Win9x locks up

[pulteny]

Hi all,

 

I have an old gateway computer with win89 se, it has a pentium3 cpu and 650 MHerts speed also 300 odd Mb memory.

 

It has taken to booting up ok and runs for about a min then locks up no mouse or keyboard. I also have go-back which is a form of system restore. A message often comes up saying go-back has shut down windows to prevent damage to files.

It runs ok in safe mode,I have tried to remove go-back but get stuck in a loop of shutting down and never get to get rid of go-back.

It has been to the doctors but because it is so old he says it is not worth spending money on and any way could not find the fault.

There are two hard discs and Ithought about installing LINUX or somthing similair on the second drive.

 

I know it is old but has some usefull stuff on the hard drive. As it will only run for a short time almost impossible to save data. I am somewhat attched to the thing anyway.

 

Regars for any usefull advise. pulteny.

[loblo]

Sounds like a hardware issue, memory or motherboard dying I would guess. You can always retrieve the data by plugging your drive on another machine provided it's not a HDD failure issue (works cold but fails as soon as it gets hotter).

[submix8c]

1 - Clean every nook and cranny (EVERYWHERE) inside the Computer. Sometimes Dirt/Heat cause a lockup - ESPECIALLY- the CPU Fan/Heatsink and Power Supply.

2 - Restore (if possible) from GoBack (piece of junk...)

3 - Read this -

http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/74951/how-to-get-around-norton-goback/

Note that it refers to "Reinstall the OS" - ignore that -BUT you may need a Win98SE Emergency Boot Disk Floopy (go to BootDisk.com and download/create a Floppy). The reason for that is to "fix" the MBR with "fdisk /mbr" command and to use "fdisk" to set the correct partition as Active (if necessary).

 

Per Point#2 - Goback is a notorious POS piece of Software that does a worse job than WindowsME Restore Points.

 

Addendum - since loblo beat me to it, also use the Emergency Boot Disk to run a "scandisk" against the HDD. GET RID OF GOBACK for sure (IMHO)!

[pulteny]

Hi again,

 

Thank you for replies hope more to come. I would dearly like to  get rid of Go-back but as said  it goes into a  shut down loop and Go-back remains.

 

Been inside and looks very dust free and clean, The doctor checked heat sink but could not find the problem, maybe a second opinion  is required but donot want to spend a lot of money on such an old machine.

 

Moro coments please.

 

Regards pulteny.

[pulteny]

Hi again,

 

Thank you for replies hope more to come. I would dearly like to  get rid of Go-back but as said  it goes into a  shut down loop and Go-back remains.

 

Been inside and looks very dust free and clean, The doctor checked heat sink but could not find the problem, maybe a second opinion  is required but donot want to spend a lot of money on such an old machine.

 

Moro coments please.

 

Regards pulteny.

[sdfox7]

There are ways to install Windows 98 into a new folder without losing the existing data on your computer. I think it is called "over the top install".

You can use this if your registry is damaged, which I think at this point is likely.

 

Microsoft has an article regarding this: How to Install Windows 98 Into a New Folder

Also: Install Windows 98 over the top of Windows 98

Edited August 8, 2014 by sdfox7

[Drugwash]

There may still be a hardware issue. Look carefully for gonflated/leaky capacitors on the mainboard - if any, that may be the source of lockups. Such bad capacitors could also be inside the power source unit, so if you can get a compatible one for testing purposes, do replace the current PSU and see if the issue persists.

 

Also please manually check the CPU cooler temperature, see if it's too cold or too hot. It's possible that someone might have fitted the cooler the other way around and it's not touching the CPU heatsink, causing CPU overheating.

 

This may also be a malware issue. Can you check the running processes, the startup items? If so, try to build a list and post it here.

 

You may also try to boot from a live CD (if the BIOS allows it) but you'd need some old & lite Linux or something that can run on those hardware specs. Maybe a 4.x version of Knoppix would do. If the lockup does not occur, then you'd know for sure it's a software issue such as malware/bad driver/etc. If it works, you can transfer the data to an USB drive, to the other HDD or to another computer through network, if available.

[submix8c]

Apparently the OP won't be able to get/burn/use a Live CD since I gave a link to remove GoBack (also an ISO). I'm *supposing* the OP has no access to another computer to do this? Also, why has "the doctor" not tested to ensure the hardware is all good? IOW, I wouldn't pay "the doctor's bill" since the "patient" is still "sick".

[Drugwash]

Heh, years ago when I visited Wim's BIOS forum I found a guy's signature which said "never assume anything". That thing got burnt in my mind and I usually try to follow that advice. Therefore any and all proper advices should be offered and hopefully one of them will pay off. Besides, there may be other people in similar situation in time, where the solution may be in one of the other advices. It's good to have them all in one place, easy to choose from.

 

Dunno how things go in that part of the world but here we can still call friends or colleagues and ask to borrow a floppy, a CD, a PSU or even a whole computer if necessary. So-called doctors may just try to pump up the bill sometimes. Besides, it's fun trying to fix something by yourself - one gets to learn things, not to mention the satisfaction when they succeed.

[tomw]

If you want to try a Linux distribution, check out puppylinux from their download site:

http://puppylinux.org/main/Download Latest Release.htm

 Down the page a bit you can find a program to put Linux on a windows partition and install a boot loader to select Linux or window at boot time (grub boot loader)

http://puppylinux.org/main/Download%20Latest%20Release.htm#winEXE

 

 It can run from USB or CD, and there are a few other versions that support boxes running old Pentiums, such as the Wary version here:

http://puppylinuxnews.org/releases/new-wary-puppy-is-released/

( I run it on a P4 with 192M IIRC)

tom

 

 If you take a look at the capacitors on your board, check for them having bulging tops as that is a pretty good indicator of failure.  Some will blow out the bottom and sort of 'pop up' from their original position, leaving their solder leads still in place.

Edited August 11, 2014 by tomw

[pulteny]

Hi again.

 

Thank you for more replys .I am not very computer literate and a silver surfer.I have dug out the Gateway instruction book and read the details for installing windows over windows.No one has commented on the fact that it runs ok in safe mode.Surely if the cpu was over heating ths would happen there also.

 

I failed to mention the doctor added another copy of win98 on ths second hard drive,he must hve tried to boot from this with no succes.

 

glad of your continued intrest in my quest to get the thing up and running.

 

Regards pulteny

Edited August 14, 2014 by pulteny

[Drugwash]

That must've been a pet doctor!

 

In safe mode, an OS doesn't load all the drivers/services/startup apps/etc but only the bare minimum required to run diagnose, debug and repair. If your computer runs fine in safe mode then it's definitely a software issue and it lays in one of the additional pieces of software enumerated earlier. The easiest way to find out which one is to disable all of the additionals in safe mode, reboot in normal mode and if it works fine in normal mode, at that point you can start reenabling the disabled items one by one, reboot in normal mode after each enabled item and when it breaks you'll know the latest enabled item is the culprit.

 

Disabling items can be done by running msconfig from Start > Run > type 'msconfig' > press [ENTER]. Do that in safe mode.

Go to the 'Startup' tab, enlarge the window to show all items fully, take a screenshot and attach it here in a comment so we can take a look and tell you what is safe to disable. Basically first thing to disable would be 'Go back' but there may be others, even malware. Since you say you're not familiar with computers, please do not try to disable anything by yourself at this point.

 

You may also switch to the Config.sys and Autoexec.bat tabs and take screenshots of those as well, as they may contain commands to load drivers or applications.

 

 

To take a screenshot, press Left Alt and PrtScrn (Print Screen) simultaneously while the System Configuration Utility (msconfig) window is focused, then open MS Paint, press Ctrl and V to paste the image and then save it to a handy location (Desktop, My Documents or wherever you can find it quicky afterwards).

 

If you have another image-manipulation application that works in safe mode and can convert images to JPG or PNG then save the screenshots as BMP and then convert them to either JPG or PNG - whichever gets the smallest file size (since there's a limit on total attachment size here on the boards). Otherwise save the screenshots directly from MS Paint as JPG.

 

I'd recommend FastStone Image Viewer (freeware) for image manipulation, but there are others too.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Drugwash

[pulteny]

Hi drugwash

Surely everyone has worked out that I am using my other less older computer to write here.

Tried to open screenshot in paint but no luck. I seem to rember a screenshot would open with Word or note pad must ask my better half.Anyway how was I to send to here. Ithought about printing the shot out and scanning ,then attaching file on here.My old computer has no internet access to internet in safe mode. This would be read only and not a active file.

 

submix8c.

Your info on removing go-back is for a version by Norton my one is by wildfile inc.on the Gateway banner.

 

The doctor is getting a bit of stick here,he is a young guy and is not up on Win98se give him a break ,said there would be no charge but I insisted to pay what we had set on.

 

The plot thickens pulteny.

 

Up date managed to open in paint still need to know best way to post here?

Edited August 16, 2014 by pulteny

[submix8c]

GoBack - same software, different owner -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoBack

Looks like Gateway's agreement began in 1999. So, may I inform you that I removed the GoBack from someone's Windows98SE Gateway 2000 PC with that software? (Please note aquisition dates when passed from hand-to-hand)

 

Gateway's Sales Pitch -

Refers to the Adaptec "version" (98, 98SE, ME) - http://panam.gateway.com/s/issues/666801110.shtml

Also refers to WindowsME - http://panam.gateway.com/s/issues/667607110.shtml

 

So let me guess - you didn't try it, did you? Let me repeat myself - same software, different owner now, has been and always will be a pile of junk software fraught with problems. It constantly monitors all HDD activity and constantly backs up -any and all- changes, thus thrashing the crap out of the HDD's.

http://www.wikihow.com/Remove-Norton-GoBack-from-Your-PC-and-Access-the-Hard-Drive

http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/74951/how-to-get-around-norton-goback/

 

This - http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/GoBack

 

Norton GoBack (previously known as Wildfile GoBack, Adaptec GoBack, Roxio GoBack) is a Microsoft Windows based disk utility.

A rose by any other name is still a rose. I'll not say it again (since you want to argue/ignore) - Try it or don't try it. Your choice...

Edited August 16, 2014 by submix8c

[Drugwash]

Hi drugwash

Surely everyone has worked out that I am using my other less older computer to write here.

Tried to open screenshot in paint but no luck. I seem to rember a screenshot would open with Word or note pad must ask my better half.Anyway how was I to send to here. Ithought about printing the shot out and scanning ,then attaching file on here.My old computer has no internet access to internet in safe mode. This would be read only and not a active file.

 

[...]

 

Up date managed to open in paint still need to know best way to post here?

Images can be transferred through USB stick, floppy disk, can be burnt on (re)writable CD/DVDs or the respective HDD can be moved and connected to the working computer where the images can be copied and the possibly faulty HDD can be checked for hardware/software problems. It all depends on the existing hardware/media and of course the corresponding level of knowledge.

 

Images can be attached to comments by using the [More reply options] button at the bottom-right of the page; alternatively they can be posted to online image hosts and then linked to them here.

 

If you really can't get the screenshots posted, you may bite the bullet and disable anything in msconfig related to the assumingly faulty software namely GoBack. It may be enough at least to let you restart in normal mode and perform additional tasks such as uninstalling the software, checking for faults using Scandisk etc.

 

I'd really like a confirmation from submix8c whether disabling startup items related to GoBack would be safe and could help in fixing the issue. Thank you.

 

Oh and don't mind the jokes - I'm sure the doctor was just trying to help the best he could with the tools at hand.