Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

[JorgeA]

Sony just Sega Saturn'd the Xbox One.

In English, please?

--JorgeA

http://kotaku.com/ps4-games-wont-have-many-of-the-restrictions-of-xbox-o-512477859

The PS4 Doesn't Have The Xbox One's DRM

PS4 will not put any restrictions on used games, Sony's PlayStation boss Jack Tretton said today. Gamers can buy PS4 games, trade them in, lend them to friends or keep them forever. Loud cheers. He was drawing several points of comparison, obviously, to the Xbox One.

The PS4 will also be 100$/€ cheaper than the Xbox One!

What a whooping for Microsoft.

Thanks for the explanation, Formfiller.

What threw me is that I didn't understand the reference to the Sega Saturn. (I'm not a gamer, not of the electronic kind anyway.)

But after a little reading, now it's clear.

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

From the Neowhiners thread:

I actually prefer installing games like Xbox one since the game agents can queue up matches and allow me to instantly switch games I'm playing. I don't care for the 24hr call home but I can't stand any requirement to have slow spinning media or disks to pkay. I want games, content and seem less experiences.

Good luck Sony, looks like you will need it.

---

Dude lets be honest, the [sony] presentation was absolute crap.

---

Microsoft says to developers: "It's up to you, how you want to handle used games."

Sony says to developers: "We don't care about you and what you want."

-----------------

They're reaching pretty far to find SOMEthing to criticize.

As for that first comment above, most of Microsoft's new product line all around is a "seem less" experience -- as in, it seems like less of an experience than before...

--JorgeA

Edited June 11, 2013 by JorgeA

[JorgeA]

Most retarded comparison I've ever read:

http://www.neowin.net/news/the-playstation-4-to-cost-399#comment-2231319

I don't know why playstation remind me of linux. Share everything for free. Then tell me how the hell the game maker is supposed to make money? Or you like games to be made in poor quality because you can share it?

ROFLCOPTER! These guys are so whacked, it's unbelievable. They compare buying games and be able to give them physically to your friend, or sell them, to Free Software?

Insane.

Yeah, I'll bet when he likes a book and talks about it with his friends, that guy buys new copies to give to them, instead of lending his own copy. If he even reads books.

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

By the numbers, IMHO there are four separate categories that Sony just Xboned Microsoft ...

• Price
  
• Used Games Friendly
  
• No Online Authentication
  
• Appearance
  

... They undercut them by $100 on Price, and those middle two: Used Games Friendly and No Online Authentication are absolute killers and means that Sony was actually listening to all the controversy swirling about lately while Microsoft played deaf and dumb.

That's the beauty of market competition! Sony isn't exactly guilt-free when it comes to DRM crap (remember the rootkit they put in some of their CDs about eight years ago?), but maybe they've learned their lesson, and in any case Microsoft's arrogant "my way or the highway" stance has given them a huge opening and they're driving right through it.

Almost makes me want to go out and buy a PS4 (when they come out) just to fatten up their sales numbers relative to the Xbox One's.

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

The ability to watch TV on XBox One is interesting, but it sounds more like its a Tivo without the recording feature.

That would be like a car without a transmission. You can turn on the engine and play the radio, but it won't go anywhere. Or maybe like a PC with no video output connection.

Thanks for the analysis, BTW.

--JorgeA

[Formfiller]

I suggest you to read-up my fight on Channel9 regarding the Xbox:

http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/E3-Smackdown

It's quite hilarious. Especially their arguments against second-hand games:

I can happily say that I've never shared a game or even bough or sold one second-hand. ....... The main reason I haven't bought or sold second hand is that I don't think in those terms. When I first saw a second hand game shop I thought about it and decided I wasn't going to do that. Just like I decided I was an atheist, but don't expect everyone to be an atheist.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Formfiller

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

With the Xbox 360, I never really liked the controller ...

Me too, but I just generally like keyboards as first choice. I still have a bunch of keyboards I heavily modified back in the day. Pulled off the "Windows" and extra keys, put handles on the sides, added LED's etc. I even have a couple where I pulled out the 1, 3, 7, 9 and surrounding keys from the "keypad" section leaving the arrow plus sign configuration.

Now for the PS4, I think Sony really killed at the presentation. The only part that was difficult was when the Japanese guy was talking. The console design was the real surprise I think. It reminds me a lot of the PS2, but then again it probably would have been a good design for the Xbox One instead. Since it kinda reminds me of the old Windows flag.

It is a good shape, the angles are a nice touch, kinda like an F-117 Stealth Fighter. Using the requisite automobile parlance, it is like comparing a Lamborghini with a Winnebago.

Naturally the aerodynamic effects or radar signature (*) will be difficult to measure in most living rooms, so we have to leave it at preferred taste. It is odd that so many Xbox MicroZealots are going out of their way in those threads to call it ugly. Subjective or not, I don't see how a plain square is "better looking" than a faceted one. Maybe they have Windows 8 flat GUI and squared Windows on their brain.

Overall, I really think that not being backwards compatible is a mistake for both consoles. They are basically saying that all that money you spent on their products over the years is now junk. They could have come up with some way to profit on used games. In fact, I think that the current gen (PS3/360) already have this method built in through DLC. Maybe I'm just too old fashioned when it comes to that. For me anyways, I just keep my old consoles (or buy them later) to play old games on, but I think in the grand scheme of things, most people aren't like that.

Agreed. Planned obsolescence is evil, especially when designed to make you buy stuff all over again. And those fanboys that have become brainwashed and cheer for and demand planned obsolescence are simply pathetic.

The best idea of all would not involve emulation, but some hard work. It could be done by adding a separate PowerPC chip to the motherboard or on a daughter-board ( add-in card ). If they really want to think outside the box a hybrid CPU could be fabbed having a PowerPC core on the Die or some other combination. In fact, such a development will probably come around when they add an ARM core to an x86 CPU, maybe 4 x x86 with 2 x ARM or similar. This would be very practical for developers and end-users, bridging the gap of the current choose-one-or-the-other mentality. One could imagine three or four different architectures on a CPU ( X86, PPC, ARM, Itanium ). Naturally this would then throw the ball right back at Microsoft and others to write a good operating system and software rather than trying to pick our hardware for us.

EDIT: (*) unlike on the Lamborghini, the angles on the F-117 have nothing to do with aerodynamics, but are all about shrinking the radar visibility.

Edited June 12, 2013 by CharlotteTheHarlot

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

That's the beauty of market competition! Sony isn't exactly guilt-free when it comes to DRM crap (remember the rootkit they put in some of their CDs about eight years ago?), but maybe they've learned their lesson, and in any case Microsoft's arrogant "my way or the highway" stance has given them a huge opening and they're driving right through it.

Good point. For many years I never would have thought of being this critical of Microsoft ( up until the Vista RTM ). At that time Sony was clearly the worst player in the PC universe and the rootkit scandal sealed the deal.

In fact, that sony DRM was really whacked by none other than Mark Russinovich of System Internals. See Sony, Rootkits and Digital Rights Management Gone Too Far from 2005.

That date really marks a period right before everything went upside down. Windows XP was obviously still King but the Vista betas were coming out. Microsoft hadn't yet turned to the darkside. Sony was nailed by Mark but correctly backtracked and removed it from the distribution media and also released a targeted scrubber for use on your PC to remove it's traces ( interesting story here too, the first one didn't work ). Then Sony turned against their so-called "vendor" who wrote that bit of code! Class action lawsuits and settlements and complete ridicule of their reputation was the price of this for Sony.

Was Microsoft noticing any of this? Maybe. Maybe not. When this went down, Microsoft was already working on the DRM for Vista, and as we just learned this week, were jumping in bed with the government. They also swallowed up System Internals around this time, which includes Mark, so now I seriously wonder if it was to shut him up or at least keep him busy while they proceeded with the new DRM schemes baked into the operating system, not to mention government spying, stuff that Mark might just notice. Today it's not that crazy a stretch of logic, although back then it never crossed my mind.

Mark had a followup to that Sony article called: More on Sony: Dangerous Decloaking Patch, EULAs and Phoning Home. Phoning home? EULAs? DRM? Are we still talking about Sony, or Microsoft and Windows, and Xbox now?

Needless to say, that pro-consumer innocent era ended when Microsoft eventually decided to attack their own user base in revenge for not loving Vista. The Mojave Experiment failed and that set the stage for everything since. Microsoft decided they had to try harder. Not at making a better product, but try harder at marketing it and ramming it down our throats and convincing us that we're doing it wrong. Maybe if they just pour more money into astroturfing it will work next time.

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

Now for something different:

http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/Hosting

Read Evildictaitor's posts there about the recent PRISM scandal. Truly enlightening (keep in mind that his posts reflect Microsoft's corporate line of thinking almost to the letter).

Wow. That dude is some piece of work. He is like the Devil's Advocate. No position is too untenable to argue for. Perfect employee for NuMicrosoft.

I know I've said it before but I don't know where you get the patience to deal with some of these types. I'm betting you either have a bunch of kids or are a elementary school teacher ( don't reply, especially these days, I don't need or want the information, but dealing with lots of kids might prepare one adequately for the lunacy in some of these forums )

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

By the numbers, IMHO there are four separate categories that Sony just Xboned Microsoft ...

• Price
  
• Used Games Friendly
  
• No Online Authentication
  
• Appearance
  

... They undercut them by $100 on Price, and those middle two: Used Games Friendly and No Online Authentication are absolute killers and means that Sony was actually listening to all the controversy swirling about lately while Microsoft played deaf and dumb.

That's the beauty of market competition! Sony isn't exactly guilt-free when it comes to DRM crap (remember the rootkit they put in some of their CDs about eight years ago?), but maybe they've learned their lesson, and in any case Microsoft's arrogant "my way or the highway" stance has given them a huge opening and they're driving right through it.

Almost makes me want to go out and buy a PS4 (when they come out) just to fatten up their sales numbers relative to the Xbox One's.

--JorgeA

Looks like they added another positive ...

Yoshida: 'PS4 is region free' [update] ( Joystiq 2013-06-11 )

E3 2013: PS4 will be region free; pre-orders now live ( NeoWin 2013-06-11 )

Which means that they are maintaining or slightly improving upon their previous stance on this. But it is another clear jab at restrictions in general.

In summary I guess it will mean that Microsoft will court developers that are DRM heavy and Sony will court those that are not. Or put another way, Microsoft is the DRM friendly system.

The ball is now in Microsoft's court. Just how badly will they mess this up? Right about now Ballmer has broken an office room full of chairs and I suspect we'll learn of their next epic fail shortly.

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

E3 audience offended by "rape joke" at Microsoft Xbox One event ( CBS News 2013-06-11 )

E3 2013: Microsoft apologizes for rape joke made during press conference ( NeoWin 2013-06-11 )

Okay, I have to defend them this time. This is CBS and a bunch of kooks on Twitter making a big mess out of nothing. Two people were playing a video game, male and female, and the audience is taking their back and forth banter seriously. Way too seriously. They are projecting all kinds of thoughts, including rape and misogyny into the gaming conversation.

In a way though, Microsoft managed to pull a fail out it anyway. Their first apology ( yes, there are two, and that always spells trouble ) was just fine. But then after these creepy onlookers projected their own deviant fantasies onto the two players in-game discussion, Microsoft came back again. This time throwing the guy overboard ...

"Yesterday, during the Xbox E3 briefing, one of our employees made an off the cuff and inappropriate comment while demoing 'Killer Instinct' with another employee. This comment was offensive and we apologize. At Microsoft, being open and respectful with others is central to our code of conduct and our values. Bullying and harassment of any kind is not condoned and is taken very seriously. We remain committed to make gaming fun for everyone, and in that effort, we must lead by example."

I honestly don't know who is dumber, the Softies or the perverted onlookers. They are playing a violent video game called "Killer Instinct" beating each other mercilessly and the comments are what they choose to notice?

EDIT: removed weird stray chars at end of post, added article

Edited June 12, 2013 by CharlotteTheHarlot

[JorgeA]

In fact, that sony DRM was really whacked by none other than Mark Russinovich of System Internals. See Sony, Rootkits and Digital Rights Management Gone Too Far from 2005.

Great find there! And also the follow-up a couple of paragraphs below.

I did not know that Sony had turned on the vendor who created the rootkit. Maybe they "saw the light," or maybe they realized which side their bread was buttered on, but whatever the reason I'm glad that they've come so far.

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

In summary I guess it will mean that Microsoft will court developers that are DRM heavy and Sony will court those that are not. Or put another way, Microsoft is the DRM friendly system.

That would be a very interesting experiment in market competition. Will gamers favor the greater flexibility of the less DRM-encumbered Sony platform, well enough to persuade developers to run the risk of "losing" additional sales because people can lend the games to each other? It's a give-and-take process. Both contestants have plenty of resources, and neither of them is a shrinking violet. We'll see what happens.

The ball is now in Microsoft's court. Just how badly will they mess this up? Right about now Ballmer has broken an office room full of chairs

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

Another big PC vendor advertises Windows 7 computers. From a recent Hewlett-Packard e-mail circular:

Desktop systems are featured next in the e-mail (not shown).

Note that the point is not that they're "still" selling Win7 systems: they've been doing that all along. The significant development is that they're now highlighting the fact. There is no mention of Windows 8 or Win8 PCs anywhere in the circular.

A couple of months ago, H-P sent out an ad telling customers that they still had some Windows 7 computers remaining. In the new ad there's no such hint that you'd better get yours soon before they run out.

Is there a crack in the Win8 dam, and is it getting bigger?

--JorgeA

Edited June 12, 2013 by JorgeA

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

This deserves to be displayed here ... Xbox One Game Setup Flowchart!

2021 x 1912 pixels, 477 KB ...

( image source )

Credit to an anonymous poster at TechBroil! The source article is at this blog post ...

Xbox One: The Internet shows us how we are all Xbone’d ( VentureBeat 2013-06-07 )

EDIT: extra comment ... I just noticed that stupid Opera is not supplying horizontal scrollbars within this "spoiler" for some reason. Bug report? Why bother. ~sigh~ Just paste the image URL into a blank tab and you will get the horizontal scrollbars

This is a very funny graphic actually. Everytime I look at it I find something new that cracks me up ... Has it been 24 hours? #dealwithit!

Edited June 12, 2013 by CharlotteTheHarlot