W98 fails to set-up hardware - help request please

[Jonssen]

Hi All,

Wonder if someone would be kind enough to help me with this please - W98 won't recognise and set-up hardware.

From the begining:

ISA Sound card stopped functioning (no sound) - device manager suggested a problem - reinstall driver.

System then asked me about reconfiguring LPTs which I didn't want to do, so terminated.

System then lost all access to exp-cards (display, scsi, ethernet) - display was left functioning at VGA.

Managed to get display to function by swapping the display adaptor (card) and re-installing drivers.

Unable to get W98 to recognise ethernet, scsi - also USB connection gone. LPT1 and printer still works. (LPT2 [card] not used, so not tried, but appears ok in device mgr.)

Tried different ethernet cards - no luck.

Device manager will either show no expansion hardware, or device with problem. (Most motherboard items, except USB, seem ok - e.g. Drives A,B, C,D, F, PS2 mouse, k/b.)

In 'safe mode' most things show as functioning in device manager and pretty much all looks present (whereas it isn't in normal mode).

Scsi devices show on boot-up and can access the scsi drive (Jaz) at DOS level using W98 start-up disk (but that doesn't help much).

Have tried all the usual add hardware functions and have tweeked the registry setup flags (as per MS support instructions) to cause W98 to re-run hardware detection. It starts, gets to about 3-4% on the progress ribbon, that panel disappears and then the system just loads W98 still without hardware. (Tried lots of times).

I have a back-up, but it's on Jaz (via scsi), and I can't access it in W98. Loath to run W98 set-up if I can avoid it... (worried about intergrity of Jaz for a full HD restore).

Has anyone got any suggestions?

Thanks.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Jonssen

[jaclaz]

Post a description of the actual hardware it is.

As a General rule of thumb, open the case, remove each and every piece of hardware connected to it that is detachable (ALL add on cards and disks).

Re-connect only the minimum needed things:

1. some RAM
   
2. a floppy drive
   
3. a video card
   

besides a keyboard and a mouse.

Try booting from floppy, possibly run from it some DOS hardware tests.

Then try again re-connecting ONLY the "system" hard disk, and try to boot in "safe mode".

Then try again "normally".

If everything works, forget about anything else but the SCSI card you *need* to access the back-up. (which specific card is it? One of those cheap "Iomega" ones or a "good" one?)

How exactly was the "backup made"?

Are you sure there isn't a way to restore it from "pure DOS"?

Report what happens.

jaclaz

Edited November 30, 2012 by jaclaz

[Jonssen]

Hi, Thanks for responding. Sorry for the delay to reply, I took the weekend off for a break.

Post a description of the actual hardware it is.

jaclaz

OK, let me just deal with this first:

Asus P2B, Bios Rev. 1012 (Award Bios V4.54PG)

PII 450

328MB Ram

Matrox Millenium II AGP (as now, was prev. Matrox G400 Dual Head AGP before it went wonky)

IIyama 454 HM-903DTA

A FDD (Teac, as I recall)

B FDD 5,1/4" (brand unsure, been in there since '97)

C HDD Hitachi Deskstar 3.5" 40GB (32GB)

D HDD Quantum Fireball ST 3.5" 6GB

Plextor 40/12/40A PX-W4012A

Iomega Jaz 2GB

Adaptec AHA-2940AU (Scsi) PCI

3Com 10/100 NIC 3C905C-TXM PCI

LPT2 ISA TC-020-EP2 (brand unsure, been in there since '97)

Finally, there was a Creative Soundblaster AWE64 Gold ISA sound card in there, but that's the bit that started all this and I think it's failed in hardware so it's removed (that had been in there since '97 too)

Moving on, I've done much as you describe. Makes no difference (so far). The problem is that W98 (i.e. that installed on drive C, the system/boot drive) won't recognise hardware - it won't run hardware detection, something is stopping it. It has to do that in 'normal' mode.

"possibly run from it some DOS hardware tests." - such as? (I believe it's not a hardware issue, I believe it's an O/S hardware detection issue.)

"How exactly was the "backup made"?" - Iomega Tools, 'one step back-up'

"Are you sure there isn't a way to restore it from "pure DOS"?" - Yes

Thanks!

Edited December 4, 2012 by Jonssen

[jaclaz]

The "idea" behind removing "ALL" (which is NOT "some") detachable hardware is three-fold.

1. The hardware detection "probes" the hardware in a given sequence, if it finds "an issue" it is possible that it fails and stops, you know like :

   It starts, gets to about 3-4% on the progress ribbon, that panel disappears and then the system just loads W98 still without hardware.

2. For all we know either the PSU or *any* of the hardware add-ons may have "aged" and the former may provide less current than needed or the latter may require more current then before.
   
3. The more hardware is connected to the mainboard, the more likely a IRQ or however resource conflict may arise.
   

JFYI the Iomega docs:

http://www.iomega.com/support/manuals/ioback/iomegabackup_c.pdf

talk about a two floppy set for "emergency restore"

jaclaz

[Jonssen]

Hi, Thanks again for your reply. I will try again on the 'remove ALL hardware' proposal as soon as I am in a position to risk totally loosing access to drive C (as that poses some issues mid-week). I'll revert. Meanwhile:-

JFYI the Iomega docs:

http://www.iomega.com/support/manuals/ioback/iomegabackup_c.pdf

talk about a two floppy set for "emergency restore"

jaclaz

I think if you read the PDF again you'll see that:

firstly) the ref. to the floppies is the creation of a normal W98 start up disk (x2) set and

secondly) on page 6, paras 1 & 2 it explains it's strictly a W98 restore (i.e. normal mode) and not DOS or 'safe' mode.

The fact is you cannot run '1-step restore' until you have loaded W98 and installed Iomega tools (unfortunately).

You will see there is no mention of the use of floppies at the restore stage.

Thanks.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Jonssen

[jaclaz]

I think if you read the PDF again you'll see that:

firstly) the ref. to the floppies is the creation of a normal W98 start up disk (x2) set and

secondly) on page 6, paras 1 & 2 it explains it's strictly a W98 restore (i.e. normal mode) and not DOS or 'safe' mode.

The fact is you cannot run '1-step restore' until you have loaded W98 and installed Iomega tools (unfortunately).

You will see there is no mention of the use of floppies at the restore stage.

Sure, the document sucks big (as well as the Iomega software and the actual Jazz hardware and - if we are at it - your choosing that crap as backup solution), I find "queer" however that TWO floppies are made calling them "emergency restore startup disk set" if they are not an "emergency restore startup disk set", in the sense that by using them you are not able to perform an emergency restore .

If they are a "normal W98 start up disk (x2) set", they are actually ABnormal as a W98 startup disk is a single floppy and not a 2x set.

The fact that an "introducing" document "Getting Started" does not enter in the detail of how to use those disks and merely cites them should mean that another document, like a "full manual", exists that details the mentioned floppy disk set and their use.

It is well possible that the good Iomega guys just decided to have you waste 2 floppies that are completely unneeded/unuseful, though.

jaclaz

Edited December 6, 2012 by jaclaz

[submix8c]

re: Restore Floppies - this describes the floppy contents. NOT just a "boot floppy".

HTH

edit -

JAZ 2g Internal SCSI specs -

https://iomega-na-en.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/112

Manual (online only, apparently) -

http://www.iomega.com/support/manuals/jaz2i/home.html

"Sign Up for Support" -

https://iomega-na-en.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/12227/kw/iomegaware

Not very helpful...

Useless link that points to "redirect"/nothing for you -

http://www.iomega.com/support/documents/10285.html

Some info/filenames here but links to inaccessible FTP site -

http://pw2.netcom.com/~deepone/zipjaz/download.html

And a side note - the JAZ drive requires that the SCSI card be recognized first (but you knew that, right?).

Latest IomegaWare is available IF you sign up for an account. AFAICR, I had to do that for ZIP-100 drives I had (and got rid of since I had no disks).

https://iomega-na-en.custhelp.com/app/cust_alp/p/8,60

edit (again...) if you KNOW the filename/location in the FTP it's accessible (just downloaded the 1st file listed in that PW2-link I gave).

FWIW, here is a listy of files on the FTP site

ftp://ftp.iomega.com/english.public/_readme.txt

Still, no clue as to the use of Backup if it's inaccessible under DOS...

Edited December 6, 2012 by submix8c

[Jonssen]

Guys, this is a fine academic conversation but forgive me if I mention that it's going off topic so I'd appreciate if we could re-direct the thread back towards getting my W98 to recognise hardware please.

...just quickly

If they are a "normal W98 start up disk (x2) set", they are actually ABnormal as a W98 startup disk is a single floppy and not a 2x set.

...your choosing that crap as backup solution....

jaclaz

IIRC, when W98 set up runs it invites the user to make two (copies) of the W98 start-up floppies - which I beleive is where the (x2) might come from.

In the late 90's there wasn't that much around that could carry 1 or 2GB at a competitive cost, particularly with the flexibility of a non-linear format.

re: Restore Floppies - this describes the floppy contents. NOT just a "boot floppy".

And a side note - the JAZ drive requires that the SCSI card be recognized first (but you knew that, right?).

There is another style of Iomega back-up (Iomega Ware) which I believe came later on to which this instance of floppies may possibly refer - it is not the Iomega Tools '1-step back-up' that I have used. (I have the 'manual' if you can call it that along with the Iomega [Jaz] Tools on CD).

Remember that Iomega Zip discs were also refered to as 'floppies' - Zip being a high capacity FDD.

Scsi - yes, that's covered in the thread (and that's one of this issues - please see my initial posts).

I plan to work on this again on Saturday - I wonder if there is a way to delete something W98 creates at set-up so that it has to re-write the hardware profile?? Anyone with any ideas?

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/windows-98-log-files-and-utilities-help-you-troubleshoot-your-hardware/1052476

I need to get W98 NOT to fail to recognise hardware, as it is doing at the moment! (BTW, HDDs are recognised in BIOS, so I don't see how your idea of removing C: will help as I can't run W98 in normal mode without it and, unless W98 is run in normal mode, W98 hardware detection doesn't function...)

Edited December 8, 2012 by Jonssen

[jaclaz]

I don't want to be grumpier than usual, but you came here and asked for some ideas and were given a suggested procedure.

Why don't you simply try doing what you were suggested?

Mind you I have no way to know if it will help, it is merely what I would do if I were in the same situation you are, but until you try it (and hopefully *something* changes in the startup) there is not much else that you can do.

Since you are having issue in the "recognizing hardware", it is only too obvious that the less hardware Windows finds the less probabilities it has to choke on a given item (if the item is not there anymore), but of course you are perfectly free to ignore the given advice and do another thing instead.

You could try - but this is a "high risk" procedure - to delete the VMM32.VXD and restore the "base" one from the install CD:

http://www.easydesksoftware.com/news/news10.htm

jaclaz

[submix8c]

In addition to jaclaz' comment -

Unable to get W98 to recognise ethernet, scsi - also USB connection gone.

So, the DRIVERS aren't being "found".

In 'safe mode' most things show as functioning in device manager and pretty much all looks present (whereas it isn't in normal mode).

You ARE aware that SAFE MODE, they are NOT functioning since SAFE MODE bypasses LOADING drivers, right?

Scsi devices show on boot-up and can access the scsi drive (Jaz) at DOS level using W98 start-up disk (but that doesn't help much).

That's because your Startup Disk has the needed... DOS DRIVERS!

Adaptec AHA-2940AU (Scsi) PCI

Scsi - yes, that's covered in the thread (and that's one of this issues - please see my initial posts).

And AGAIN, you are OBVIOUSLY missing the DRIVERS (for some reason). You NEED the AHA Drivers within Windows to get to the JAZ driver which is CONNECTED to it. Be aware that SOMETIMES not ALL files necessary are copied to the CORRECT place on the HDD for "reinstall".

Have you tried a DIRECT REINSTALL of the AHA-SCSI drivers from a SOURCE and NOT "the usual auto-find"?

In SAFE MODE, do what jaclaz said - REMOVE everything and "start from scratch". Reinstall ALL drivers and software as necessary. Get everything you need. In addition, since you claim your USB's aren't recognized i'm rather confused since this is an ASUS P2B 440BX-based Mobo. They SHOULD have shown and functioned after deletion and "reload" - reboot to Normal and "Add New Hardware". This Mobo SHOULD be a rather "standard" Win98-supported Intel Mobo.

And... don't believe ALL of the MS-suggested methods - just SAFE MODE/DELETE/REBOOT/ADD NEW and it WILL work (or SHOULD). Jaclaz is correct - if ANY not found - FORCE REINSTALL form ORIGINAL sources, and NOT from HDD "aut-find" if any do NOT function afterward.

[Jonssen]

I don't want to be grumpier than usual, but you came here and asked for some ideas and were given a suggested procedure.

Why don't you simply try doing what you were suggested?

jaclaz

Hi,

I have done what you suggested previously - it didn't achieve anything.

(You're grumpy? How do you think I feel?! Sorry... )

Edited December 10, 2012 by Jonssen

[Jonssen]

In addition to jaclaz' comment -

Unable to get W98 to recognise ethernet, scsi - also USB connection gone.

So, the DRIVERS aren't being "found". - No, I believe it is the HARDWARE that isn't being found - it doesn't get as far as asking for drivers.

In 'safe mode' most things show as functioning in device manager and pretty much all looks present (whereas it isn't in normal mode).

You ARE aware that SAFE MODE, they are NOT functioning since SAFE MODE bypasses LOADING drivers, right? - Yes (hence why I used the term 'show as functioning'), and neither does HARDWARE detection.

Scsi devices show on boot-up and can access the scsi drive (Jaz) at DOS level using W98 start-up disk (but that doesn't help much).

That's because your Startup Disk has the needed... DOS DRIVERS! - I believe that's because the SCSI adaptor is detected at BIOS level (per boot screen remarks) and I can subsequently load an Adaptec SCSI driver at DOS level if I wish to (which will show a SCSI disk drive) and further run Iomega guest.exe which with 'mount' it as a JAZ drive - neither of which are helpful save that they show the devices are working.

Adaptec AHA-2940AU (Scsi) PCI

Scsi - yes, that's covered in the thread (and that's one of this issues - please see my initial posts).

And AGAIN, you are OBVIOUSLY missing the DRIVERS (for some reason). You NEED the AHA Drivers within Windows to get to the JAZ driver which is CONNECTED to it. - Yes, for sure, if only there was a SCSI adaptor detected/recognised to be driven! Be aware that SOMETIMES not ALL files necessary are copied to the CORRECT place on the HDD for "reinstall". Yes - aware.

Have you tried a DIRECT REINSTALL of the AHA-SCSI drivers from a SOURCE and NOT "the usual auto-find"? - Yes, I did try that at the outset when the SCSI adaptor was showing as a device with a problem, but it didn't work.

In SAFE MODE, do what jaclaz said - REMOVE everything and "start from scratch". - Physically I have (it didn't help). The only thing I haven't done (yet) in safe mode yet is to remove all devices in Device Manager, the reason being because HARDWARE detection isn't working I might not get them back (e.g. I might loose the graphics adaptor, perhaps... I don't know...)

Reinstall ALL drivers and software as necessary. Get everything you need. - I beleive I have everything I need, except HARDWARE detection.

In addition, since you claim your USB's aren't recognized i'm rather confused since this is an ASUS P2B 440BX-based Mobo. They SHOULD have shown and functioned after deletion and "reload" - reboot to Normal and "Add New Hardware". - So far they don't.

This Mobo SHOULD be a rather "standard" Win98-supported Intel Mobo. - Yes, quite.

And... don't believe ALL of the MS-suggested methods - just SAFE MODE/DELETE/REBOOT/ADD NEW and it WILL work (or SHOULD). Jaclaz is correct - if ANY not found - FORCE REINSTALL form ORIGINAL sources, and NOT from HDD "aut-find" if any do NOT function afterward. - At the very outset and since I have tried this and the only success I had was to get it to accept a different AGP Graphics adaptor (the Millenium II mentioned in the hardware list). I have deleted one item of hardware within Device Manager in SAFE mode and I was unable to get it back in NORMAL mode. As I said it won't 'see' the hardware. (I will experiment further in this respect and revert with anything relevent that I find, good or bad!.)

Finally, don't think that I'm ignoring your ideas guys, I'm very grateful for the input, but so far I can't get anything to move forward - I just get the same (non) function issues (or sometimes worse as windoz decides to mess about, but when I clear that it just reaches the same point and I can't get further forward - as I said, so far).

Edited December 10, 2012 by Jonssen

[Jonssen]

You could try - but this is a "high risk" procedure - to delete the VMM32.VXD and restore the "base" one from the install CD:

jaclaz

Having done a bit of checking, I believe VMM32.VXD is ok.

[jumper]

>ISA Sound card stopped functioning (no sound) - device manager suggested a problem - reinstall driver.

Some possible causes (and actions to take) for this root problem:

1. CMOS battery died / BIOS IRQ settings changed
   + Voltage should be at least 2v else replace battery; reset BIOS; set IRQs as needed
   
2. Registry / drivers corrupted
   + scandisk HDD to ensure it's not a wider issue
   + In DOS, "Regedit /restore" last saved registry prior to failure
   + "Regedit /fix" current registry only if no viable backup
   
3. Sound card died
   + shutdown and pull the card
   + if detection problems for other devices persist, remove ALL hardware (especially mainboard!) drivers in Safe mode
   + optionally: reinstall sound card once everything else is working and backed-up (if you dare)
   
4. Mainboard failure: dust in other sockets fried ISA bus; something got zapped; etc.
   + short term: clean thoroughly; you might be able to run with reduced functionality
   + long term: replace mainboard
   

I strongly suspect a battery failure, BIOS change, or addition/removal of cards that would change IRQ settings. Most devices are plug-and-play and Windows would adjust, but non-PNP devices such as ISA cards would need redetection.

If you did anything in the BIOS or anything inside or outside the case (plugging in or out cards or cables) prior to the sound card failure, please report.

[submix8c]

...hence the suggestion BOOT TO SAFE, DELETE ALL, REBOOT, FORCE "ADD NEW HARDWARE"...

This is the generally accepted Tried and True method. I'd bet $0.10 to a doughnut that you have MULTIPLE occurrences of Devices for any given TYPE in the Registry that WILL "hork up" proper detection.

BTW, are you aware that you can RENAME "C:\WINDOWS\WIN.COM" (from a DOS floppy or "Safe Mode Command Prompt Only" - PURE DOS) and force a Reinstall of Win98, keeping all REG settings and Post-Initial-OS-Install installed Software (etc.) as well? Here is a reference point for this - be SURE that the WINDOWS folder is selected as noted. And NO it doesn't matter what "type" (i.e. OEM, Retail, or Upgrade - NOT a "Stepup/Update"). Windows 98 on First HDD and First Partition REQUIRED. You'll naturally have to apply ANY/ALL Updates to Win98 (they get overlayed during Reinstall) and "potentially" some Drivers (due to older versions that MAY be installed). This method is similar in nature to an "over-the top Reinstall" of XP.

Your choices, dude. Be obstinate or follow the instructions.