downloaded definitions. The idea is to make the program even leaner but it's generated a substantial amount of controversy on the Norton forums as this "feature" makes the program practicaly useless unless you're online -- which isn't something you necessarily want if you suspect an infection. --JorgeA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dencorso Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I'm thinking Norton was good 18 to 20 years ago. I had something like that in mind, when I posted that comment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Nice screenshot. Is that on Windows 2 or thereabouts? IIRC even the Win3.x scrollbars were fancier. That said, the scrollbar looks like what Microsoft is using nowadays for Internet Explorer... --JorgeA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaclaz Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Nice screenshot. Is that on Windows 2 or thereabouts? IIRC even the Win3.x scrollbars were fancier. That said, the scrollbar looks like what Microsoft is using nowadays for Internet Explorer... --JorgeAYou must be joking.That is good ol' DOS! And of course the Norton Utilities (while nice and a very useful tool) were not your "everyday" program, what you had before you most of the time was the Norton Commander :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton_Commanderand it is/was actually so comfortable, useful, fast, etc. that it gave life to the whole idea of OFM (Orthodox File Manager):http://softpanorama.org/OFM/index.shtml Anyone not using a dual pane file manager for copying/moving/reordering/compressing/decompressing/etc. files is losing some little time every day. jaclaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelC Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 I stand corrected. Time flies. That was 30 years ago - back when the keyboard I'm typing on was made, and engineering was Real Engineering. Good ol' Norton was a smart businessman and sold his wares - presumably for a fortune - to a bigger fish. I remember envying him at the time. Having your photo on shrink wrap software boxes was the 1980s form of "going viral". -Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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