Decided to Move on From Windows 98SE

[Monroe]

I guess all things come to an end eventually ... I debated whether to even mention it on the forum, most people here could probably care less but a few might be interested in my decision. Part of the decision is due to age, I'm probably older than most members here, but I'm sure I'm not the "record holder" ... at least I hope not! Part of the decision also deals with my notebook computers ... I own three Thinkpad T series notebooks ... one T41 and two T42 notebooks. I bought them because they were listed as decent products and were also listed as the last T series notebooks to work with Windows 98SE. They all came with Windows XP Pro installed which was taken off and replaced with Windows 98SE as quick as I could. This all worked very good for several years and it was fun finding out about new fixes such as KernelEx and additional software discoveries. However, even though the Thinkpads were listed as working with Windows 98SE ... it just wasn't 100% satisfaction on my part mainly due to the WiFi part. The two T42s have built in WiFi and that has always been "hit and miss" ... I've made several trips to WiFi spots and just couldn't get connected and other days everything went OK (for awhile) ... there was much frustration there ... the T41 has no WiFi adapter so I have a Netgear card for that and it mostly works well but acts up sometimes, I think in conflict with the IBM WiFi drivers that still must be installed to get all yellow exclamination marks in the Device Manager to go away. I have tried to use the Netgear card on the T42s but there's a clash somewhere and the computer just freezes up with every install.

Also, I have been very disappointed with USB 2.0 flash drive speed with Windows 98SE ... I dealt with all this in another thread that some of you have probably read. Lately, I have been getting the BSOD more often and the Explorer error box when I close some folders and then computer freezes with that. A lot of this is probably due to "pushing" Windows 98SE into new territory and challenges in the last year or two. I rarely had the BSOD ever show up but in the last year or so, that statement has changed somewhat.

Anyway, I just decided that Windows XP will probably work better on these Thinkpads even though Windows 98SE was also listed as "OK" to use. As I mentioned earlier about the age part, I just want to turn a computer on now and have it start up fast and go right to work. Have had XP up an running for a few days and finished installing many programs that were on the Windows 98SE setup. I have made XP look as much as my Windows 98SE setup with the Classic folders and a few other settings ... so far things seem to be running very well or much better on the XP setup. The WiFI problems seem to have gone away but I am still working on all that, haven't fully tested everything yet ... but the WiFi looks better than it did with Windows 98SE ... I'm thinking the IBM drivers work better with XP.

I have a Dell Latitude Pentium 3 computer that will continue to have Windows 98SE installed ... 98SE always worked very well on the Dell as it was made for that OS anyway. I remember when XP came out and how I hated it and had no interest in it ... probably because it was the "new kid" on the block and no way would I ever have anything to do with it. Well, now Windows XP is riding out to the "Last Sunset" behind Windows 98 and I have "mellowed" in my thoughts and feelings about the aging OS. As I said earlier, I want a computer that will start up, run fast and have very few problems for the future. I have to admit that years later, Windows XP "ain't all that bad". I sure have a faster running notebook and my 2.0 flash drives are working as they should.

As I said, I'll still have my Dell with Windows 98SE fully installed and working so I'll still be hanging around for news and fresh ideas. I actually have 98SE Ghost backups on all the three Thinkpad notebooks from May 1st and in no time could change everything back from NTFS to FAT32. Just now thinking that I can live in both worlds of Windows 98SE and XP.

thanks ...

[UltimateSilence]

IMHO, WIndows XP is the next best thing (perhaps even better due to it having more features).

I run Windows 98SE and Windows XP on the same desktop computer, and it really is hard to notice a difference between the two at times.

[Foxbat]

I have been lurking in these forums for four years before finally joining in 2011, when my first minor contribution to this community was to aide in your search for a good Win98SE FLV player. In the past five years, I've seen many Win9x regulars go (and some banned). It's always sad to lose another member of this community, whether it is a partial leave, or never to be heard from again. For some, it's only a matter of time. I do appreciate that you've opted to post your decision. I too have been contemplating if I should post about my leave when my time eventually comes. I know my Win9x days are numbered. It makes me wonder what the Win9x forum will be like in the coming years as the digital world continues to be less Win9x friendly.

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

I've seen many Win9x regulars go (and some banned). It's always sad to lose another member of this community, whether it is a partial leave, or never to be heard from again. For some, it's only a matter of time.

Its a shame All good things must come to an end. I buy old laptops on craigslist, just so I can run Win98. Most are in mint condition. This might help if you decided to come back.

[Tripredacus]

I have a Dell Latitude Pentium 3 computer that will continue to have Windows 98SE installed ... 98SE always worked very well on the Dell as it was made for that OS anyway.

I'm in the same boat. I still have my Win98 PC from many years ago but I rarely use it. Too busy using Win7, but its good to know that backup PC is still there in case I need it.

[dencorso]

I too have been contemplating if I should post about my leave when my time eventually comes. I know my Win9x days are numbered.

When I faced that decision, I found out I just could not bear the idea of never more using Win 98SE... so I moved on to my present multiboot configuration (described in the > 1 GiB list). It took me some time to make it work in a really confortable way, but now I have Win XP SP3, Win 98SE, Slax, TinHat and two different PEs as boot options: it solved my problems and let me keep using Win 9x. I'm saying all this just to point out there's a third option, that is, going multiboot. It also helped me learn how to use XP effectively, because every time I was stuck with something, I could easily fall back to Win 98SE and get it done first, and then figure it out how I might do it with XP at easy, instead of in a hurry. The day I end up with no hardware whatsoever capable of running Win 9x will be the day I'll move my 9x to a virtual machine. By now, I really do intend to keep going, no matter what, because I'm sure it's possible if I add virtual machines to the equation, when it proves to be inevitable.

[Monroe]

Thanks Guys for the replies ... the one thing I didn't want to happen was to start a "shooting war" between Windows 98SE and XP ... and that's not happening. So I decided to make my earlier post. Yes, I realize I could maybe pick up a few older computers but I made my decision in 2009 to buy these Thinkpad T series notebooks, bought my third one last October (2011). I spent a lot of money on them since ... additional memory on two of them, three DVD burners and larger Hard Drives for all three. As I said earlier, these IBM notebooks were bought to put Windows 98SE on and also because they had USB 2.0 ports ... my older Dell Latitude has the older USB port. It was a lot of fun converting these Thinkpads over to Windows 98SE and I always had fun looking at someone's facial expressions when I tell them I'm still using Windows 98SE in today's world ... but then I explain about the MSFN group and how people from all around the world have helped keep Windows 98SE going strong into 2011 / 2012. I tell them that it's actually better now than when MS left it go some years back.

I have new chances and challenges with XP to explore and once I get all my settings fixed and Ghost backups made then I want to try out having Windows 98SE and XP on the same computer ... and hunt around for older software for XP and probably 98SE also. In 2005/2006 I started to hunt around for everything I could find for Windows 98SE and burn everything to CDs/DVDs since Windows 98SE software links were starting to disappear. I will probably do that now with XP while the software links are still good and working.

Like I also said earlier, the age thing has something to do with my decision also ... just want something more stable and less problems to deal with when I turn the computer on. Finding little XP fixes and settings here and there ... I knew the day would come and eventually I would move on to XP. I have no plans for anything newer ... I think XP will do me just fine for the future, along with firing up the old Dell Windows 98SE computer every now and then.

As these two old Operating Systems fade further into history, it's nice to know they are still very usable in 2012.

... just to add ... dencorso, that's also my interest of trying Windows 98SE in a Virtual Machine setup. I don't know much about doing it for now but that will be a future project.

.

Edited May 11, 2012 by duffy98

[Fredledingue]

HI Duffy, I hope you will still hang around here for the fun of it.

Too many poeple leave without a word.

Everyone of us who is still not on dual-boot is facing the need for another OS.

Not because other versions of windows are better, definetely not, but because it's the only way to get thinks working.

For you, it's WiFi, for me it's interactive websites such as Facebook and Google map, the USB is also very slow on my PC (but I'v seen XP machine being dead slow on USB too), for others it will a scanner or a printer...

Dual boot or having two computers linked with a KVM switch is the best option as you still can run w98 for the things that work fine, or to browse the internet safely.

One thing I don't get thought, I don't want to start an OS flame war and honestly beyond w9x I feel no emotion about whatever you use, but technicaly why Windows XP and not Windows 7?

Should I buy a new computer it would be W7. Once you get into the NT family, why not taking the last and most fixed platform?

Wasn't XP support supposed to be discountined this year or something?

I understand if it's a question of money, but else...?

I promise if my PC dies and I buy a new one it will be kick-a** fast, up-to-date till the last second, but...

...I will also DISMANTLE WINDOWS 7 DOWN TO THE CHASSIS and make it the way I want it, with the same feel of speed and simplicity as in w9x.

[Monroe]

Hi Fredledingue ... well the "flame war" over XP and Windows 98SE is probably pretty much in the past since these two OSs are now sharing the same fate ... but I remember years back when someone using XP would drop into this forum and start an argument over the "best" operating system and one of the Moderators would have to get involved. As to buying a new Windows 7 computer ... yes, I could do that but I seem to like Windows XP for now. I think I will have a very good setup on all three of my Thinkpads once I get everything finally to my liking and they will still have some "Windows 98SE" nostalgia to them.

I plan on still being around, just not active with very many questions unless the "dual boot" or "virtual machine" doesn't go as planned but there is plenty of information on all that at MSFN ... just have to dig it out. Also, if I stumble across some nice Windows 98SE software, I'll be posting.

thanks ...

[loblo]

Good riddance!

Just joking of course.

[Multibooter]

I guess all things come to an end eventually ... Part of the decision is due to age, I'm probably older than most members here, but I'm sure I'm not the "record holder" ... I just decided that Windows XP will probably work better ... I just want to turn a computer on now and have it start up fast and go right to work...I have made XP look as much as my Windows 98SE setup with the Classic folders and a few other settings ... so far things seem to be running very well or much better on the XP setup... I actually have 98SE Ghost backups ... and in no time could change everything back from NTFS to FAT32. Just now thinking that I can live in both worlds of Windows 98SE and XP.

Hi duffy98,

I have also migrated most of my applications from Win98SE to WinXP. I am currently using WinXP 80% of the time, Win98SE 20%. Although my use of Win98SE has decreased, Win98SE will stay on my computers indefinitely, and I still consider myself a Win98-guy. I have on all my computers a multi-booting setup, which allows me to use DOS, Win98SE and WinXP.

I am still browsing quite a bit under Win98SE, mainly for better privacy and nearly always when going to dangerous sites where there is a risk to catch a trojan/virus.

Win98SE on my computers is turning slowly but steadily into a special-purpose operating system, for special tasks:

1) to fix up the HDD with Norton Disk Doctor 2004, after WinXP crashes badly and before rebooting again into WinXP. WinXP, when restarting after a real bad crash, can on rare occasions auto-destroy itself by deleting/"repairing" essential files. NDD also repairs the boot area of a FAT32 drive/partition, when it contains invalid information about the drive's free space. WinXP reports such drives as Ok, but doesn't work properly anymore.

2) to partition new hard disk drives (mainly external 1TB drives) with PowerQuest PartitionMagic v8.01 Build 1274 into several logical FAT32 partitions [each up to 192GB] and one logical NTFS partition. I would not entrust my precious archived data to HDDs partitioned with other partitioning software.

3) to create and restore images, under Win98SE, of WinXP partitions with Norton Ghost v11.0.2 standalone

4) to repair file system errors on FAT32 partitions, created under WinXP [e.g. path name too long, created when copying a folder with already a long path as a subfolder into another folder with also a long path]. Files with such errors cannot be accessed or deleted under WinXP. Under Win98 such files can be accessed/deleted in a DOS window using the short DOS file name, which is not possible in a WinXP Command window.

5) as a repository of old versions of software, which can do things which newer versions can't. Under WinXP I have installed the newer version. Eventually I will have installed for many applications an especially interesting older version under Win98SE, and a more recent version under WinXP.

Here an example, although a little off topic: Under Win98SE I have installed Jasc Paint Shop Pro v7.0.4, while under WinXP I have v9.0.1. The main difference between these two versions is a "trojan" module, provided by government agencies shortly after Sep.11, 2001, in the name of fighting banknote forgeries. Paint Shop Pro v7.0.4, Adobe Photoshop v7.0.1 and Adobe Photoshop Elements v2.0.2 were the last builds tested which do not check what you are scanning. Newer versions contain a "trojan" module and when scanning a banknote (e.g. $5 and higher) display a warning message and connect to the internet. The exact content of this "trojan" module has not been disclosed, no idea whether additional stuff, besides the banknote-checking, is included.

BTW, the builds of Paint Shop Pro with the built-in "trojan" module require IE 6.0 or higher, and don't install if IE 6.0 or higher is not present. The last version of Paint Shop Pro which does not include this "trojan" module (i.e. v7.0.4) does not have this requirement. No idea why scanning software would all on a sudden require an Internet browser - or does the "trojan"module require IE6? Maybe spyware by the government requires IE6, the browser which shipped with WinXP. Could the government have discouraged support for Win98, so that the majority of computers in the world would have WinXP/IE6 (or higher) as a standard interface for built-in government backdoors? Win98, old software and old hardware might provide some privacy from the prying eyes of Big Brother.

6) to search for files. Win98 Find is much superior to the WinXP Search:

a) WinXP Search also searches in .zip archives, making it painfully slow if big .zip files are in the search path, and occasionally it seems to be making endless loops

b ) Win98 Find even finds nearly-invisible "cloaked" files. Kaspersky Anti-Virus 6, for example, hides the license key, downloaded from their registration server after entering a new activation code, until the first reboot, as a cloaked file, invisible under Win98/XP. Win98 Find, however, can find it and save it. Of course the recovered key should not be used to activate Kaspersky on other computers, or under WinXP.

c) If WinXP resides on a FAT32 partition, Win98 Find can easily find anything hidden or cloaked under WinXP. Could one imagine the excellent Win98 Find being replaced with a toothless WinXP Search doggie with a wagging tail, so that it could be harder to find cloaked stuff, like government rootkits?

7) to download signature updates for Kaspersky Anti-Virus 6, and then make them available in the Update Folder. Kaspersky Anti-Virus 6 on other computers/operating system installations can update their signatures from this Update Folder. Since Kaspersky 6 was installed initially under Win98 on my computer, I also download the signature updates under Win98. Kaspersky Anti-Virus 6 under Win98SE can also scan the WinXP partition (FAT32) and other computers across the network.

8) to run GRDuw, an excellent floppy-disk software, which does not run under WinXP

9) to run Visual Basic 6/Visual Studio 6. Supposedly, but I haven't tried it yet, Visual Basic 6 applications work fine under Linux+Vine. My first programming language was BASIC, 41 years ago, and I have a piece of software written with the MS Basic Compiler 30 years ago, which I may bring over to Linux, as an exercise. Actually I have wanted to migrate from Microsoft to Unix/Linux for the past 30 years, but I never got around, there were just too many new applications on the Microsoft platform and not enough time. Eventually one migrates there where most of one's applications are. Multi-booting allows you to keep your old toolbox.

duffy 98, don't give up on Win98SE, go the multi-booting route.

Regarding the installation of WinXP there may be two considerations to think about:

1) WinXP works just as fine on a FAT32 partition and a FAT32 partition can be accessed under Win98

2) A registered WinXP could perhaps be compared to crippled software. When a cloned HDD, with Win98 on it, is inserted into another computer, the only technical issues may be with drivers. A cloned HDD with a not crippled WinXP could perhaps work technically fine with most computers, without the driver issues of Win98, but it is advised against here, unless the appropriate licenses are obtained.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Multibooter

[Multibooter]

Dual boot or having two computers linked with a KVM switch is the best option

Hi Fredledingue,

I have 2 computers on my desk running at the same time, my Asus dual-core desktop (1600x1200 display) and my 11-year-old Inspiron 7500 laptop (1400x1050 display). Both computers are connected perfectly to each other via a wireless network, under both WinXP and Win98SE. The 2 screens on the desk make it easier to work on 2 different projects at the same time. My desktop and laptop computers are multi-booting, contain roughly the same software and have a very similar icon layout on the screen, under both Win98 and WinXP.

technicaly why Windows XP and not Windows 7?

Definitely WinXP, NOT Windows 7, at least for me: I had DOS, Win98SE, WinXP and Windows Vista installed on the same computer with System Commander. I removed Windows Vista again because it had aggressive behaviour towards the partitions of the other operating systems and I didn't want to endanger my main work horses. PartitonMagic v8.01 doesn't work with Vista partitions, neither does Partition Table Doctor v3.5 http://www.ptdd.com/features.htm , so Vista should probably be installed on another internal HDD ( I actually installed Vista on a 2nd internal HDD). So you need an extra HDD spinning all the time, for whatever additional applications Win7 offers over WinXP.

Also, when you get Win7, it is quite likely that older hardware/add-ons/peripherals will NOT work with it. Here an example: You can currently get at ebay or craigslist in the US a lot of good, working scanners, which people can't use anymore after they "upgraded" to Windows 7. About a month ago I bought at a garage sale a nicely working CanoScan N1240U scanner (1200dpi, USB) for $2. The seller was kind of sad and would have kept it, it had served him well for a long time, but it didn't work with his new Windows 7 computer, no drivers.

Finding CPUs, motherboards, video cards, WLAN cards, printers and scanners which are compatible with both Win98SE and Windows 7 is probably a challenge. Maybe feasible in a big market like the US, less feasible in small countries.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Multibooter

[Multibooter]

The day I end up with no hardware whatsoever capable of running Win 9x will be the day I'll move my 9x to a virtual machine.

Hi dencorso,

Last call to stock up on Win98-compatible hardware, the shelves will be empty next year. The pipeline of Win98-compatible hardware is about to dry up, most of the old hardware seems to have gone already to the trash/recycler. In California, for example, not much Win98-compatible computer stuff is offered at garage sales anymore.

[Monroe]

Multibooter ... man thanks a lot for taking the time to type all that information in your post. Some very interesting stuff you posted plus many ideas on using the two OSs together. As soon as I can get this WiFI thing resolved and get some more XP settings in place, I will take one of those notebooks and start to experiment. All three hard drives have been changed to NTFS ... so I can then partition maybe 20 or 40 GB back to FAT32 to put Windows 98SE back on. The security thing with XP does worry me a little, I did feel more secure with Windows 98SE. I am using the same older ZoneAlarm version on XP that I was using with Windows 98SE. Just a simple firewall and no bloat that came in later versions. I have a simple question for anyone using Ghost to do an image backup ... when you have 2 different partitions on a hard drive ... one NTFS and one FAT32 does Ghost just copy the whole hard drive image on one DVD or do you have to run Ghost separate for each partition (NTFS and FAT32)? Lots of things to figure out on this dual boot setup.

Again, I appreciate and probably others do also, all the information in your post. I would never have posted this "farewell" message if the WiFi worked on these Thinkpads. I can live with some shortcomings from Windows 98SE but I really want that WiFi to work most of the time. There is one "radical"solution that someone posted on another forum ... open up the notebook and permanently disable or remove the WiFI adapter and use my Netgear card. I really like the Netgear WiFi card better anyway ... seems to pick up more stronger signals since it is on the outside of the notebook ... but I want to try everything else first, including XP fully before I open up the notebook for WiFi removal surgery.

thanks,

Edited May 12, 2012 by duffy98

[dencorso]

The day I end up with no hardware whatsoever capable of running Win 9x will be the day I'll move my 9x to a virtual machine.

Hi dencorso,

Last call to stock up on Win98-compatible hardware, the shelves will be empty next year.

You bet I'm doing it already. Just bought a pair of never-used A7V600-X motherboards (I love those boards) for a trifle (DDR, no SATAII, who, but one of us, would want them?)!

@duffy98: Download and save Virtual PC 2004 SP1, while it's still available. It's one of the real pearls MS offers for free!